Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Mobbs]

Agree both are newsworthy and condemnable as would be any other similar event. The only thing that supports a different rate of attention right here is the forum where it's referenced.

 

[jatz14]

You have to wonder what the response would have been had the UK decided to respond to IRA terrorism the way Israel has responded to Hamas?

If Irish people were forced into safe areas, that the UK only rarely, and insufficiently, allowed food and aid into, then bombed anyway.

If hospitals and civilian infrastructure was repeatedly bombed because IRA, but proof was almost never provided?

Would we be saying they were taking insufficient regard, or would we be calling it a deliberate and concerted effort to destroy any possibility of even the semblance of a functioning Irish state.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jello_B]

Given Russia invaded Ukraine, unprovoked, whilst Israel responded (in over the top fashion) from an attack, Russia deliberately targets civilians, whilst Israel it is a lack of regard for them, Russia should be the one that has the student protestors and others out on the streets. That Israel (a functioning democracy, for all it's flaws), gets the protests rather than Russia, shows there is a strong streak of Anti-Semitism running through them, whatever they say otherwise.

Which is why most would go with Gazan as most newsworthy, despite Israel not targeting them to deliberately kill mothers and children.

Ask stupid questions get stupid answers.

 

[Mobbs]

Ground zero: How a Ukrainian boy battling cancer and his mother survived Russia’s missile strike on children’s hospital
Natalia Yermak - Staff Writer Kyiv Independent - July 10, 2024

Ground zero: How a Ukrainian boy battling cancer and his mother survived Russia’s missile strike on children’s hospital

At about 10:30 on the morning of July 8, just minutes before a Russian missile slammed into Kyiv’s main hospital for children, 4-year-old Dima Dorontsov was waiting to receive his final dose of chemotherapy at the oncology department with his mother Viktoria Zavoloka alongside. He’s spent much

kyivindependent.com

At about 10:30 on the morning of July 8, just minutes before a Russian missile slammed into Kyiv’s main hospital for children, 4-year-old Dima Dorontsov was waiting to receive his final dose of chemotherapy at the oncology department with his mother Viktoria Zavoloka alongside.

He’s spent much of his life in hospitals. After almost two years of treating abdominal cancer at the modern Okhmatdyt hospital, he called it home. Most of the about 15 other children around him were already connected to their drug dispensers, slowly releasing lifesaving chemicals into their blood.

That’s when they heard the first distant sound of an explosion from Russia’s latest massive barrage of missile strikes targeting Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities that killed 33 and injured 121, Zavoloka told the Kyiv Independent. Then, she said, they heard a closer boom that set off car alarms nearby.

Another hit nearby sent a shudder through the windows just after nurses asked the parents to dress up the kids who were still in morning shorts and pajamas. Dima and other patients who were able to walk were moving to the corridors with their caretakers.

“After that, the department chief only managed to say – ‘let’s unplug the kids and move to the shelter’ – and the main hit happened,” Zavoloka said.

“Everything shook. Children started to scream. Some started to cry. The windows were blown out,” she said.

While the nurses rushed to unplug all the children from drug dispensers, Zavoloka grabbed some water for Dima, his documents, and two tiny blankets. They took the stairs descending to the underground floor with the other patients. Zavoloka remembers how scary it was to see shattered glass and smoke and to hear the sound of sirens.

“It was dark, stuffy, there was dust all over,” she said. But the scariest thing for her was the blood she saw on the floor as they walked downstairs.

”You could see that someone had walked there bleeding, and people’s footsteps had smudged the blood,” she said.

Downstairs, over a hundred people were packed in an underground part of the hospital. Frightened children were crying alongside caretakers, doctors, nurses, and visitors. It was hard to breathe through the smoke as a female voice kept alarming them over loudspeakers: “Attention, a fire has started in the building.”

“I could see the fear in Dima’s eyes, but he was behaving so well, didn’t cry,” Zavoloka said.

Children treated for cancer are normally required to avoid contact with other people, as their immune system is severely weakened by treatment. With the exception of immobile children, who Zavoloka believes were carried directly outside after the strike, most of the cancer patients gathered in the underground corridor, exposed to more human contact than many of them have seen in months.

Fearing that waiting for another possible strike in a crowd would be more dangerous for children than going outside, parents and nurses of the cancer ward decided to try moving somewhere else.

It was only minutes later as they sat outside along the walls of the hospital with other patients seeing many ambulances, police, and firefighters rushing past them to a large column of smoke that Zavoloka began to grasp what had happened.

“First, we all thought that the rocket was intercepted, and the debris fell somewhere on the (hospital) territory,” she said. Once outside, as their mobile phones reconnected with telecommunication networks, cell phones all around her started “ringing like crazy.”

Soon afterward, the children undergoing cancer treatment were guided to a recently built bomb shelter.

“There, you’re starting to relax, trying not to cry, and replying to all the messages,” Zavoloka said.

The air raid alarm had ended by then. Some parents went back to the cancer ward to grab the essentials for the kids like phones and medicine.

Zavoloka took the task of wiping the blood from the leg of a girl named Kira whose mother had gone back to grab her medication. Kira was one of the weaker patients in the ward, wounded by the window glass shards at her bed as her doctor was disconnecting her IV drip at the moment of impact.

“You’re sitting by this child, wiping her blood and thinking: ‘Why? Why did it have to happen to our children, who are fighting for their lives every day anyway?” Zavoloka said.

Although she wiped her hands afterward, Zavoloka said that the smell of blood was stuck in her nose until she came back home with Dima late in the evening.

But some of the Okhmatdyt patients like Dima and Kira, who were in the middle of a complex treatment, couldn’t simply evacuate from the most advanced children's hospital in Ukraine, even after it was bombed by Russia, for fear of the rapid deterioration of their condition without proper medication.

This is why the doctors and nurses scrambled through the smoke and dust around the hospital's surviving facilities to find the most essential drugs and medical equipment. One by one, they hauled the items to the shelter and began connecting Kira and other critical patients to drug dispensers.

At the time, Zavoloka said she and other parents still hoped to return to the ward soon.

“We hadn’t seen the damage with our own eyes by then, and didn’t know that half of the toxicology building was blown apart, along with the windows all around,” she said.

When they started getting internet connection on their cell phones again, they learned the extent of the damage from pictures on Telegram and Ukrainian news outlets. In contrast to an older building of the hospital which partially collapsed, the new building with the cancer department suffered broken windows and damaged to the facade, but its structure remained intact.

Luckily for Dima, who was also connected to the drug dispenser at the shelter after the strike to receive his last dose of chemicals in the current round of treatment, he was allowed to go home afterward.

Around 4 p.m. that day, Dima and his mother were picked up by Dima’s father who drove for hours in a neighbor’s car from their village in Zhytomyr Oblast.

Dima was among 465 children who were temporarily discharged from Okhmatdyt. According to a statement by Ukraine’s Health Ministry, 94 children were urgently transferred to other hospitals in Kyiv in the aftermath of the attack. Another 68 patients stayed at Okhmatdyt for further treatment.

On July 10, one boy died at one of Kyiv’s hospitals after being evacuated from Okhmatdyt’s intensive care unit, according to Ukraine’s Health Minister Viktor Lyashko.

Days later, in the comfort of their home, gradually coming to terms with the shocking experience, Zavoloka is anxiously looking for options to continue Dima’s treatment, like many other parents of Okhmatdyt patients.

“It’s unclear when Okhmatdyt will be restored,” she told the Kyiv Independent in a phone interview as Dima’s cheerful shouts sounded in the background.

“He might start feeling bad next Monday, and maybe we need to find where to treat him ourselves,” she said.

Zavoloka was contacted by the Ukrainian charity foundation Tabletochki which consistently provided expensive medications for Dima, as well as many other children with cancer treated at Okhmatdyt.

“We continue to help them as usual,” said Yuliya Nohovitsyna, the foundation’s representative. “As before, we purchase unavailable medicines, pay for diagnostic tests, buy special nutrition, and accommodate families from other cities in rented apartments.”

As she said in a statement for the Kyiv Independent, the foundation is in contact with Okhmatdyt doctors, other hospitals that are now hosting their patients, and the patient’s parents about the opportunity to evacuate the children abroad for further treatment.

Requests from parents for treatment abroad for their children through the SAFER Ukraine Initiative have spiked in recent days, according to Nohovitsyna.

But Zavoloka hopes to find opportunities to continue treating Dima in Ukraine, where he’s been happily playing with his older sister and younger brother since returning home after the attack, telling his relatives that he “saw the blood and the rocket.”

“It appears that he was not affected by it, but he understands and remembers everything. Now he’s overjoyed that the doctor let him go home and is distracted by it,” Zavoloka said.

But between calls with Dima’s doctor, communicating with the parents of other children being treated for cancer, and the responsibility of caring for all of her three kids, Zavoloka keeps thinking back to the moment the Russian missile slammed into the Okhmatdyt hospital compound.

“I’m constantly wondering what could have happened if that missile had hit just 50 meters closer to the new building,” she said, referring to the hospital’s main complex.

“Would we be lucky then? Could Dima even walk after that and would my other children ever see their mother again?”

 

[Mobbs]

Lukashenko recently flubbed his words in a statement and created a new word for the dictionary when saying "peacefire" instead of "ceasefire".

It's an ironic error that the therapy industry would have a field day with, as the general belief is that RF translates "ceasefire" into "you guys stop fighting, we go get more guns and resume invading".

Medvedev: Russia should prepare to seize the entire territory of Ukraine after Moscow and Kyiv sign a peace treaty, — Medvedev. The deputy head of the Security Council of the Russian Federation described what "peace" with Russia might look like.

"Even after signing the papers and accepting defeat, sooner or later some of the radicals in Ukraine will return to power... And then it will be time to finally crush the reptile. At this moment, Russia will have to drive a long steel nail into the lid of the coffin of the Bandera quasi-state, destroy the remnants of its bloody legacy and return the lands to the bosom of the Russian land." - [Denys Davydov TG]

 

[wannabejack]

Lukashenko recently flubbed his words in a statement and created a new word for the dictionary when saying "peacefire" instead of "ceasefire".

It's an ironic error that the therapy industry would have a field day with, as the general belief is that RF translates "ceasefire" into "you guys stop fighting, we go get more guns and resume invading".

Medvedev: Russia should prepare to seize the entire territory of Ukraine after Moscow and Kyiv sign a peace treaty, — Medvedev. The deputy head of the Security Council of the Russian Federation described what "peace" with Russia might look like.

"Even after signing the papers and accepting defeat, sooner or later some of the radicals in Ukraine will return to power... And then it will be time to finally crush the reptile. At this moment, Russia will have to drive a long steel nail into the lid of the coffin of the Bandera quasi-state, destroy the remnants of its bloody legacy and return the lands to the bosom of the Russian land." - [Denys Davydov TG]

So we know what russia will do after "signing the papers". Medvedev didn't need to say it because history tells us that this what they'll do.
"Even after signing the papers and accepting defeat, sooner or later some of the radicals in (Ukraine) russia will return to power..."

 

[Mobbs]

Polish FM: Several thousand people already registered to join Ukrainian Legion in Poland
"Poland is set to train and equip Ukrainian volunteers before sending them to Ukraine as a cohesive unit, according to Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski."

Points of note:

• Reported from current NATO summit in Washington. Those quoted in the article include Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, Polish Prime Minister Tusk & Polish Foreign Minister Sikirski
• Roles mentioned include intelligence activities, cydbersecurity & countering disinformation
• These are Ukrainian citizens living in Poland. Not homegrown Poles. Fully voluntary.
• Both refugees from the war & residents who arrived beforehand have signed up.
• Some who sign up say that the opportunity for sufficient training is an important lever, suggesting poor training within Ukraine may have previously been an inhibitor.
• Not the first mention of this. Originally made the news on 8th July via Euromaiden Press [here]

Article (Euromaidan Press 11th July):

Polish FM: Several thousand people already registered to join Ukrainian Legion in Poland - Euromaidan Press

Poland is set to train and equip Ukrainian volunteers before sending them to Ukraine as a cohesive unit, according to Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski.

euromaidanpress.com

During the NATO Public Forum at the Alliance’s summit in Washington, Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said that thousands of people have already signed up to join the Ukrainian Legion, a new volunteer military unit in Poland.

According to Sikorski, Poland is preparing to train the country’s first Ukrainian brigade, which is composed of volunteers. He said that several thousand have already registered to participate in this conscription.

According to Sikorski, there are up to a million Ukrainians of both genders in Poland.

The Foreign Minister highlighted an interesting trend among the volunteers: “Many of them really want to serve and rotate their compatriots, but they say: we don’t want to be sent into battle without being properly trained and equipped.”

Sikorski also said that Poland would take on the responsibility of training and equipping these volunteers. The plan is to eventually provide them to Ukraine as a unit with the right to return to Poland after completing their rotation.

Sikorski emphasized the potential impact of such initiatives, saying, “If every European country did this, Ukraine would have several brigades.”

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk created the Ukrainian Legion, a volunteer unit on Polish territory, on 8 July.

According to Zelenskyy, every Ukrainian citizen can sign a contract with the Armed Forces of Ukraine to enter the formation.

The security agreement with Poland includes non-military cooperation in intelligence activities, cybersecurity, and countering Russian disinformation.

Tusk described the agreement as a significant document and reminded that similar deals on mutual security commitments were signed by Kyiv and 19 countries.

 

[Mobbs]

Large fire in an outer Moscow suburb. Fears that gas cyclinders within the complex are at risk of explosion.

"The cause of the fire at the ceramic tile warehouse has not been announced." - [ASTRA]

View attachment IMG_8819.mp4

 

[Mobbs]

Very worthwhile recent chat between TV Rain's Katya Kotrikadze and Victoria Nuland.

 

[Mobbs]

NATO live stream (at least that's what the stream says):

 

[Jamolad]

Watching AFP/ASIO press conference; reckon we might be missing a couple of Russian apologists moving forward

 

[Visions]

So we know what russia will do after "signing the papers". Medvedev didn't need to say it because history tells us that this what they'll do.
"Even after signing the papers and accepting defeat, sooner or later some of the radicals in (Ukraine) russia will return to power..."

But the muppet vatniks with half a brain cell between them in this forum keep on telling us that Russia really wanted a ceasefire and negotiation at the start of the war, and wouldn’t dream of continuing it….

 

[Visions]

Geez. And people wonder why others think Biden is incapable of continuing for another term.

Zelensky’s media press conference later in the day was cancelled, probably so journalists couldn’t ask him about this.

 

[wannabejack]

Australia pledges biggest ever boost for Ukraine as NATO calls out China as Russia's 'enabler'

The Australian government is set to give Ukraine another $250 million in military support — its largest contribution to the war effort to date.

www.abc.net.au

"When we witnessed, a few years ago, a no-limits agreement being signed between China and Russia on the eve of Russia's illegal invasion in Ukraine … the events of eastern Europe became fundamentally important to us," Mr Marles said at a meeting of the Asia-Pacific leaders.

 

[CD Xbow]

Geez. And people wonder why others think Biden is incapable of continuing for another term.

Zelensky’s media press conference later in the day was cancelled, probably so journalists couldn’t ask him about this.

Biden's campaign is giving the whole 'Weekend at Bernie's' vibe.
Stupid old man.
Too much at stake to give a win to Mr Trump.

 

[Zidane98]

Biden's campaign is giving the whole 'Weekend at Bernie's' vibe.
Stupid old man.
Too much at stake to give a win to Mr Trump.

If the republicans didn't have a bumbling fascist running they would win easily. Time for the dems to get someone else in. Even if Biden were to win (and this would be only possible because he running against a moron) him completing a 4 year term isn't likely.

 

[Zidane98]

At least someone in Russia has a conscience

 

[Mobbs]

Not yet examined in a court setting but just to run ahead and prejudice this post I find it disturbing such things can happen but on the other hand reassuring that it can be uncovered and responded to. Up to 15 years jail is a bit light on for national defence security but a good start.

"We allege the woman was undertaking non-declared travel to Russia, whilst she was on long-term leave from the Australian Defence Force. We allege that whilst she was in Russia, she instructed her hisband - who remained in Australia - on how to log into her official work account from their Brisbane home. We allege that her husband would access requested material and would send to his wife in Russia."

 

[swingdog]

North supporter?

 

[Mobbs]

Another more extensive video here which allays my fears about 15 years for such a breach. The 15 year max is for (laypersoning it here) prepping to commit an espionage act. Should it be found that an actual breach occurred, the margin blows out to 25 yrs jailtime onward to potentially life.

 

[Zidane98]

North supporter?

While North is shit they are probably well on their way to winning the vatnik minor premiership.

I believe Freo might be the only competition?

 

[Aussie in exile]

Not yet examined in a court setting but just to run ahead and prejudice this post I find it disturbing such things can happen but on the other hand reassuring that it can be uncovered and responded to. Up to 15 years jail is a bit light on for national defence security but a good start.

"We allege the woman was undertaking non-declared travel to Russia, whilst she was on long-term leave from the Australian Defence Force. We allege that whilst she was in Russia, she instructed her hisband - who remained in Australia - on how to log into her official work account from their Brisbane home. We allege that her husband would access requested material and would send to his wife in Russia."

Deport them ASAP

 

[Mobbs]

Named in this report As Kira Koralev (not Koraleva?) and Igor (assume Koralev)

Deport them ASAP

Why free them? We have jails.

Anyway, it's only suspicion at this case. But as we say in Australia: SussAF.

 

[kalex6251]

will oz media breathlessly pursue dutton on why they were granted citizenship under his watch (the woman was likely recruited by the army whilst he was defence minister - dont quote me on that tho )

 

[The Sultan]

At least someone in Russia has a conscience

Looking forward to trump wishing them well