Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[timtamWB]

I would love if we could somehow poach Thompson from Essendon, the Geelong influence would be complete.

I wouldn't be against this, but I don't want someone like Clarko who would come in and change the place to fit him. I think Paul Roos would be a good fit, but would cost too much and I don't think he'd be interested.

I just don't want someone to undo all the work Macca has done, which is why someone like Bomber Thompson would be a good fit. But I don't really see any good options out there for us.

 

[josh the gent]

I think Dean Laidley or Neale Daniher would be ok a DOFs...

 

[_Mike_]

Eade got us into 3 prelim finals in a row, one of which we were very unlucky to lose. The teams we lost against were the dominant sides of the time. His game plan took us from no-where to be respected and feared by opponents.

Apologies, but success when speaking in terms of the AFL means day premierships.. Losing preliminary final after preliminary final means you just werent good enough.. Thats no where near success. The plan plan was a one trick pony with Eade and was easy to counter when it came to the crunch

Our side would have looked much different in Eade's last year and McCartney's first year with a fit Higgins, Williams and Cooney plus Harbrow and Ward. Taking 5 quality players out of a side hurts big time.

the 2012 side would have looked different regardless. 1 season of injuries for Higgins, Cooney and Williams isnt anything new.

We lost Ward and Harbrow before McCartney came along so Im not quite sure what your point with those two are

 

[_Mike_]

Please refrain from more coaching posts/McCartney posts. It is quite clear in the sticky that we will not tolerate multiple threads on the issue/topic

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

Apologies, but success when speaking in terms of the AFL means day premierships.. Losing preliminary final after preliminary final means you just werent good enough.. Thats no where near success.

Don't agree with you here, the seasons were successful and our game plan was successful. Unfortunately we were not quite good enough in 2008 & 2010 and in 2009 we were just damm unlucky. Only one side can win a premiership each year it doesn't make the other 17 unsuccessful.

What I strongly disagree with is people saying 1: we weren't a good defensively and 2: we weren't strong enough on contested ball. In 2008 Geelong kicked 83 points to win, in 2009 St Kilda kicked only 60 points to win and in 2010 St Kilda kicked 88 points to win. If you look at the games again they were all hard fought contested games where our inability to kick a winning score cost us.

Our style of play wasn't the issue we weren't quite good enough that's all.


the 2012 side would have looked different regardless. 1 season of injuries for Higgins, Cooney and Williams isnt anything new.

We lost Ward and Harbrow before McCartney came along so Im not quite sure what your point with those two are

My point is yes we needed to re-build, however circumstances beyond Eade's & McCartney's for that matter control, meant the re-build is more intensive than first envisaged.

 

[Toastman]

Thoughts I had after reading the Hearld Sun on Paul Roos and had for awhile.

The Dogs should get a director of coaching role from an experienced coach, regardless of how likely it is to happen. For example; Paul Roos may or may not end up at Melbourne or coaching at all. But you can't tell me when a person of his status being a former player and Premiership coach has the possibility of returning to that caper it would hurt to offer his services and wouldn't strengthen the club especially on match day. He would also be able to keep the media jobs too. But this is just one example. John Worsfold thinks he will quit at seasons end, Kevin Sheedy, Mark Williams and even Gary Ayres are other options that could fit this role.

The Dogs should be stronger and more ruthless to get everything in place that they can to develop our side. From trading, drafting and personnel. Macca is only at his second year at coaching at the highest level in one of the most toughest times for the club and supporters going through a another rebuild, one with dysfunctional forward line. We all should know hes a good teacher but perhaps would benefit an experienced body during match day. Cooney as a loose back? High possession game on the weekend played right into Collingwoods hands instead of a scrap from the start which eventually happened. Differentially wasn't the right tactical move as the break + Pies on Monday we were going to run it out better we just had to be in it. That's just one game, but one that could have benefited with an experience coach against a top team. Also there's the management help of list players.

When Macca was on 360 a few weeks back he said he talks to Thompson about players and tactics sometimes. Why shouldn't the club have someone like that at the club itself of higher experience? Thompson and Eade are at Essendon and Collingwood respectively and are both top end teams with great developing youngsters ready to come in to ease. I think it was a mistake for Eade to go completely at the end of 2011, he should of stayed as the job he has at Collingwood at at our club. I do think bringing people like Mooney and Scarlet down there is a good thing and starting point. But we need more experience and/or premiership people in our club especially when building a team again.

I'm not suggesting we would be in finals now or anything if we did. I do think it would fast track our rebuild and the way our players are aiming to play under Macca. I think it is a good discussion point.

I assume your offering to cough up the million or so a season to get one of these guys for the position? Why do you think it is Essendon and Collingwood who have these guys? It all comes down to the money and we don't have it.

 

[doggies ftw]

Agree we should target an experienced coach for a "director of coaching" role, come on Gordon you said you want to pay up heres your chance!

On a side not, if Macca doesn't last maybe we could target Holger? Genius!

 

[the dog's kennel]

When Macca was on 360 a few weeks back he said he talks to Thompson about players and tactics sometimes. Why shouldn't the club have someone like that at the club itself of higher experience? Thompson and Eade are at Essendon and Collingwood respectively and are both top end teams with great developing youngsters ready to come in to ease. I think it was a mistake for Eade to go completely at the end of 2011, he should of stayed as the job he has at Collingwood at at our club. I do think bringing people like Mooney and Scarlet down there is a good thing and starting point. But we need more experience and/or premiership people in our club especially when building a team again.

Someone like Eade as a Senior Assistant would be awesome if we could afford it. However, I don't think Eade himself would have been a good fit.

Too hard to expect someone to help out after being effectively sacked. Ask malthouse. Not to mention you want someone with a completely fresh perspective rather than the same dude who ws already there.

But I would recommend Eade to any other club, and an Eade-like statesman would be excellent if we could get hold of one.

 

[Proffessor]

We need a good experienced coach to replace McCartney, not guide him.

 

[Proffessor]

Apologies, but success when speaking in terms of the AFL means day premierships.. Losing preliminary final after preliminary final means you just werent good enough.. Thats no where near success. The plan plan was a one trick pony with Eade and was easy to counter when it came to the crunch

I disagree. Making preliminary finals and losing some by close margins was getting close to the ultimate success. It is also fairly noteworthy that it was achieved with one of the smallest football department budgets in the league.

On the other hand, winning only 8 out of 33 games under McCartney is clearly nowhere near success.

The talk about us playing a brand of football that will hold up better in finals is nothing but empty rhetoric. Our current style of play doesn't seem to hold up in the regular season games, let alone finals.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Prelims are no where near success but you really tell by the way we play, selections and the coaches words that success is the only outcome possible.

 

[_Mike_]

I disagree. Making preliminary finals and losing some by close margins was getting close to the ultimate success. It is also fairly noteworthy that it was achieved with one of the smallest football department budgets in the league.

On the other hand, winning only 8 out of 33 games under McCartney is clearly nowhere near success.

In the real world, coming close isnt good enough. People remember our club as the struggling club with 1 flag to show for its endeavours.. No one is going to care or remember that we came close 7 times to making a GF.. Its simply just not good enough. Before this club will ever see another day flag it must go through a culture change. That has been the biggest problem with why this club hasnt reached the ultimate success

In comparison, Ive never stated that McCartney's game plan is successful, merely that with the amount of changes, personnel and playing focus its a little difficult to guage now until he's run his contract so we can see where he got the club in 3 years

 

[Nath09]

Can anyone tell me who the first club to install a "director of coaching" was?

This seems to me to be a bit of a trend and i struggle to see how achieves anything other than to undermine the head coach.

 

[ErnieSigley]

In the real world, coming close isnt good enough. People remember our club as the struggling club with 1 flag to show for its endeavours.. No one is going to care or remember that we came close 7 times to making a GF.. Its simply just not good enough. Before this club will ever see another day flag it must go through a culture change. That has been the biggest problem with why this club hasnt reached the ultimate success

In comparison, Ive never stated that McCartney's game plan is successful, merely that with the amount of changes, personnel and playing focus its a little difficult to guage now until he's run his contract so we can see where he got the club in 3 years

So it's blind faith that's makes you believe we achieve the ultimate success under Bmac.
If you just believe that his methods and plan is right we will get there even though there is little to no evidence of progress just yet.
As yes this the first coach we have ever had to have a plan for success and it obvious it going to work. The rest were just bluffing.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

We need a good experienced coach to replace McCartney, not guide him.

Sure do.

Can we also get this "new coach" to bring in players like Johnson, Lake, Hall, Aka, Gilbee, Hargrave, younger versions of Cross, Boyd, Murphy and Gia? Might even get him to bring someone like Scott Welsh to back up our forward line...and while we're at it, can we pick up Franklin as a free agent and maybe a couple of the top end kids from GWS?


Nah, I'm being silly now. Let's just sack the coach instead. That'll get the job done on its own..

 

[ErnieSigley]

Can anyone tell me who the first club to install a "director of coaching" was?

This seems to me to be a bit of a trend and i struggle to see how achieves anything other than to undermine the head coach.

It will undermine Bmac because it will only prove the director is better than him at coaching. Different if it was a young rookie coach where it will complement his style. As a sounding board-fine and as senior tactician-undermine.

 

[Igloo]

So it's blind faith that's makes you believe we achieve the ultimate success under Bmac.
If you just believe that his methods and plan is right we will get there even though there is little to no evidence of progress just yet.
As yes this the first coach we have ever had to have a plan for success and it obvious it going to work. The rest were just bluffing.

It's called patience, Ernie.

You wait until you can make a definitive, or close to definitive call on his coaching ability. Not after a year and a half. Especially with the age profile and depth of our list.

 

[dogbyte]

Someone like Eade as a Senior Assistant would be awesome if we could afford it. However, I don't think Eade himself would have been a good fit.

Too hard to expect someone to help out after being effectively sacked. Ask malthouse. Not to mention you want someone with a completely fresh perspective rather than the same dude who ws already there.

But I would recommend Eade to any other club, and an Eade-like statesman would be excellent if we could get hold of one.

Just bring back Eade, before Melbourne grab him.

Admit it was a bad mistake to replace him and we have the chance to set it right.

 

[TedDougChris]

It's called patience, Ernie.

You wait until you can make a definitive, or close to definitive call on his coaching ability. Not after a year and a half. Especially with the age profile and depth of our list.

Thats just rubbish. Clearly the way forward is based around half-baked, ill conceived decision making formed upon gut feel, instinct and 'i don't like the bloke-isms'....

 

[ErnieSigley]

It's called patience, Ernie.

You wait until you can make a definitive, or close to definitive call on his coaching ability. Not after a year and a half. Especially with the age profile and depth of our list.

Patience - yes right we haven't had that as bulldog fans.
Again little to no evidence.
Faith and that's all it is.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Thats just rubbish. Clearly the way forward is based around half-baked, ill conceived decision making formed upon gut feel, instinct and 'i don't like the bloke-isms'....

Gut feel? Whilst there is little to no evidence that we are moving forward. Almost every week we are given examples of a guy that is out of depth.

 

[Igloo]

Patience - yes right we haven't had that as bulldog fans.
Again little to no evidence.
Faith and that's all it is.

The current regime has nothing to do with previous ones. Just because we've had to wait, it doesn't mean we'll never have to again .

It's not faith. I'm not saying he will win us a premiership. But you don't sack a guy after a year and a half when he has inherited a list that was in obvious need of repair.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Just bring back Eade, before Melbourne grab him.

Admit it was a bad mistake to replace him and we have the chance to set it right.

wow, really?, Fitzroy will return as a club before that ever happens. Go easy on the shrooms bro.

 

[_Mike_]

So it's blind faith that's makes you believe we achieve the ultimate success under Bmac.
If you just believe that his methods and plan is right we will get there even though there is little to no evidence of progress just yet.
As yes this the first coach we have ever had to have a plan for success and it obvious it going to work. The rest were just bluffing.

You're clearly having trouble understanding my post. Let me reiterate for you

Eades game plan ran its course, and couldn't deliver the ultimate success. Based on that have you automatically assumed that I'm pro McCartney?

My opinion was that I would prefer to let the coach complete his first contract and then see where the club was at after 3 years to determine if the club was going in the right direction.

I have stated previously that I perceive some of his decisions on match ups and positions to be poor. Ive never stated either way that we will or wont reach success under BMAC, rather I'm more patient to be able to wait out the first contract

So please, save the rhetoric you've splurged out regarding what you perceive my opinions are.

 

[KDF67]

Gut feel? Whilst there is little to no evidence that we are moving forward. Almost every week we are given examples of a guy that is out of depth.

We lost against Collingwood, they got the four points. But we won in other ways. We actually won the second half on the scoreboard, and we got glimpses of the team we can be if our development of exciting young players continues. Michael Talia was outstanding; I think the coach might have had something to do with that. My understanding is that Micka's development is just the sort of thing Macca was brought in to do, and just the sort of thing he pitched himself to the board as being able to do. There is a bigger picture here than what you see on the scoreboard; sometimes it's better to leave the magnets where they are so you can teach something. I have an inkling that the chess moves will be introduced a bit more when the group starts to click with the game plan and individuals start to demonstrate their ability to play outside their comfort zones. My view is that far from "Almost every week we are given examples of a guy that is out of (his) depth", that we are seeing almost every week evidence of someone who is slowly developing a group and a playing style that, with time, will stand up to the best in the competition. Perhaps being in the big chair is throwing up a few game day challenges to Macca when it comes to tactics, but he's got Kingy, Shagger, Bubba and, especially, Monty there to give help, if he needs it. Together, I'm confident they all know more about where the magnets should go than any of us. I agree with Mike2009, "let the coach complete his first contract and then see where the club was at after 3 years to determine if the club was going in the right direction".