List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 7

[Lore]

Hello Tiger fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

tugga you may like to sticky or merge this post, move it to the start of the thread (so the sticky post doesn't rotate if a post is deleted before it), or copy it to your draft thread.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Why are we looking? Or as the pic shows...NOt looking .

we don't need late mature players, we need kids at similar ages to grow into the next premiership team.

There are none tho. We at least didn't try to get any in trade week.

I see Naismith as a pretty worthless backup & VFL presence but thats about it. He Is Ben Marsh, Trent Knoblel - a grown man who can play ruck at VFL level & barely AFL level sometimes.

Its a pretty uninspiring pick for sure, but i guess one that was needed after Soldo left. This is the other reason i was not as "blown away" wiith the Soldo trade return. We lost a guy at peak age who was physically ready afternearly 2 years of rehab to physically impose & protect a young group learning the ropes. Once he left (very close to the end of trade week), we had no time to find a genuine replacement & it now means we have to waste alist spot on a guy who is not part of our longterm plans. At least we didn't have to overpay him like Tarrant

 

[RJK Tiger]

He nailed it. Bombers that night had a bunch of their best players out of their team. We had a handy lead at 3/4 time which went to 18-point when Dusty kicked the first goal of the last .. Bombers had won 2 of their previous 20 games trailing at 3/4 time.

We were still up by 12 with only 5-minutes left. Then we choked …. again.

Bombers then turned to complete dog sh*te later in the year, proving they were a bunch of spuds.

There’s by thousands of things said behind closed doors by all coaches way worse than this every single year … this became public as Cotchin wrote a book and Dimma’s tirade was out of character and it signalled something was amiss.

It doesn’t need any more context. It was a locker room comment never meant to see the light of day.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I reckon the context of him knowing it was his last game as coach of Richmond (and the group did NOT know this yet) is incredibly pinnacle to that story. If it wasn't for that that fact, no one would even care to talk about it - let alone include it in a book and it be used as the "presser" content to promote the book.


It would be like me on my last day at a job i had spent a decade at where i was a Team Leader, telling everyone they are crap, i would sack them all & replace them with anyone if i had half a chance & then walking into the owners office and resigning. It would be a very petty way to leave a job IMO.

To ignore the actual context of when he made the comment is to ignore the most important part of the entire story. He chose his final address to the players to be just that & presented it in a very poor, "rattled" fashion from all reports.

 

[acr2751]

I reckon the context of him knowing it was his last game as coach of Richmond (and the group did NOT know this yet) is incredibly pinnacle to that story. If it wasn't for that that fact, no one would even care to talk about it - let alone include it in a book and it be used as the "presser" content to promote the book.


It would be like me on my last day at a job i had spent a decade at where i was a Team Leader, telling everyone they are crap, i would sack them all & replace them with anyone if i had half a chance & then walking into the owners office and resigning. It would be a very petty way to leave a job IMO.

To ignore the actual context of when he made the comment is to ignore the most important part of the entire story. He chose his final address to the players to be just that & presented it in a very poor, "rattled" fashion from all reports

it never ends

 

[tiger_tough]

There are none tho. We at least didn't try to get any in trade week.

I see Naismith as a pretty worthless backup & VFL presence but thats about it. He Is Ben Marsh, Trent Knoblel - a grown man who can play ruck at VFL level & barely AFL level sometimes.

Its a pretty uninspiring pick for sure, but i guess one that was needed after Soldo left. This is the other reason i was not as "blown away" wiith the Soldo trade return. We lost a guy at peak age who was physically ready afternearly 2 years of rehab to physically impose & protect a young group learning the ropes. Once he left (very close to the end of trade week), we had no time to find a genuine replacement & it now means we have to waste alist spot on a guy who is not part of our longterm plans. At least we didn't have to overpay him like Tarrant

The only question re Naismith is his body, not his talent or work rate.

 

[db26]

His a backup Naismith and Insurance every club as one of them smart move for me. On Soldo his injury record wasn’t great after his knee struggled to play 10 games a year.

 

[RJK Tiger]

it never ends

This is you when it comes to being honest about negativity at Richmond.

Just in case.... you are the dog. The fire & smoke is alllllll the stories that exist that have absolutely nothing to do with me that should of, by now, alerted you that there was actually some pretty serious problems at the club

Would have thought that after Dimma quit and took another job a few months later that would have been the end of the ignorance. But alas, it continues.. And alas, so will i

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

His problem is that he’s being phased out.

50% centre bounces this year with some low numbers late in the season.
Last year it was 71%.

With a young mid group there his prospects aren’t improving.

I agree, but that may be why Port remain interested, they will be able to get him for a bag of chips by offering opportunity

In case of any confusion: I was referring to Wines being phased out.

 

[Grrr]

There are none tho. We at least didn't try to get any in trade week.

I see Naismith as a pretty worthless backup & VFL presence but thats about it. He Is Ben Marsh, Trent Knoblel - a grown man who can play ruck at VFL level & barely AFL level sometimes.

Its a pretty uninspiring pick for sure, but i guess one that was needed after Soldo left. This is the other reason i was not as "blown away" wiith the Soldo trade return. We lost a guy at peak age who was physically ready afternearly 2 years of rehab to physically impose & protect a young group learning the ropes. Once he left (very close to the end of trade week), we had no time to find a genuine replacement & it now means we have to waste alist spot on a guy who is not part of our longterm plans. At least we didn't have to overpay him like Tarrant

We need backup. Soldo wanted to leave so we need someone who has some talent even if it's only average. I'm sure they have looked high and low.

 

[Roksman]

The draft depth is shallow with experts saying that it thins out about pick 30. So players picked after that are more likely not to be AFL quality.

We have picks 29, 41, 65, 68 but likely only use the first 2 picks

Gold Coast are likely to try to trade all of their picks in the 20s (24, 26 and 27) on draft night for more points which would mean pick 29 could end up as pick 34.

Hopefully we can trade up to using picks 29, 65 & 68 and a F3 to try to climb up to 24 (29).
More likely to get a good player than at pick 34 where the draft is thinning out.

I have attached a consensus power rankings based on Rookie Me, AFL (Cal Twomey), ESPN and HUN power rankings to show what players will be available around that range.

View attachment 1838749

After watching a few highlights, it's clear that Charlie Edwards is going to be the bolter.

No way he makes it close to pick 30. So many AFL qualities and his hands and eerily line his namesake Shedda.

I know talls are on the agenda but we can't pass him up if he gets close to our selection. The kid looks all class, very impressive highlights but from what I know, the Saints are all over him with the Gresham compo pick.

 

[Sir_Loin]

After watching a few highlights, it's clear that Charlie Edwards is going to be the bolter.

No way he makes it close to pick 30. So many AFL qualities and his hands and eerily line his namesake Shedda.

I know talls are on the agenda but we can't pass him up if he gets close to our selection. The kid looks all class, very impressive highlights from what I saw.

Would be a great get but he would be a slider to make to our pick

 

[Rayzorwire]

The fact we're even looking at Naismith as about the best available underlines how valuable Soldo was. Way more valuable than what we got for him, 'market worth' be damned.

A couple of incidences of average grade bad luck among our heavily depleted ruck division (we've lost three mature age rucks in three years and couldn't even keep the best of them!) and we can kiss the next 2-3 seasons of finals goodbye.

Wallace's coaching stint began with us assembling four mature, capable first rucks (and Pattison), by year 2-3 we were alternating playing Pattison and Tuck there half the year. Lack of a consistent, durable ruck division (even more than losing Brown and Coughlan) ruined any possible chance of success in that era.

We were really blessed and unusually fortunate to get away with the thin stocks of injury prone rucks we did in the Hardwick flag years. Since then we've steadily run ourselves down to an ageing, injury prone Nank then literally nothing...next in line is a hope and a prayer that Ryan definitely makes it .

Really dumb list management, IMO.

 

[GoTigers2015]

After watching a few highlights, it's clear that Charlie Edwards is going to be the bolter.

No way he makes it close to pick 30. So many AFL qualities and his hands and eerily line his namesake Shedda.

I know talls are on the agenda but we can't pass him up if he gets close to our selection. The kid looks all class, very impressive highlights but from what I know, the Saints are all over him with the Gresham compo pick.

Yes, doubt he would be available. IMO should go the best available tall if no quality mids left.
There is a good batch in this years draft (mostly rucks) so hopefully one slides

 

[tigerfan1961]

The fact we're even looking at Naismith as about the best available underlines how valuable Soldo was. Way more valuable than what we got for him, 'market worth' be damned.

A couple of incidences of average grade bad luck among our heavily depleted ruck division (we've lost three mature age rucks in three years and couldn't even keep the best of them!) and we can kiss the next 2-3 seasons of finals goodbye.

Wallace's coaching stint began with us assembling four mature, capable first rucks (and Pattison), by year 2-3 we were alternating playing Pattison and Tuck there half the year. Lack of a consistent, durable ruck division (even more than losing Brown and Coughlan) ruined any possible chance of success in that era.

We were really blessed and unusually fortunate to get away with the thin stocks of injury prone rucks we did in the Hardwick flag years. Since then we've steadily run ourselves down to an ageing, injury prone Nank then literally nothing...next in line is a hope and a prayer that Ryan definitely makes it .

Really dumb list management, IMO.

Really? That glum???? Don’t think so, Blair is no fool and resisted trading Soldo so would have a plan B.
The guy built a list that won THREE flags, at least have some faith in him

 

[Rayzorwire]

Really? That glum???? Don’t think so, Blair is no fool and resisted trading Soldo so would have a plan B.
The guy built a list that won THREE flags, at least have some faith in him

Blair gets no say in what positions players play, it wasn't up to him to tell Soldo what he wanted to hear and deserved to hear; that the first ruck slot would be selected purely on form, with no issues of captaincy involved in the decision whatsoever - the way football teams should be picked.

That was Yze's responsibility.

I have faith in Blair's ability to sift through dregs for something half useful, I'm sure he'd much prefer not to.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The fact we're even looking at Naismith as about the best available underlines how valuable Soldo was. Way more valuable than what we got for him, 'market worth' be damned.

A couple of incidences of average grade bad luck among our heavily depleted ruck division (we've lost three mature age rucks in three years and couldn't even keep the best of them!) and we can kiss the next 2-3 seasons of finals goodbye.

Wallace's coaching stint began with us assembling four mature, capable first rucks (and Pattison), by year 2-3 we were alternating playing Pattison and Tuck there half the year. Lack of a consistent, durable ruck division (even more than losing Brown and Coughlan) ruined any possible chance of success in that era.

We were really blessed and unusually fortunate to get away with the thin stocks of injury prone rucks we did in the Hardwick flag years. Since then we've steadily run ourselves down to an ageing, injury prone Nank then literally nothing...next in line is a hope and a prayer that Ryan definitely makes it .

Really dumb list management, IMO.

While Soldo has always shown talent in his tap work (better than Nank) and is good for the odd mark and goal up forward, he is very average around the ground. I think we got a very good deal for him. We just need to make it count. Ryan will be our number one ruck in 18 months. We are in a transition period. We also have Oliver Hayes-Brown who I think will surprise many.

 

[RJK Tiger]

The fact we're even looking at Naismith as about the best available underlines how valuable Soldo was. Way more valuable than what we got for him, 'market worth' be damned.

A couple of incidences of average grade bad luck among our heavily depleted ruck division (we've lost three mature age rucks in three years and couldn't even keep the best of them!) and we can kiss the next 2-3 seasons of finals goodbye.

Wallace's coaching stint began with us assembling four mature, capable first rucks (and Pattison), by year 2-3 we were alternating playing Pattison and Tuck there half the year. Lack of a consistent, durable ruck division (even more than losing Brown and Coughlan) ruined any possible chance of success in that era.

We were really blessed and unusually fortunate to get away with the thin stocks of injury prone rucks we did in the Hardwick flag years. Since then we've steadily run ourselves down to an ageing, injury prone Nank then literally nothing...next in line is a hope and a prayer that Ryan definitely makes it .

Really dumb list management, IMO.

you sir, are correct. Regarding the current times and the past. Vardy, Simmonds, Hall, Pattison, Tuck, Marsh, Knobel, A.Graham, Stafford, Putt, Cartliedge,.... the list of stopgap ruckman we used, either searching trhough the delisted bin or repurposing talls who were better suited elsewhere, this was the way.

With the current times, it doesn't bother me so much as i don't see us as being serious contenders. Way too many holes in Ruck, key Forward, Key back positions. So if we have Naismith there as a rookie spot back-up, sure. Whatever. If you think we can compete tho, Naismith is not going to cut the mustard.

I 100% agree with the Soldo's value, especially once Grundy committed to the Swans. Who else did Port have to target for a ruck? I think the return we got on him was ok, but i would have liked to see how that could have gone if we actually applied some heat. He was a Premiership ruckman & would have been a 2 time premiership ruckman if not for injury.

I see no urgency in us signing Naismith either. I would wait to see who gets cut first. He is a pretty low level option.

 

[RJK Tiger]

While Soldo has always shown talent in his tap work (better than Nank) and is good for the odd mark and goal up forward, he is very average around the ground. I think we got a very good deal for him. We just need to make it count. Ryan will be our number one ruck in 18 months. We are in a transition period. We also have Oliver Hayes-Brown who I think will surprise many.

I thought the 2nd half of the season he actually showed quite a bit as a forward, but his set shots were average

 

[Rayzorwire]

Ryan will be our number one ruck in 18 months.

I honestly suspect he's a year or two further away than that and no 'locked in' guarantee to make it as a genuine #1 ruck.

Either way, without a viable mature #1 in the interim, we're putting a lot of pressure on the kid.

We also have Oliver Hayes-Brown who I think will surprise many.

I'm cautiously optimistic we've managed to jag a potential senior player there, but expecting a genuine #1 AFL ruck is a bit much, IMO.

Would solve a lot of issues if he did develop into a viable option.

 

[Bojangles17]

There are none tho. We at least didn't try to get any in trade week.

I see Naismith as a pretty worthless backup & VFL presence but thats about it. He Is Ben Marsh, Trent Knoblel - a grown man who can play ruck at VFL level & barely AFL level sometimes.

Its a pretty uninspiring pick for sure, but i guess one that was needed after Soldo left. This is the other reason i was not as "blown away" wiith the Soldo trade return. We lost a guy at peak age who was physically ready afternearly 2 years of rehab to physically impose & protect a young group learning the ropes. Once he left (very close to the end of trade week), we had no time to find a genuine replacement & it now means we have to waste alist spot on a guy who is not part of our longterm plans. At least we didn't have to overpay him like Tarrant

His numbers at afl level were pretty respectable , ton of hit outs 12-13p a game , he’s pretty capable which is what you want for a back up

 

[Profop]

Soldo would have been a free agent next year and on the move. He wants to be a number one and he isn’t going to be that at Richmond

We got more for him than any compo we would have received for free agency so you bite the bullet

If that means throwing a list spot to Naismith before working out if Ryan is the future number one or we need someone else it’s not that bad

 

[Rubber Hips]

 

[RJK Tiger]

His numbers at afl level were pretty respectable , ton of hit outs 12-13p a game , he’s pretty capable which is what you want for a back up

I see the purpose of the move & haven;t got much of an opinion on using it. It;s one of those things you have to do when you are rebuilding & the right long term option currently doesn;t exist. Like a ruck version of Mark Graham etc. Its a move you make when you have stuffed up your list management in a certain position and need to think on the fly. In the last few years we have lost Chol, CCJ & now Soldo & we haven't made much of an attempt to replace them

his stats at AFL level are hard to take serious. 2017 was a long time ago.....and dont we know it. My biggest concern with Naismith is, whats the point of having a "break glass in case of emergency" back up, whose career was mostly ruined due to repeated injuries?

 

[RJK Tiger]

Soldo would have been a free agent next year and on the move. He wants to be a number one and he isn’t going to be that at Richmond

We got more for him than any compo we would have received for free agency so you bite the bullet

If that means throwing a list spot to Naismith before working out if Ryan is the future number one or we need someone else it’s not that bad

Would have to disagree with that. If we were to lose him in free agency we would have gotten a end of first rounder for him as the compo pick. Without doubt. All Richmond has to do is tell Port, unless we get a end of 1st as compo, we will match the deal and force a trade. clubs have realised, that you are better to over-pay the guy and get him without losing any draft assets, then just re-negotiate the contract at a later date ( ala Daniher & will 100% be the case with Gresham, Doedee etc

an end of 1st round pick would trump the package we got.

 

[LTT]

Word? I think you might have some errors in your stats there dude.


2023 Coach of the Year - Adam Kingsley ( 2015 Assistant Coach of the Year @ St Kilda )
2022 Coach of the Year - Fly McRae ( 2019 Assistant Coach of the Year @ Richmond )
2017 Coach of the Year - Dimma



2017 Assistant - Leppa, Caracella, McQualter, Rutten McRae ( all have gone on to coach AFL games as head coach)
2018 Assistant - Leppa, Caracella, McQualter, Rutten McRae ( all have gone on to coach AFL games as head coach)
2019 Assistants - Leppa, Caracella, McQualter, Kingsley McRae ( all have gone on to coach AFL games as head coach)
2020 Assistants - Leppa, Caracella, McQualter, Kingsley McRae ( all have gone on to coach AFL games as head coach)

I honestly thought the loss to the Bombers was as much on his performance than any single player. The strategy sucked. His inability to be able to coach us to wins despite holding quite good leads would have cost us no less that 10 losses over 3 seasons i would think.

Honestly if you defend that bloke telling our group they just lost to a bunch of spuds in his last game before quitting then you have s**t standards. If you want the Gold Coast to win a flag, then the problem is on you. I support Richmond, not people.

this is the bloke who 12 months earlier believed that Hopper, Taranto & Tarrant were keeping our window wide open. At one point he said this was the best list he ever had access to. Then 10 weeks into the season he is saying they cant even beat a bunch of spuds and quit. Mind you, those bunch of spuds finished higher than us & we tried our best, all year. This is the same list Dimma was convinced would compete for a top 4, his words - not mine.

Dimma's results and game strategy fell apart once he lost the dream cache of assistants he had. It's not an opinion - its actually a fact. I'm guessing this is why the club felt the soft=cap hurt them. If Dimma was apparently a master that didnt require assistants then the soft cap falling wouldn't have been a problem - yet, we sure did say it was a problem & it looked like it was a problem.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/richmonds-damien-hardwick-calls-for-senior-coaches-wages-to-be-partly-paid-outside-soft-cap/news-story/2464370ddf697a30d108e5fe0bce27f4

Interestingly pre 2017 we couldn’t win a final when Dimma got to pick his own assistant coaches, most from his time at Port. I think that ensuring that the coach was surrounded by a diverse bunch assistant’s who could stand up to the coach if he is wrong is a big part of the big improvement in 2017. The Richmond experience would seem to counter the idea of putting all the credit or blame on Dimma doesn’t

 

[GhostofJimJess]

We were really blessed and unusually fortunate to get away with the thin stocks of injury prone rucks we did in the Hardwick flag years. Since then we've steadily run ourselves down to an ageing, injury prone Nank then literally nothing...next in line is a hope and a prayer that Ryan definitely makes it .

Really dumb list management, IMO.

The sheer nature of ruck work makes it an injury prone role. With the exception of Gawn and maybe Goldy and Grundy, there's been very few non-injury-prone top end rucks over the last decade.

NicNat, Sandilands, McEvoy, Kreuzer, Cameron, Stanley, Darcy, Witts, Lycett, Draper etc all injury prone and missed chunks of seasons, sometimes huge chunks.

Can a playing list really afford to carry four good rucks nowadays? And anyway, you'd be hard pressed to find a senior quality ruckman who's prepared to be fourth in line.