Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Visions]

Yup.

And just by way of an update;

View attachment 2184376

Russia just keeps on getting weaker by the day. This is yet another in the long line of major embarrassments for Russia in the last few years, with its influence fading as time moves on.

They may be able to con their internal audience via a Goebbels style propaganda and media suppression that they are some sort of force, but they can't fool the rest of the world who know fully well and see them deteriorating right before our eyes.

View attachment 2184377

That's because if they did travel to Russia, they would be on a Ukrainian frontline within a week.

 

[Visions]

Whack. Georgia shoots down bs rumors that it suspended EU talks.


Russia couldn't possibly quell an uprising in Georgia right now.

Mmmm. I beg to differ on this one. To me they are trying to backpedal and this is just an attempt to spin some crap and excuse their decision to hold off on talks until 2028 (how is that not suspending talks despite their claim) and blame others.

I think that they have read the tea leaves and that this is an attempt to try and nullify the protests.

 

[Visions]

A Scott Ritter special

lol. The only thing "doomed to fail" was the convicted paedophiles analysis of the situation at hand.....

 

[Gethelred]

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten - despite it being in the banner post - abuse of a fellow poster is against forum and board rules. It also might do to remind you that the rules exist for everyone, not for you to use them against someone you disagree with.

 

[RonSon]

Huh??

This is just so stupid.

If the money for nuclear submarines, Bushmasters, advanced missiles in Northern Australia were not allocated for these purposes, then the Australian government could use it instead to ensure that hospitals, schools, the disabled, the mentally unwell, Aboriginal people were better cared for.

One of the main reasons why social spending is being gutted is to fund military expenditure.

This is happening throughout the world.

This statement is ridiculous.

What was the Australian budget surplus last year? I'll help you out. Australia had a $22 billion surplus. Those things were not funded because the government did not want to fund them. I'm not saying that they shouldn't receive funding, but you can't pin $1.5 billion in aid to Ukraine (and the real value would be less than that) as the reason they aren't funded.

 

[Zidane98]

This statement is ridiculous.

What was the Australian budget surplus last year? I'll help you out. Australia had a $22 billion surplus. Those things were not funded because the government did not want to fund them. I'm not saying that they shouldn't receive funding, but you can't pin $1.5 billion in aid to Ukraine (and the real value would be less than that) as the reason they aren't funded.

It is also an absolute lie to claim defense spending is at the expense of health funding. We've seen this meme repeatedly in the US too, usually by pro Russian commentators.

One has to ask why anyone is posting such blatant falsehoods.

 

[Millky95]

While people might draw a parallel between Putler and Assad, don't expect him to be toppled like that. For a start, realistically must russians support him.

Call me a pessimist but I honestly think the only thing that'll stop this conflict and Putin is when his heart just stops during his sleep one night. Probably 25 years from now

 

[Saint]

Yep, $300bn for theoretical subs for a theoretical enemy, but it's $1.5bn for an ally to fight an expansionist empire is what's breaking the Govt's defence budget???

If we can afford imaginary subs the USA says they can't even build, then we can afford to support Ukraine to survive against Russia.

 

[Zidane98]

Yep, $300bn for theoretical subs for a theoretical enemy, but it's $1.5bn for an ally to fight an expansionist empire is what's breaking the Govt's defence budget???

If we can afford imaginary subs the USA says they can't even build, then we can afford to support Ukraine to survive against Russia.

It's not 1.5b of actual money either. We send lots of end of life equipment to Ukraine. It's assigned an economic value on the books but the only real cost is transport to Ukraine.

 

[Zidane98]

Call me a pessimist but I honestly think the only thing that'll stop this conflict and Putin is when his heart just stops during his sleep one night. Probably 25 years from now

I don't see that happening forever. It can't. While Putin's a crazy fascist he isn't utterly stupid. He knows Russia cannot continue as an isolated international pariah state for ever. He knows the current casualty rate for Russia isn't sustainable long term. Eventually the people will rise up against a government destroying their lives. Russia needs to be a major power on the international stage and be integrated into Europe again. Russia needs to capitalise on oil / gas income before both fossil fuels become obsolete which is a long term inevitability. Russia can't do this by continuing to purse Putin's dream of a new Russian empire.

His play has always been to hang on until either Ukraine or those supplying Ukraine give up. He isn't going to give up on his new Russian empire ideology. Putin needs the war to end in the near future. As is shown by Syria Russia is stretched to breaking point.

 

[wannabejack]

So if, as you explain above, war is causing all these horrific social issues, why do you think it is wonderful that Australia is helping the US to keep escalating the war?

What you’re saying it’s every man (country) for himself. If a country gets invaded it shouldn’t receive any military help from other countries especially from the USA. They should just accept being invaded because we don’t want an escalation.
If New Zealand was being invaded we shouldn’t give them a few bushmasters because we’d only be escalating the conflict. If Indonesia invaded Papua New Guinea we shouldn’t give them a few bushmasters because we’d only be escalating the conflict. If China invaded Taiwan we shouldn’t give them a few bushmasters because we’d only be escalating the conflict.

 

[Saint]

I don't see that happening forever. It can't. While Putin's a crazy fascist he isn't utterly stupid. He knows Russia cannot continue as an isolated international pariah state for ever. He knows the current casualty rate for Russia isn't sustainable long term. Eventually the people will rise up against a government destroying their lives. Russia needs to be a major power on the international stage and be integrated into Europe again. Russia needs to capitalise on oil / gas income before both fossil fuels become obsolete which is a long term inevitability. Russia can't do this by continuing to purse Putin's dream of a new Russian empire.

His play has always been to hang on until either Ukraine or those supplying Ukraine give up. He isn't going to give up on his new Russian empire ideology. Putin needs the war to end in the near future. As is shown by Syria Russia is stretched to breaking point.

He turned it into attrition, he's banking on it being worse for Ukraine than Russia. Ukraine can't hold out for another 5 years. The Russian people in the rural and regional areas who bear the brunt of Russia austerity don't have a choice, they've just got to suck it up. Still seems to be enough money flowing in to keep the lights on in Russia.

I can't see much changing in the next year, Russia will still meat-grinder its way westward and the west will still only provide Ukraine enough material for bare-survival.

 

[Baldur]

Call me a pessimist but I honestly think the only thing that'll stop this conflict and Putin is when his heart just stops during his sleep one night. Probably 25 years from now

The war cannot continue at its present level for more than about 12 months, give or take say 4 months. Russia's economy simply will not take it & the equipment stockpiles they rely on are running low. The real question is will Ukraine be forced to allow Russia a ceasefire (due to western leaders being campaigners) before the Russian economy falls apart.

 

[swingdog]

He turned it into attrition, he's banking on it being worse for Ukraine than Russia. Ukraine can't hold out for another 5 years. The Russian people in the rural and regional areas who bear the brunt of Russia austerity don't have a choice, they've just got to suck it up. Still seems to be enough money flowing in to keep the lights on in Russia.

I can't see much changing in the next year, Russia will still meat-grinder its way westward and the west will still only provide Ukraine enough material for bare-survival.

This is why leaders like Biden and Scholz will be regarded in the same light as the western leaders of the 1930s. Their legacy will not be pretty.

 

[Anzacpaul]

What you’re saying it’s every man (country) for himself. If a country gets invaded it shouldn’t receive any military help from other countries especially from the USA. They should just accept being invaded because we don’t want an escalation.
If New Zealand was being invaded we shouldn’t give them a few bushmasters because we’d only be escalating the conflict. If Indonesia invaded Papua New Guinea we shouldn’t give them a few bushmasters because we’d only be escalating the conflict. If China invaded Taiwan we shouldn’t give them a few bushmasters because we’d only be escalating the conflict.

Exactly, Russia just has to announce they're invading Australia and if anyone fights they'll launch nukes, and our old pie loving mate would be rolling over into submission.

 

[Baldur]

What Putin’s very long table tells us about Russia’s inner workings

The striking images of the white and glistening 20-feet-long table generated mockery and memes.

www.nbcnews.com

"Putin’s health was the reason for the extra-long furniture, according to the Kremlin.

Fears about Putin getting seriously ill likely played a part in the decision to distance the leaders, according to Ben Noble, an associate professor of Russian politics at University College London"



A man this terrified of risking his health is not going to kill himself by launching nukes in a WW3 manner.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Exactly, Russia just has to announce they're invading Australia and if anyone fights they'll launch nukes, and our old pie loving mate would be rolling over into submission.

Yeh I Really hope if China decides to invade Australia and annex us that no one helps us and our government choose not to fight in case it escalates things

 

[Aussie in exile]

OK mate, you tell me how likely it is for parliamentarily legislated "tax reform" to solve a f***ing thing.
This garbage has been circulated for the last 30 years.

No nation can "carry out socially inclusive tax reform" because globalised financial capital would immediately disinvest to a more profitable destination. The result would be the complete collapse of the national economy.

That is why billionaires, finance institutions (Black Rock, Vanguard etc) keep exponentially ballooning. No national economy can withstand their pressure.

The stockholders dominate every single corporation and they will move elsewhere if their rate of profit on their stock portfolios is not rising fast enough.

There are no "systemic fixes".

That is why, in EVERY major capitalist nation, military expenditure is escalating, while social expenditure is being decimated.

This is why Trump has Elon Musk at his side constantly: Musk is going to spearhead a massive attack on social spending in order to a) increase the profits of the oligarchs, and b) allow the US to keep ramping up its military spending.

Military spending is necessary so that the US can keep prosecuting its criminal wars of aggression to seize natural resources and sources of cheap labour.

This is also why the Russian economy is leading to mass impoverishment: it is being subordinated to the war drive against Ukraine.

It is also why Ukraine is in a state of economic disaster, with the working class living in extreme poverty: everything must be sacrificed for the war on behalf of US imperialism.

The only fix is to abolish the entire capitalist system.

How's the Russian campaign going in Syria?

 

[Zidane98]

What Putin’s very long table tells us about Russia’s inner workings

The striking images of the white and glistening 20-feet-long table generated mockery and memes.

www.nbcnews.com

"Putin’s health was the reason for the extra-long furniture, according to the Kremlin.

Fears about Putin getting seriously ill likely played a part in the decision to distance the leaders, according to Ben Noble, an associate professor of Russian politics at University College London"

View attachment 2185013

A man this terrified of risking his health is not going to kill himself by launching nukes in a WW3 manner.

He is also terrified of covid. Got his mate Donnie to supply him with covid tests when they were a dime a dozen. There was talk during peak covid anyone that wanted to meet with him had to isolate for two weeks first, be tested regularly and meet inside a hermetically sealed room.

Unfortunately this appears to be the time his delusions of being a modern day Tsar were accelerated by reading books about Catherine the great etc during lockdown.

This is not a man that is firing nukes.

 

[Visions]

Putin really making sure that Russia never get a look in with the new government in Syria. Say goodbye to any Russian bases in the country.

This might be also benefit Ukraine in that Syria was the place that Russia banished their generals after they messed up and faltered in Ukraine. Now they have to send them back.

Amazing the hypocrisy from Russia, Iran, Turkey who are all wishing the best for the new authority, considering they have been the ones fighting against them all these years bringing them nothing but genocide and misery.

Watching Jake Broe, there are thoughts that Iran & Belarus regimes could be next to go based on Iran's lack of action for Syria and Belarus's staged elections.

Iran's influence has definitely diminished in the region too with Hezbollah and Hamas weakened and not being able to prop up Syria. You did have mass protests there not too long ago but they were quashed. Is it time for another round?

 

[Zidane98]

No more Russian gas transit via Ukraine to transistria

 

[wannabejack]

Reminding russia of its failures.
Hopefully their failures continue.

 

[wannabejack]

Ukraine won't trade young soldiers' lives for better weapons, Zelensky says

"The priority should be providing missiles and lowering Russia's military potential, not Ukraine's draft age. The goal should be to preserve as many lives as possible, not to preserve weapons in storage."

kyivindependent.com

"We must not compensate the lack of equipment and training with the youth of soldiers," Zelensky said on X.

"The priority should be providing missiles and lowering Russia's military potential, not Ukraine's draft age. The goal should be to preserve as many lives as possible, not to preserve weapons in storage."

For those who think neither leader is concerned about the loss of lives, it’s only Putin who doesn’t care how many lives are lost!

 

[Anzacpaul]

View attachment 2185164
Reminding russia of its failures.
Hopefully their failures continue.

Playing with fire there I would've thought.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Ukraine won't trade young soldiers' lives for better weapons, Zelensky says

"The priority should be providing missiles and lowering Russia's military potential, not Ukraine's draft age. The goal should be to preserve as many lives as possible, not to preserve weapons in storage."

kyivindependent.com

For those who think neither leader is concerned about the loss of lives, it’s only Putin who doesn’t care how many lives are lost!

Correct Putin doesn't care how many Russian die as none of his family are serving in Ukraine.
Lets not forget this is all about Putin's ego and Little man Syndrome.