List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[Calcium Man]

That would make sense for GWS but not from our POV. We somewhat have the upper hand in the Taranto deal with him being OOC and GWS facing a cap squeeze. Only really makes sense if like Rioli2Rioli suggest that GWS need the picks to help them to do other deals which in turn we will get Hopper plus some late second/ early third rounders in a latter deal which the framework of what we are giving up has already been agreed upon and we are waiting to see what we can back from GWS once they done some other deals. For example we might give future first plus 30 for Hopper and 39 via Collingwood/Geelong (Henry deal) and 40.

I think it makes sense from our POV, we get some brownie points with GWS by allowing them to posture. We’ve done this stuff before but in slightly different circumstances when Dusty re-signed and Jack this year for an extra year. Let them push their brand and we get some good will plus the deal we want.

 

[prodigy]

If it is 12 and 19, im hoping we get a future second back.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I just want to see the Tarantula in a tigers jumper at Punt Road this week and then the Grasshopper the following week ( yes that will be next week, AFL probably told gws to hold out for last day drama )

 

[Rich01]

Pretty much the expectation on his value wasn’t it?

12, 19, 30 and future first was the general consensus for both. If we get anything back that’s a bonus.

 

[Morro]

The deals are seperate as we are still trying to make some moves ourselves and we know what they want.

 

[prodigy]

The deals are seperate as we are still trying to make some moves ourselves and we know what they want.

I reckon you're on the money.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Don't we have them over a barrel though? They either get rid of the players or they blow the cap? Would've thought we'd be paying minimum fair compensation not bending over backwards. I want both players big time so I'm not really that concerned but we always seem to have to play the white knights.

 

[tigers12]

I just want to see this thread get to 1000 pages and I will be happy

 

[RockJobster0312]

That would make sense for GWS but not from our POV. We somewhat have the upper hand in the Taranto deal with him being OOC and GWS facing a cap squeeze. Only really makes sense if like Rioli2Rioli suggest that GWS need the picks to help them to do other deals which in turn we will get Hopper plus some late second/ early third rounders in a latter deal which the framework of what we are giving up has already been agreed upon and we are waiting to see what we can back from GWS once they done some other deals. For example we might give future first plus 30 for Hopper and 39 via Collingwood/Geelong (Henry deal) and 40.

Other thing I would add is that it’s a very common negotiation tactic to create good will early in a difficult deal/ difficult trading partner by agreeing to something early.

Noting some of the difficulties that other teams have had with dealing with GWS (Cameron deal, Hill deal to Essendon last year) wouldn’t be surprised if that’s also an element (on top of folding the deal into others).

I’m all for trading the right way and being amicable but there is a time to dig you heals in.
We did that with Higgins and CCJ, we did not with Geelong when they picked up Holmes, we should of forced a second too since they were so keen.
I’m not going to judge the latest reports until it’s done either as I’m expecting GWS to give us some throw away current and future thirds, maybe a late second.

Not sure this is the time to dig out heals in. We are the ones who have convinced Taranto and Hopper to come to our club so the onus is on us to facilitate the deal and satisfy GWS to get them over the line.

Re: Max Holmes and forcing a second from Geelong. Every team has a price. Take last year, we were aggressive in trying to move some of our picks for additional capital but the asking price was too great for teams wanting to trade in (it was for the majority of the night), and so no deal got done (again across the first and second rounds for the night despite so many teams looking to come in).

You can ask for additional incentives all you want, but if you ask too much you risk not getting a deal over the line and are forced to use a pick. We didn’t rate anyone at that pick that didn’t justify adding another first in 2021.

 

[RockJobster0312]

Don't we have them over a barrel though? They either get rid of the players or they blow the cap? Would've thought we'd be paying minimum fair compensation not bending over backwards. I want both players big time so I'm not really that concerned but we always seem to have to play the white knights.

This isn’t a salary dump for GWS. Yes the need to shed salary, and yes this helps it, but they aren’t packaging a high draft pick or paying some salary (e.g. Bowes and Grundy) to force a move.

It’s been well documented that GWS preference is to keep Taranto and has two deals on the table, a 2 year deal (to see through to free agency) and a 4 year deal (assume that’s to back-end a contract where they have space).

 

[Calcium Man]

Don't we have them over a barrel though? They either get rid of the players or they blow the cap? Would've thought we'd be paying minimum fair compensation not bending over backwards. I want both players big time so I'm not really that concerned but we always seem to have to play the white knights.

Like Norf had us over a barrel with CCJ out of contract and threat of PSD.

The best clubs keep proving over and over again it’s not about winning trades (especially in the eyes of the general public and media), it’s about satisfying everyone. I would assume Taranto and Hopper want GWS adequately compensated, just as CCJ wanted us compensated.

And next time a player we want is available they’ll know we will get the deal done unlike say a Dodoro.

 

[zakazano]

Not sure how/why the Taranto deal would be agreed without the Hopper deal also being agreed at the same time. Makes no sense that it would be two seperate packages.

uncontracted & contracted - the latter might take a while with other dealings to get the right hand of picks &/or players to seal it. And if that keeps GWS sweet so they can get other deals done early, that may work in our favour.

 

[avengers]

If the deal for Taranto is put in tomorrow, that’s great by both clubs and hopefully hoppers deal isn’t to far behind! Early positive talks between two clubs for a gun player doesn’t happen enough! I doubt the media will report how well it is because they live off speculation for the weeks leading up to the next 10 days! Just shows the trade period should be 3 days max.

 

[Roksman]

If the deal for Taranto is put in tomorrow, that’s great by both clubs and hopefully hoppers deal isn’t to far behind! Early positive talks between two clubs for a gun player doesn’t happen enough! I doubt the media will report how well it is because they live off speculation for the weeks leading up to the next 10 days! Just shows the trade period should be 3 days max.

Also helps when a club is run professionally without ego-maniacs like Dodoro and Bell.

We walk away with 2 genuine gun midfielders who are ready to go.

We hit the draft hard last season as this is was all part of the plan. Elite list management.

 

[GoTigers2015]

It has been reported that we will give up 12 & 19 to GWS for TT and a future pick.

If we have weaker draft hand for this year, there is more chance that we keep Stacky as he has to be elevated to the senior list.

 

[captain cotch 9]

It has been reported that we will give up 12 & 19 to GWS for TT and a future pick.

If we have weaker draft hand for this year, there is more chance that we keep Stacky as he has to be elevated to the senior list.

And Biggie

 

[Yappie dribbles]

Acres to carlton for a future 3rd

 

[jthanos]

We do the right thing by other clubs, the Player Agents will always prefer Richmond as destination clubs.

 

[captain cotch 9]

Maybe Soldo will be involved in the Hopper deal

 

[Funky Chicken]

Also helps when a club is run professionally without ego-maniacs like Dodoro and Bell.

We walk away with 2 genuine gun midfielders who are ready to go.

We hit the draft hard last season as this is was all part of the plan. Elite list management.

You seem to have your pulse on our Croatian players, Roks.

Any truth to Ivan going, or is this just BigFooty horseshit?

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

I think it makes sense from our POV, we get some brownie points with GWS by allowing them to posture. We’ve done this stuff before but in slightly different circumstances when Dusty re-signed and Jack this year for an extra year. Let them push their brand and we get some good will plus the deal we want.

I would say that they're significantly different circumstances. There was incentive to allow Jack and Dusty to announce extensions on their own terms. The same doesn't really apply here.

Pretty much the expectation on his value wasn’t it?

12, 19, 30 and future first was the general consensus for both. If we get anything back that’s a bonus.

That might be what they're worth given age and talent but it lacks the context of why they're leaving. There is a reason why both players are being allowed to leave GWS and it boils down to them not being able to offer them then contracts they deserve given they already have Cogs, Whitfield and Kelly on 1m or thereabouts each, pay another 1.5m on Hopper and Tarranto and thats 4.5m or thereabouts on 5 players.

The deals are seperate as we are still trying to make some moves ourselves and we know what they want.

Makes no sense. If we want to make other moves then that will only dilute what assets we have to use in the Hopper deal which GWS wouldn't agree to.

Don't we have them over a barrel though? They either get rid of the players or they blow the cap? Would've thought we'd be paying minimum fair compensation not bending over backwards. I want both players big time so I'm not really that concerned but we always seem to have to play the white knights.

We're not the white knights our fans make us out to be. We are fair and probably the most reasonable team to deal with but a lot of that is by virtue of having little wriggle room (salary space) to dig our heals in at the trade table. Can't dig your heals in for players who are borderline best 22 or on the fringes when an opposition club is offering twice the wage and the player is either OOC or got a year left on his deal.

This isn’t a salary dump for GWS. Yes the need to shed salary, and yes this helps it, but they aren’t packaging a high draft pick or paying some salary (e.g. Bowes and Grundy) to force a move.

It’s been well documented that GWS preference is to keep Taranto and has two deals on the table, a 2 year deal (to see through to free agency) and a 4 year deal (assume that’s to back-end a contract where they have space).

It's not a salary dump but they backed themselves into a corner with their list management and have to rectify it, which doesn't hurt their bargaining power to the extent that a salary dump does but it does still limit it.

A I said above they can't afford to pay 5 midfielders a collective 4.5m a season, probably 5.5m if you factor in Toby Greene. With another 5-700k for Tom Green. That's a lot of money for a midfield that doesn't have an AFL quality ruck, with arguably the worst collection of KPP of any list.

Something has to give and they know it. They supposedly tried getting rid of Coniglio last season but couldn't find any takers, so now it's the guys they probably prefer to keep in Taranto and Hopper who have to make way.

We won't bend GWS over and likewise if they don't like our offer they will tell us to shove it and rectify the issue next off season (at least with Hopper) but the more picks GWS get the less valuable they come so we also have some extra bargaining power there.

 

[Roksman]

Acres to carlton for a future 3rd

Oh no.

Meanwhile we paid less for kmac and Pickett who are better wingers.

 

[Roksman]

You seem to have your pulse on our Croatian players, Roks.

Any truth to Ivan going, or is this just BigFooty horseshit?

I can't say categorically as I honestly don't know but there's smoke with this one as he is from Canberra.

I know for a fact they came hard for him after the 2019 Grand Final but haven't heard anything since. He's obviously very tight with Noah and Ivan (Also Mate) which will be a factor but if they offer him the right coin, I can see this one happening - but if you were GWS, would you really be offering Soldo big money? I wouldn't.

Which is why I've always thought he'd stay, because I don't think any club would offer him "big" money.

 

[tugga]

I just want to take this time to thank lolnorf for giving us Taranto

 

[Groupie_]