List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 7

[Lore]

Hello Tiger fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

tugga you may like to sticky or merge this post, move it to the start of the thread (so the sticky post doesn't rotate if a post is deleted before it), or copy it to your draft thread.

 

[KinderSmock]

As a Maggies supporter you're probably aware of the role his dad Craig "Tickets" Ginnivan plays in his son's sporting career. And I doubt Tickets would be approving of any move. He'd just get on the piss and lose his s**t at McRae like he used to with Bucks when he never gave Jack a game. Or at the refs whenever Jack got a foul called against him in junior basketball, before getting booted out of the stadium again

Haven't heard much about Ginnivan senior but interesting.

 

[Bojangles17]

Even if true, you can draft these types later in the draft. Unless you want a Shai Bolton type hybrid.

So what Collingwood will want for Ginnivan is not worth giving up.

Correct, they’d want our r2 , fk that , we should be able to get a decent kid Reid or jvr brudda

 

[Bojangles17]

As a Maggies supporter you're probably aware of the role his dad Craig "Tickets" Ginnivan plays in his son's sporting career. And I doubt Tickets would be approving of any move. He'd just get on the piss and lose his s**t at McRae like he used to with Bucks when he never gave Jack a game. Or at the refs whenever Jack got a foul called against him in junior basketball, before getting booted out of the stadium again

Good , I don’t want us using precious collateral on a 5”8 player

 

[NZ_Tiger]

People will see everything through yellow and black lenses.

Brown whilst ok against Port in his only AFL game had moments of utter shambles when heat was turned on.

The same people who dont comment on those moments want to stick the knife into a 19 year old KPF playing in a final. The guy is playing KF for a top 4 side. Needing to hold the whole line down. If that was a young Richmond player, can you imagine the talk?

We took a back flanker over a much needed KPF. It was a mistake.

Now we are arguing who we need to bring in desperately, Tabaner or Koschitzke for crying out loud. Absolutely shambolic list management.

Regardless of the merits of both players. At that point a back flanker over a kpf prospect was dumb. Even dumber when you consider our lack of talls. The list is loaded with flankers, especially didn’t need one with a poor tank and average speed.


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[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Ginnivan would be in our top 10 players. Would be great to have him but I assume we’d need to trade a future based on our current draft haul


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[richoplzbreed]

No one wants to admit it for whatever reason but Ginnivan would immediately be our best small forward by the length of the Flemington straight. We've got Mansell trying to impersonate a small forward, MRJ can't get a kick much less a goal, Coulthard's cameo sub debut was impressive but reality is he only kicked 1 goal in 4 senior games and then didn't do much in his final few Magoo's games. It's not far fetched for all of Mansell, MRJ and Coulthard to be goneski by end of 2024!

We rely on goals from Dusty, Bolton, Taranto, Short too much. We've had too many passengers up forward like Graham, Miller and Cotchin. Simple fact is we need forwards who can actually deliver. Adding Lynch, Cumbo and Ginnivan to our forward line next year completely changes it.

 

[Tiger1974]

Ginnivan would be in our top 10 players. Would be great to have him but I assume we’d need to trade a future based on our current draft haul


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LOL x 100

 

[Karp3_dm]

No one wants to admit it for whatever reason but Ginnivan would immediately be our best small forward by the length of the Flemington straight. We've got Mansell trying to impersonate a small forward, MRJ can't get a kick much less a goal, Coulthard's cameo sub debut was impressive but reality is he only kicked 1 goal in 4 senior games and then didn't do much in his final few Magoo's games. It's not far fetched for all of Mansell, MRJ and Coulthard to be goneski by end of 2024!

We rely on goals from Dusty, Bolton, Taranto, Short too much. We've had too many passengers up forward like Graham, Miller and Cotchin. Simple fact is we need forwards who can actually deliver. Adding Lynch, Cumbo and Ginnivan to our forward line next year completely changes it.

He might be a good player but not having that squib wear the yellow and black

 

[blaisee]

Haven't heard much about Ginnivan senior but interesting.

sounds like Higgins dad

 

[Noidnadroj]

People will see everything through yellow and black lenses.

Brown whilst ok against Port in his only AFL game had moments of utter shambles when heat was turned on.

The same people who dont comment on those moments want to stick the knife into a 19 year old KPF playing in a final. The guy is playing KF for a top 4 side. Needing to hold the whole line down. If that was a young Richmond player, can you imagine the talk?

We took a back flanker over a much needed KPF. It was a mistake.

Now we are arguing who we need to bring in desperately, Tabaner or Koschitzke for crying out loud. Absolutely shambolic list management.

So let me unpack this. Tom Brown has played one game of football. One. He showed some promising signs and had a couple of moments he’d want back - gee, how terrible from a debutant playing in hostile territory against a top-4 team. But after a single game you’re labelling his drafting a list management mistake ? I’d be inclined to make sweeping assessments after Brown plays two games at least.

Tom Brown might turn into Tom Stewart and JVR might end up a mediocre KPF … who bloody knows?


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[KinderSmock]

No one wants to admit it for whatever reason but Ginnivan would immediately be our best small forward by the length of the Flemington straight. We've got Mansell trying to impersonate a small forward, MRJ can't get a kick much less a goal, Coulthard's cameo sub debut was impressive but reality is he only kicked 1 goal in 4 senior games and then didn't do much in his final few Magoo's games. It's not far fetched for all of Mansell, MRJ and Coulthard to be goneski by end of 2024!

We rely on goals from Dusty, Bolton, Taranto, Short too much. We've had too many passengers up forward like Graham, Miller and Cotchin. Simple fact is we need forwards who can actually deliver. Adding Lynch, Cumbo and Ginnivan to our forward line next year completely changes it.

The interesting thing about Ginnivan is we don't use him as a small. He's more a medium and plays taller than Bobby or Jamie but shorter than Mihocek, McStay, etc. He's 185cm and I know that's not massive in the modern game but it's a long way off "small forward" territory.

 

[KinderSmock]

Ginnivan would be in our top 10 players. Would be great to have him but I assume we’d need to trade a future based on our current draft haul


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Given he's under contract, I seriously doubt Collingwood would let him leave for anything less than a high first rounder.

 

[domin8]

So let me unpack this. Tom Brown has played one game of football. One. He showed some promising signs and had a couple of moments he’d want back - gee, how terrible from a debutant playing in hostile territory against a top-4 team. But after a single game you’re labelling his drafting a list management mistake ? I’d be inclined to make sweeping assessments after Brown plays two games at least.

Tom Brown might turn into Tom Stewart and JVR might end up a mediocre KPF … who bloody knows?


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You’re arguing with the list manager here. He knows a thing or 2 about football

 

[Tigerbob]

You’re arguing with the list manager here. He knows a thing or 2 about football

You are a petty, little man. Hilarious.

 

[domin8]

You are a petty, little man. Hilarious.

You are full of shit

 

[Tigerbob]

So let me unpack this. Tom Brown has played one game of football. One. He showed some promising signs and had a couple of moments he’d want back - gee, how terrible from a debutant playing in hostile territory against a top-4 team. But after a single game you’re labelling his drafting a list management mistake ? I’d be inclined to make sweeping assessments after Brown plays two games at least.

Tom Brown might turn into Tom Stewart and JVR might end up a mediocre KPF … who bloody knows?


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Hey genius, the list management mistake I’m talking about is not looking after our KPF stock.

I stated it’s not necessarily about Brown vs JvR. It’s our guys have neglected the inevitable and now we are up shits creek without a paddle, hoping Lynch at 30 remains fit and trading in the likes of Koschitzke and Tabener.

Brown was a reach at the time. Let’s see if it was worth it down the track.

He’s also played one game of footy. JvR seems to be getting stick and he’s been a key forward for a top 4 team and if he was doing that for us, the likes of you would be calling him the next Carey.

 

[Tigerbob]

You are full of s**t

It must hurt that you know **** all about the game.

 

[Noidnadroj]

The problem isn’t necessarily Brown over JvR but the lack of list management to look after the known end of Jack and the aging Lynch which has heightened with injury.

There’s been no foresight in this despite being told our guys have a lab making these long term decisions.

We recruited Gibcus for KPD. Do we turn him into a KPF now? Balta? Or do we turn to Koschitzke or Tabener?

It’s decisons that should have been made years ago. We should of had a young KPF in the VFL to take over by now.

Too many unknowns with our list. Are we trying to contend or rebuild? It’s a bit of a mess. Can it be turned around? Absolutely, but we need smarter decisions to be made.

Getting quality KPF’s in the draft is very hard. You talk like we haven’t tried to develop a KPF of a Jack replacement:

2006: Jack (13)
2008: Vickery (8)
2009: Griffiths (19)
Astbury: (35 - yes, played lots of forward as a junior)
2011: Todd Elton (26)
2012: Liam McBean (33)
2014: Reece McKenzie (77)
2015: Callum Moore and Chol (both rookies)
2017: CCJ (20) and Balta (25 - Balta was a forward and defender as a junior)
2019: Lynch as FA
2020: Samson Ryan (40)
2022: Bauer (mid-season) and Bradtke

So not including Lynch we’ve utilised 8 x top-40 picks plus some other selections looking for a KPF …. Yet we talk as though we haven’t been trying to find a replacement. So why does anyone think if we had have used ‘just one more’ we’d have nailed it when we had the 5 x top-30 picks a couple of years back ? Because there’s 1 x guy we had access to and bypassed (as almost all other teams did also). You can’t be a hindsight hero with drafting.

It’s no wonder we stopped burning quality picks on KPF options when we’d failed in our last 12-13 attempts to draft a quality KPF.

It’s nowhere near as simple as “we missed JVR so why on earth haven’t we been planning for a KPF replacement?” We’ve been trying - and failing at every turn.

And finally … let’s say we did find a KPF ‘gun’ 5-years ago… what then? Don’t get in Lynch or have them play VFL behind Jack and Lynch for 4-years from 2019-2022?? Players as crap as a Chol and CCJ left for opportunity, so a high quality KPF would have been a waste anyway.


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[Tigerbob]

Getting quality KPF’s in the draft is very hard. You talk like we haven’t tried to develop a KPF of a Jack replacement:

2006: Jack (13)
2008: Vickery (8)
2009: Griffiths (19)
Astbury: (35 - yes, played lots of forward as a junior)
2011: Todd Elton (26)
2012: Liam McBean (33)
2014: Reece McKenzie (77)
2015: Callum Moore and Chol (both rookies)
2017: CCJ (20) and Balta (25 - Balta was a forward and defender as a junior)
2019: Lynch as FA
2020: Samson Ryan (40)
2022: Bauer (mid-season) and Bradtke

So not including Lynch we’ve utilised 8 x top-40 picks plus some other selections looking for a KPF …. Yet we talk as though we haven’t been trying to find a replacement. So why does anyone think if we had have used ‘just one more’ we’d have nailed it when we had the 5 x top-30 picks a couple of years back ? Because there’s 1 x guy we had access to and bypassed (as almost all other teams did also). You can’t be a hindsight hero with drafting.

It’s no wonder we stopped burning quality picks on KPF options when we’d failed in our last 12-13 attempts to draft a quality KPF.

It’s nowhere near as simple as “we missed JVR so why on earth haven’t we been planning for a KPF replacement?” We’ve been trying - and failing at every turn.

And finally … let’s say we did find a KPF ‘gun’ 5-years ago… what then? Don’t get in Lynch or have them play VFL behind Jack and Lynch for 4-years from 2019-2022?? Players as crap as a Chol and CCJ left for opportunity, so a high quality KPF would have been a waste anyway.


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So it’s dud recruiting then? As I have also been saying.

So since we got Lynch, we’ve drafted in Samson Ryan (a pure ruck not a KF), Bauer a mid season pick and Bradtke a Hail Mary SSP pick and you say, they’ve been trying?

Wouldn’t you think knowing Jack had only a few years left and Lynch the only other known forward you’d want that to be different? In particular when both Chol and CCJ up and left?

To me you just validated my point. Club has been complacent and failed to plan. Arrogance more than anything.

 

[Truetiger]

Given he's under contract, I seriously doubt Collingwood would let him leave for anything less than a high first rounder.

For someone not in our 22. Interesting.

 

[domin8]

It must hurt that you know * all about the game.

I know plenty.
I’m not running around telling everyone I was a list manager then continue to post absolute tripe

 

[Tigerbob]

I know plenty.
I’m not running around telling everyone I was a list manager then continue to post absolute tripe

You know **** all.

Plus you don’t know me.

 

[Roksman]

Thread going well I see.

 

[domin8]

You know * all.

Plus you don’t know me.

As you don’t know me. So chuck me on ignore pal. Because I’ll keep calling out your shit.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Hey genius, the list management mistake I’m talking about is not looking after our KPF stock.

I stated it’s not necessarily about Brown vs JvR. It’s our guys have neglected the inevitable and now we are up shits creek without a paddle, hoping Lynch at 30 remains fit and trading in the likes of Koschitzke and Tabener.

Brown was a reach at the time. Let’s see if it was worth it down the track.

He’s also played one game of footy. JvR seems to be getting stick and he’s been a key forward for a top 4 team and if he was doing that for us, the likes of you would be calling him the next Carey.

I’ve just posted about a dozen attempts we’ve made to draft a KPF over the last decade. We haven’t neglected anything … we’ve just failed to land a quality KPF, and a couple of ones that showed promise (Chol and CCJ) left for opportunity.

And Brown wasn’t a reach. Most Phantom drafts (ESPN, FoxSports) had him going to Sydney at #18.


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