Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Val Keating]

Load of nonsense. He just watched his client state, one where Russia is actually welcome and not told to **** off for good, have its dictator rolled within 11 days.

Syria is an actual ally of Russia whereas Russia will never be an ally of Ukraine for a long, long time.


And guess what - not a nuke fired despite involvement of Turkey in the overthrow, a NATO state nonetheless.


We also seen Russia also refuse to honor its CSTO obligations in order to assist Armenia who sought assistance under mutual defense.



Russia didn't get involved because it couldn't. Everyone knows Putin isn't firing a nuke. Let's not justify the bullshit threats he constantly makes.

I see a end for Putin similar to Assad in the next few years when too many Russians are fed up with him destroying the sovereignty of Russia just to chase his delusional dreams of a new Russian empire.


Putin's done, it's just a matter of how much damage he does both to Russia and to Ukraine.

I think the reason they left Syria to the Jihadists this time is purely because Russia is fully engaged in a war with Ukraine.

Shit, who knows what’s going on , wouldn’t surprise me if Putin has an agreement with Trump, give Russia Ukraine and we’ll leave Syria.

 

[IlovethePies]

I think the reason they left Syria to the Jihadists this time is purely because Russia is fully engaged in a war with Ukraine.

Shit, who knows what’s going on , wouldn’t surprise me if Putin has an agreement with Trump, give Russia Ukraine and we’ll leave Syria.

Yep, the only reason is that they don't have the resources to defend the Assad regime because of the war in Ukraine.

Likewise Hezbollah is severely degraded

There is absolutely no need to assume any agreement between Trump and Putin. In actual fact, all the events we are currently watching are the outcome of Israel's genocidal war against Gaza and then its extension to Lebanon - with the full bipartisan backing of the US.

Add that to the Biden administrations continuing escalation of the war in Ukraine, and you see the ongoing drive of imperialism to subjugate Russia and reorganise the Middle East by installing proxy regimes.v

The war against Russia and the reorganisation of the Middle East are two interconnected components of the same war.

 

[Val Keating]

Yep, the only reason is that they don't have the resources to defend the Assad regime because of the war in Ukraine.

Likewise Hezbollah is severely degraded

There is absolutely no need to assume any agreement between Trump and Putin. In actual fact, all the events we are currently watching are the outcome of Israel's genocidal war against Gaza and then its extension to Lebanon - with the full bipartisan backing of the US.

Add that to the Biden administrations continuing escalation of the war in Ukraine, and you see the ongoing drive of imperialism to subjugate Russia and reorganise the Middle East by installing proxy regimes.v

The war against Russia and the reorganisation of the Middle East are two interconnected components of the same war.

Just spit balling on the Trump / Putin bit.

 

[Zidane98]

I think the reason they left Syria to the Jihadists this time is purely because Russia is fully engaged in a war with Ukraine.

Shit, who knows what’s going on , wouldn’t surprise me if Putin has an agreement with Trump, give Russia Ukraine and we’ll leave Syria.

Hate to break it to you but Trump just brokered a 1 billion military aid deal to Ukraine after meeting with Zelenesky.

While wearing a blue jacket with a yellow tie.

Syria should be a much higher priority than Ukraine for Russia looking at things logically.

 

[Val Keating]

Hate to break it to you but Trump just brokered a 1 billion military aid deal to Ukraine after meeting with Zelenesky.

While wearing a blue jacket with a yellow tie.

Syria should be a much higher priority than Ukraine for Russia looking at things logically.

How? He’s not president yet.

 

[Visions]

The sooner the better, obviously, but with Russia in Ukraine and the US giving air cover to the newly rebranded Isis, we’re probably going to see some horrific shit like what happened last time ISIS got a hold of an area, like killing people by running over them with tanks, locking them in cages and burning them alive etc..

I don’t find that amusing, and congratulations on your internet points

http://[URL='https://www.defensenew...ria-heres-how-theyre-being-used/[/URL[/COLOR]

]

Without a doubt the future of Syria is uncertain, but it takes a special person to willingly want an oppressive regime with a dictator who has reigned terror upon his citizens killing hundreds of thousands over the decades to stay in power. You are that special someone.

 

[Val Keating]

Without a doubt the future of Syria is uncertain, but it takes a special person to willingly want an oppressive regime with a dictator who has reigned terror upon his citizens killing hundreds of thousands over the decades to stay in power. You are that special someone.

So you support isis? Don’t be silly. I know Assad is a monster, so were Saddam and Gaddafi

 

[IlovethePies]

Just spit balling on the Trump / Putin bit.

Neither Trump nor Putin are to be trusted in any way.

No one should believe that Trump will hold fast to his election promise of "stopping the war in Ukraine in 24 hours". This was purely demagoguery aimed at exploiting anti-war sentiment in the working population.

Putin is desperately hoping that Trump will withdraw US aid to Ukraine, but there is absolutely no guarantee.

In the meantime, the lame duck Biden administration is doing everything it can to escalate the war to such a point that when Trump assumes office, there won't be a way for him to easily wind back US involvement.

The entire priority of the Democrats is to escalate the war against Russia.

Like the Democrats, Trump represents the capitalist class. He might just decide to change tack and decide that prosecuting the war against Russia is in US interests.

Or he might decide no, the US should withdraw from the conflict, stop sending billions of dollars to Zelensky, and instead prepare for war against the main enemy, ie China.

 

[Visions]

Wait, do you think Russia will lose the war?

Russia wont win the war, not in the way Putin and the Russians want, which for him will be a loss.

So you support isis? Don’t be silly. I know Assad is a monster, so were Saddam and Gaddafi

I didn't say I support ISIS, I said the future was uncertain. You were the one openly hoping that Assad continue his reign, even though at the moment, millions of Syrian citizens are happy that he is gone.

 

[IlovethePies]

Russia wont win the war, not in the way Putin and the Russians want, which for him will be a loss.



I didn't say I support ISIS, I said the future was uncertain. You were the one openly hoping that Assad continue his reign, even though at the moment, millions of Syrian citizens are happy that he is gone.

Just looking back at the sequence of posts, I think that VK said he thought that Assad was a monster (along with Gaddafi and Saddam). That would suggest that he doesn't want the Assad regime to continue.

I think that what is necessary is to critically assess the nature of the forces that are now assuming control of Syria - above all to determine which imperialist power is backing them.

It is totally understandable that millions of Syrian people are overjoyed that the brutal Assad regime has been overthrown.
But what exactly is the nature and the political orientation of the forces who will now replace him?

 

[Val Keating]

Russia wont win the war, not in the way Putin and the Russians want, which for him will be a loss.



I didn't say I support ISIS, I said the future was uncertain. You were the one openly hoping that Assad continue his reign, even though at the moment, millions of Syrian citizens are happy that he is gone.

Russia have already won. They’ve taken land and will keep it.

My concern regarding the NATO backed jihadists that have taken Syria wasn’t in support of Assad, my concern is that with the Israeli backed jihadists taking Syria, it blocks Iran from helping Lebanon and Palestine fight against the Zionists.

 

[IlovethePies]

Russia have already won. They’ve taken land and will keep it.

My concern regarding the NATO backed jihadists that have taken Syria wasn’t in support of Assad, my concern is that with the Israeli backed jihadists taking Syria, it blocks Iran from helping Lebanon and Palestine fight against the Zionists.

Russia has not won.

The crisis of Russia has intensified. Syria will soon be under the sway of US imperialism. The foothold of Russia in Syria has been eliminated.

This is a major geostrategic victory of US imperialism. It will now be able to use the victory of its proxies in Syria to tighten the noose around Russia.

Israel is not an independent entity. It is a complete client state of the US. Israel can only be properly understood in geopolitical terms as the extension of US imperialism in the Middle East. The Jihadists in Syria are proxies of the US.

The Iranian regime is incapable of leading a struggle against Zionism. This is because it fears the Iranian working class far more than anything else.

The Iranian regime defends the profit interests of Iranian capitalists. Therefore, it will never appeal to the Iranian working class to mobilise for its social interests (proper wages, proper housing, public education and health)

The only way out of this catastrophe is to build an international socialist movement of the working class, to unite the workers across the Middle East (Jewish workers, Syrian workers, Lebanese workers, Palestinian workers, ....) against all these criminal regimes who have nothing to offer except poverty, dictatorship and war.

 

[Millky95]

Hate to break it to you but Trump just brokered a 1 billion military aid deal to Ukraine after meeting with Zelenesky.

Technically wasn't Trump and wouldn't surprise me if this was done because of Trump coming in who is pro Russia

 

[tricknologist]

 

[Zidane98]

Russia wont win the war, not in the way Putin and the Russians want, which for him will be a loss.



I didn't say I support ISIS, I said the future was uncertain. You were the one openly hoping that Assad continue his reign, even though at the moment, millions of Syrian citizens are happy that he is gone.

Supposedly 95% voted for Assad in the most recent elections 6 months ago.

 

[Mobbs]

In Tbilisi, groups begin to form in order to protect protestors from paid thugs - kind of state recruited mafia - (aka titushki) who have been attacking those who are protesting.

Dangerous situation - a risk of thug v thug war in Georgia. Hopefully best intentions and with control, but the heat is rising.

(Yanykovich also employed "titushki" during the Ukrainian revolution).

View attachment აქციის_მონაწილეებმა_თავდაცვის_მიზნით_ჯგუფი_შექმნეს,_რათა_მომიტინგეები.mp4




And the Georgian state began to erect a a christmas tree outside their parliament, immediately the opportunity was seized by protestors to add visual statements, including images of those tortured by the authorities.



The brutality has been much under-reported, while the freedom of Georgia from Russian barbarism is on the line.

 

[Chadwiko]

Load of nonsense. He just watched his client state, one where Russia is actually welcome and not told to **** off for good, have its dictator rolled within 11 days.

Syria is an actual ally of Russia whereas Russia will never be an ally of Ukraine for a long, long time.

And guess what - not a nuke fired despite involvement of Turkey in the overthrow, a NATO state nonetheless.

Yup.

And just by way of an update;

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

Differences between Zelensky & Assad couldn't be more stark.


Assad - brutal dictator, human rights abuser. Held on to power by way of Russian led military dictatorship. At the first sign of trouble, fled with his family to Moscow.


Zelensky - elected by popular vote. When attacked by neighbor Russia with overwhelming force instead of choosing to flee stayed in Kyiv and is still fighting off fascist Russians to this very day. Busy travelling the world getting support, visits his men on the front line.

 

[wannabejack]

Differences between Zelensky & Assad couldn't be more stark.


Assad - brutal dictator, human rights abuser. Held on to power by way of Russian led military dictatorship. At the first sign of trouble, fled with his family to Moscow.


Zelensky - elected by popular vote. When attacked by neighbor Russia with overwhelming force instead of choosing to flee stayed in Kyiv and is still fighting off fascist Russians to this very day. Busy travelling the world getting support, visits his men on the front line.

 

[Zidane98]

Whack. Georgia shoots down bs rumors that it suspended EU talks.


Russia couldn't possibly quell an uprising in Georgia right now.

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

There is blood in the water in the Kremlin and the sharks are circling. How much longer for Putin do we all reckon?

 

[Zidane98]

There is blood in the water in the Kremlin and the sharks are circling. How much longer for Putin do we all reckon?

Monetary wise all he has left is to plunder gold reserves & national wealth fund reserves to maintain his invasion.


That's a move that may see another insurrection though. There must be people in Russia that don't want to see the state's wealth evaporate on a fruitless invasion.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Differences between Zelensky & Assad couldn't be more stark.


Assad - brutal dictator, human rights abuser. Held on to power by way of Russian led military dictatorship. At the first sign of trouble, fled with his family to Moscow.


Zelensky - elected by popular vote. When attacked by neighbor Russia with overwhelming force instead of choosing to flee stayed in Kyiv and is still fighting off fascist Russians to this very day. Busy travelling the world getting support, visits his men on the front line.

All quiet from the Russian apologists on these threads as regards Russia and Putin's humiliation in Syria.