Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Cap]

 

[Cap]

Interesting summary.

Hope it keeps going and going and going

 

[kalex6251]

am i wrong to think msm coverage of this significant event is no where near that given to the wagner incursion

very strange

 

[wannabejack]

Article from FP suggesting the Ukrainian invasion of Russia may be a step towards peace negotiations, by giving Ukraine something to trade. I guess we will see if they try to hold it, perhaps they will grab a Crimea size piece. Certainly with the risk of a Putin fan boi becoming US President again, Ukraine may be looking to strengthen it's hand in the coming months.
Read the article here.

Ukraine’s Invasion of Russia Could Bring a Quicker End to the War

One aim of the surprise breakthrough may be for Kyiv to gain leverage in negotiations.

foreignpolicy.com

Already, Ukraine’s lightning foray into Russia undermines the widespread idea that Putin holds all the cards to dictate the terms of a cease-fire.

In the talks that produced the Minsk I and II accords in 2014 and 2015, Ukraine had such a weak hand that it had to agree to impossible terms:

In March 2022, direct talks between Ukraine and Russia on the Belarusian border were not a negotiation but Russia’s delivery of surrender terms to Ukraine.

...in terms of Russian elite and popular perception, the restoration of Russia’s legitimate state territory will take precedence over continued occupation of recently conquered domains—especially if a land swap opens an avenue to the end of Western sanctions.

None of this, however, changes the most fundamental problem with a negotiated outcome: the fact that Russia has ignored just about every agreement it has signed with Ukraine.

 

[wannabejack]

Biden Administration Announces Additional Security Assistance for Ukraine

The Defense Department announced additional security assistance to meet Ukraine's critical security and defense needs.

www.defense.gov

• Stinger missiles;
• Ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
• 155mm and 105mm artillery ammunition;
• Multi-mission radars;
• Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided (TOW) missiles;
• Javelin and AT-4 anti-armor systems;
• High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV) ambulances;
• Small arms ammunition;
• Demolitions equipment and munitions;
• Equipment to protect critical national infrastructure; and
• Spare parts, ancillary equipment, services, training, and transportation.

 

[Cap]

Biden Administration Announces Additional Security Assistance for Ukraine

The Defense Department announced additional security assistance to meet Ukraine's critical security and defense needs.

www.defense.gov

• Stinger missiles;
• Ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
• 155mm and 105mm artillery ammunition;
• Multi-mission radars;
• Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided (TOW) missiles;
• Javelin and AT-4 anti-armor systems;
• High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV) ambulances;
• Small arms ammunition;
• Demolitions equipment and munitions;
• Equipment to protect critical national infrastructure; and
• Spare parts, ancillary equipment, services, training, and transportation.

I love how they announced it mid incursion.

 

[Millky95]

 

[wannabejack]

Ukraine Seeks US Green Light for ATACMS to Hold Kursk and Press Moscow

Kyiv is asking the US to authorize the use of ATACMS for strikes in Russia during the offensive in Kursk. This would help Ukraine hold territory and influence negotiations with Moscow.

www.kyivpost.com

The long-range missiles are planned to be used to strike Russian military airfields from which Russian aircraft conduct bombing raids on Ukrainian positions. According to the source, such a political decision would help the AFU maintain control over parts of the Kursk Oblast.
“This will give them the leverage they need for negotiations with Russia – this is what it’s all about,” the advisor to Zelensky said.

Some military analysts believe the next target for Ukrainian forces might be the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant...
...Currently, the plant is guarded only by women,
…the plant’s management has no plan in case of an attack, and employees have not been instructed on what to do next.

 

[Wce17]

Time to give those F-16’s a workout!

 

[Visions]

Shame if Ukraine used the Russian depletion of the these areas to conduct counters and take back the land that took Russia the last 6 months to achieve…..

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

am i wrong to think msm coverage of this significant event is no where near that given to the wagner incursion

very strange

Very different as Wagner was an attempted coup. When you think about it Ukraine taking Kursk / Belgorod was always a logical progression of the war if Putin persisted with his fruitless invasion.

 

[Zidane98]

Looks like Kursk would like to be returned to Ukranian sovereignty after it was illegally transferred to Russia SSR.

barreness should Russia cede Kursk in the name of peace?

 

[RonSon]

 

[Visions]

Looks like Kursk would like to be returned to Ukranian sovereignty after it was illegally transferred to Russia SSR.

barreness should Russia cede Kursk in the name of peace?

Referendum now!!!!

 

[Visions]

Wonder if this the opening of a second front or just the Georgian legion taking advantage of the situation?

Also read somewhere that this is the first time in history a nuclear power has been invaded and been occupied.

This attack shows two things. First the worry about Russia being a force to compete and defeat NATO is a fallacy. NATO would destroy Russia in a conventional war.

Secondly the west can now acknowledge that the escalation BS is just that. As Putin didn’t press the button the first day Ukraine entered Russia he aint doing it for the long range bombing of military installations with western missiles.

 

[Smeg Head]

China invading parts of India over the years might count but point taken its embarrassing for Putler.

 

[Anzacpaul]

I just hope Ukraine can hold on long enough for Putin to bite the bullet.

Even if his replacement agrees with the war, it's the easiest win ever to pull out and would have massive positive ramifications for them as a leader both internally and externally.

 

[Visions]

And like previous times when Russian soldiers have been killed, the Kremlin will provide adequate compensation to the families.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Secondly the west can now acknowledge that the escalation BS is just that. As Putin didn’t press the button the first day Ukraine entered Russia he aint doing it for the long range bombing of military installations with western missiles.

Seeing that Putin and his lackeys haven't even uttered a nuclear threat when they are normally so quick to threaten nukes if red lines are crossed is very telling.

This has been exposed as a bluff like the many other supposed redines which have already been crossed.

 

[barreness]

Looks like Kursk would like to be returned to Ukranian sovereignty after it was illegally transferred to Russia SSR.

barreness should Russia cede Kursk in the name of peace?

If Ukraine can dig in and hold it, it would significantly improve their hand in negotiations. But you're against negotiations so idk man

You don't honestly think the partisans could hold an election

So Crimea is fine with Russia after it was transferred(illegally?) to Ukraine? I don't get your point

 

[Visions]

The second KA-52 downed inside Russia within the last few days.

The terrorists had about 150 of these at the start of the war, and have lost about half of them since (that have been documented). They’re becoming rarer by the day.



Lukashenko is understandably terrified. If Poland decided to invade Belarus, he knows Russia wont be able to help him and he would be left on his own.

 

[Mofra]

am i wrong to think msm coverage of this significant event is no where near that given to the wagner incursion

very strange

Gaza, Olympics, US electoral cycle.
There's a lot of competition for eyeballs at the moment

 

[Mofra]

China invading parts of India over the years might count but point taken its embarrassing for Putler.

The issues in Sikkim are pretty weird - both sides adhering to the "no firearms" rule and attacking each other with sticks and stones, literally.