Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Zidane98]

All quiet from the Russian apologists on these threads as regards Russia and Putin's humiliation in Syria.

All quiet on nuke threats too. Surely humiliating Putin is risking nuclear armageddon isn't it?

Turkey's involved from imperialist NATO too.

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

All quiet on nuke threats too. Surely humiliating Putin is risking nuclear armageddon isn't it?

Turkey's involved from imperialist NATO too.

Watching Jake Broe, there are thoughts that Iran & Belarus regimes could be next to go based on Iran's lack of action for Syria and Belarus's staged elections.

 

[Zidane98]

Watching Jake Broe, there are thoughts that Iran & Belarus regimes could be next to go based on Iran's lack of action for Syria and Belarus's staged elections.

Belarus is a bit of a nothing state, run by a potato tsar on behalf of a wannabe tsar. Geopolitically not that important.

I would say Iran is being told what do re: Syria by Putin.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[wannabejack]

Pic from Assad’s house warming party.
“Welcome to the neighbourhood.”

 

[Zidane98]

View attachment 2184582
Pic from Assad’s house warming party.
“Welcome to the neighbourhood.”

Would that house warming party be held in a 5th floor apartment by any chance? Asking for a friend.

 

[Zidane98]

Pathetic attempt by Putin's Romanian puppet to rustle up support. Looks like Romania was correct to nullify the election round results.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Andre]

Yup.

And just by way of an update;

View attachment 2184376

The bits underlined in red is a built in feature of the Russian (/Soviet) military. Everything is dictated from the top, with the ranks just there to pass orders along. Western militaries are built around Mission Command, where outlines and objectives are given, but if circumstances change sub-ordinates can adapt as required.

When you have to set blocking forces behind your troops, so it's charge or be shot in the back, you aren't empowering your troops to do anything except strictly what's ordered. No one volunteers for meat wave attacks.

As regards Syria, if you're told to stay on base and you find out going 10 km's down the road to take on rebels in vunerable positions would help, you stay on base. It's why the Russian's lose so many staff officers and run around like headless chooks when their officers are killed. They don't know the plan or what to do. Initiative is a dirty word. The Chinese aren't as stupid as the Russians, but in a war would still face the same fundamental issue, that initiative and free thought are the opposite of obedience to the State and Party, so you can't allow too much.

 

[BobbyMorri]

I would back Turkey to beat Russia in a war nowadays. Heck, they already beat Russia in Armenia. so, 2-0 to the Turks.

Russia has spent 400 years bashing up the Turks. One thinks if Russia continues its run of "success", Central Asia could be next. More Turkey and China, less Russia.

Turkey may be a part of NATO, but they very much do there own thing.

 

[CD Xbow]

43,000. This is the first time I have seen a figure for Ukrainian soldiers KIA from President Z. 370,000 wounded, half of whom return to combat.

Ukraine has lost 43,000 soldiers in action since start of invasion, Zelensky says

This figure contrasts a claim made earlier the same day on Dec. 8 by U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, who wrote on his Truth Social platform that Ukrainian military losses had reached "400,000 soldiers, and many more civilians."

kyivindependent.com

 

[Baldur]

 

[IlovethePies]

^^ It is truly wonderful that the Albanese government is gifting Bushmasters to Ukraine so that they can be used in the US proxy war against Russia.

It is truly wonderful that hospitals are getting their budgets slashed to the bone, waiting times in emergency are causing the deaths of kids; it is truly wonderful that public schools don't have enough teachers and classes are taking place in dilapidated buildings; it is truly wonderful that the NDIS is getting eviscerated because those with disabilities are a burden to the war effort; it is truly wonderful that Aboriginal kids are getting locked up in prison because they try to steal food when they have none at home....

It is truly wonderful that all these things are happening, so that the Australian government can afford to gift Bushmasters to Ukraine to help the US in its war drive against Russia, not to mention all the nuclear submarines and missiles that the Albanese government is buying in order to help the US in its planned war against China.....

...I like the way you think...

 

[RonSon]

^^ It is truly wonderful that the Albanese government is gifting Bushmasters to Ukraine so that they can be used in the US proxy war against Russia.

It is truly wonderful that hospitals are getting their budgets slashed to the bone, waiting times in emergency are causing the deaths of kids; it is truly wonderful that public schools don't have enough teachers and classes are taking place in dilapidated buildings; it is truly wonderful that the NDIS is getting eviscerated because those with disabilities are a burden to the war effort; it is truly wonderful that Aboriginal kids are getting locked up in prison because they try to steal food when they have none at home....

It is truly wonderful that all these things are happening, so that the Australian government can afford to gift Bushmasters to Ukraine to help the US in its war drive against Russia, not to mention all the nuclear submarines and missiles that the Albanese government is buying in order to help the US in its planned war against China.....

...I like the way you think...

Oh lawd.

You know very well that funding to assist Ukraine is not the reason those things are not being funded.

 

[IlovethePies]

Oh lawd.

You know very well that funding to assist Ukraine is not the reason those things are not being funded.

Huh??

This is just so stupid.

If the money for nuclear submarines, Bushmasters, advanced missiles in Northern Australia were not allocated for these purposes, then the Australian government could use it instead to ensure that hospitals, schools, the disabled, the mentally unwell, Aboriginal people were better cared for.

One of the main reasons why social spending is being gutted is to fund military expenditure.

This is happening throughout the world.

 

[tricknologist]

Alternatively, we could simply deregulate zoning to build more houses and develop a more equitable and efficient tax system. It's telling that you zone in on giving Ukraine some bushmasters (which is largely irrelevant from a budgetary perspective) and not actual reforms that would fix wider systemic issues. Anything to support Russia's imperial agenda, I suppose.

 

[wannabejack]

^^ It is truly wonderful that the Albanese government is gifting Bushmasters to Ukraine so that they can be used in the US proxy war against Russia.

It is truly wonderful that hospitals are getting their budgets slashed to the bone, waiting times in emergency are causing the deaths of kids; it is truly wonderful that public schools don't have enough teachers and classes are taking place in dilapidated buildings; it is truly wonderful that the NDIS is getting eviscerated because those with disabilities are a burden to the war effort; it is truly wonderful that Aboriginal kids are getting locked up in prison because they try to steal food when they have none at home....

It is truly wonderful that all these things are happening, so that the Australian government can afford to gift Bushmasters to Ukraine to help the US in its war drive against Russia, not to mention all the nuclear submarines and missiles that the Albanese government is buying in order to help the US in its planned war against China.....

...I like the way you think...

It is truly wonderful that we can help a country who’s hospitals are getting bombed, who’s kids are being killed and kidnapped; who’s schools don't have enough teachers because those teachers are fighting the war and it’s sad that classes are taking place in bombed buildings; it is sad because some returning soldiers have to live with disabilities they got fighting the war; it is truly sad that Ukrainians are getting locked up in prison, tortured and r*ped because they don’t want to be under russian rule.

It is truly wonderful that the Australian government can afford to gift Bushmasters to Ukraine to help them drive russia out of Ukraine.

 

[IlovethePies]

Alternatively, we could simply deregulate zoning to build more houses and develop a more equitable and efficient tax system. It's telling that you zone in on giving Ukraine some bushmasters (which is largely irrelevant from a budgetary perspective) and not actual reforms that would fix wider systemic issues.

OK mate, you tell me how likely it is for parliamentarily legislated "tax reform" to solve a f***ing thing.
This garbage has been circulated for the last 30 years.

No nation can "carry out socially inclusive tax reform" because globalised financial capital would immediately disinvest to a more profitable destination. The result would be the complete collapse of the national economy.

That is why billionaires, finance institutions (Black Rock, Vanguard etc) keep exponentially ballooning. No national economy can withstand their pressure.

The stockholders dominate every single corporation and they will move elsewhere if their rate of profit on their stock portfolios is not rising fast enough.

There are no "systemic fixes".

That is why, in EVERY major capitalist nation, military expenditure is escalating, while social expenditure is being decimated.

This is why Trump has Elon Musk at his side constantly: Musk is going to spearhead a massive attack on social spending in order to a) increase the profits of the oligarchs, and b) allow the US to keep ramping up its military spending.

Military spending is necessary so that the US can keep prosecuting its criminal wars of aggression to seize natural resources and sources of cheap labour.

This is also why the Russian economy is leading to mass impoverishment: it is being subordinated to the war drive against Ukraine.

It is also why Ukraine is in a state of economic disaster, with the working class living in extreme poverty: everything must be sacrificed for the war on behalf of US imperialism.

The only fix is to abolish the entire capitalist system.

 

[Jello_B]

Load of nonsense. He just watched his client state, one where Russia is actually welcome and not told to **** off for good, have its dictator rolled within 11 days.

Syria is an actual ally of Russia whereas Russia will never be an ally of Ukraine for a long, long time.


And guess what - not a nuke fired despite involvement of Turkey in the overthrow, a NATO state nonetheless.


We also seen Russia also refuse to honor its CSTO obligations in order to assist Armenia who sought assistance under mutual defense.



Russia didn't get involved because it couldn't. Everyone knows Putin isn't firing a nuke. Let's not justify the bullshit threats he constantly makes.

I see a end for Putin similar to Assad in the next few years when too many Russians are fed up with him destroying the sovereignty of Russia just to chase his delusional dreams of a new Russian empire.


Putin's done, it's just a matter of how much damage he does both to Russia and to Ukraine.

You post a lot of crap, repetitively, and are wrong, repeatedly, but I really hope you are right in this post. Russians need to overthrow Putin as hard as that will be for them.

 

[IlovethePies]

It is truly wonderful that we can help a country who’s hospitals are getting bombed, who’s kids are being killed and kidnapped; who’s schools don't have enough teachers because those teachers are fighting the war and it’s sad that classes are taking place in bombed buildings; it is sad because some returning soldiers have to live with disabilities they got fighting the war; it is truly sad that Ukrainians are getting locked up in prison, tortured and r*ped because they don’t want to be under russian rule.

It is truly wonderful that the Australian government can afford to gift Bushmasters to Ukraine to help them drive russia out of Ukraine.

So if, as you explain above, war is causing all these horrific social issues, why do you think it is wonderful that Australia is helping the US to keep escalating the war?

 

[Zidane98]

A Scott Ritter special

 

[IlovethePies]

You post a lot of crap, repetitively, and are wrong, repeatedly, but I really hope you are right in this post. Russians need to overthrow Putin as hard as that will be for them.

Zidane is an idiot who is never right.

But, you are close to the truth. The Russian working class has to overthrow Putin...but with the correct perspective.

They have to call on the Ukrainian workers to overthrow the Zelensky regime, and both to seize political and economic control on behalf of both the Russian and UKrainian working class.

Then, turn to the working class in Europe, which is being smashed by austerity measures and call for unity with them.

This requires a political party with the program, knowledge and historical perspective to inform and sustain such a struggle.

This party exists, and its website is wsws.org

 

[Nothing]

^^ It is truly wonderful that the Albanese government is gifting Bushmasters to Ukraine so that they can be used in the US proxy war against Russia.

It is truly wonderful that hospitals are getting their budgets slashed to the bone, waiting times in emergency are causing the deaths of kids; it is truly wonderful that public schools don't have enough teachers and classes are taking place in dilapidated buildings; it is truly wonderful that the NDIS is getting eviscerated because those with disabilities are a burden to the war effort; it is truly wonderful that Aboriginal kids are getting locked up in prison because they try to steal food when they have none at home....

It is truly wonderful that all these things are happening, so that the Australian government can afford to gift Bushmasters to Ukraine to help the US in its war drive against Russia, not to mention all the nuclear submarines and missiles that the Albanese government is buying in order to help the US in its planned war against China.....

...I like the way you think...

State vs federal government. Perhaps worth looking into it.

 

[IlovethePies]

State vs federal government. Perhaps worth looking into it.

Hi Nothing.
Don't believe there is anything worth looking into there.

They use the supposed differences to blame each other and palm off responsiblity on each other.

They are all part of the same suffocating parliamentary dead end from which the working class must totally liberate itself.

 

[Smeg Head]

While people might draw a parallel between Putler and Assad, don't expect him to be toppled like that. For a start, realistically must russians support him.