Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Mobbs]

The blackouts problem in Russia [one example per OVD-info] which led to protests in Krasnodar will surely just be smoothed over with some arrests and threats. The issues with power will likely be an ongoing problem at least for some time - not to downplay that Ukraine for sure experience the same issues following repeated attacks on generation infrastructure (specifically hydro-gen plants).

I had a quick look at a recent video from Anna from Ukraine. I know her heart is in the right place but lets face it, this is a youtuber/influencer as much as a Ukrainian patriot in defence of human rights for a people to exist - so it's a bit of lip service too (kind of why I don't care to look at Operator Starsky's tropey content anymore). I'd rather look for info and content than I would for rallying and preaching.

My biggest issue was with her initial off-the-cuff assertion that protests are rare in Russia. This is demonstrably untrue (or worded cynically). Within the first minutes of listening to her statements I was revisited by images of protest responses to Orsk's dam wall failures, Bashkir unrest re political persecution, road upkeep and trash accumulation in Novosibirsk and even the open cull laws further east on stray dogs. Russians protest all the time. If her point was that protests in Russia come with a backfoot fear of reprisals and stampout incarceration/abuse, then she has a point. But Russian's are still protesting when they see value in it. In fact, unrest feels to be rising over time, which might be suggestive that they have something bigger on their mind to oppose, and lesser issues could be a perfect testing ground to guage what the guys in the khrushchyovka apartment next door are feeling.

Protests happen for various reasons, resulting action from authorities differ, and the average Josef learns from every example.

Note: I am not counting war-relevant protests such as the original protests 2022, the war wives ongoing appeals and continuing lone wolf attacks on military enlistment offices - also ongoing records of political suppression based on anti-war statements which anyone can get a sense of via the OVD-Info resource. [Nemtsov protest] [Buryat anti-empirical movement] ["I'm against Putin"] ["Cut the KGB] [Animal rights activism] (there had been protests also re anti-LBGTQ legislation but I could not locate examples)

Anna's video:

 

[Mobbs]

This is a corker! Offensive toilet paper:

Интернет-цензура и блокировка контента российскими регуляторами | ОВД-Инфо

С началом войны российские регуляторы стали чаще блокировать контент в интернете. Так, к июню 2023 года по соображениям «военной цензуры» под блокировки попали по меньшей мере 200 тысяч ресурсов, а всего за год Роскомнадзор заблокировал более 670 материалов.

ovd.info

The Preobrazhensky District Court of Moscow has banned the pages of four online stores in Russia that sold souvenir toilet paper with an image of a thousand-ruble note. The Verstka publication drew attention to the rulings.

The court found that toilet paper offends the religious feelings of believers, since the 1997 banknote depicts a monument to Yaroslav the Wise, "classified as a saint and revered by the Russian Orthodox Church."

The pages of the stores "Startex," "Filkina Gramota," "Glavchudo," and "Sima-Lend" were blocked. The complaint about the toilet paper was filed by prosecutor Oleg Alypov.

 

[rank and file]

tRump owes Putin and Putin will call the debt in if tRump gets elected.

Conspiracy board.
What exactly does he owe?

 

[Mobbs]

A poll of RF warships remaining in Sevastopol harbour:

 

[Visions]

https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine...ot-stage-of-war-by-end-of-2024-zelensky-says/
Ukraine could try to end the hot stage of the war with Russia by the end of the year, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in an interview with the BBC on July 18.

"I believe that if we are united and follow, for example, the format of the peace summit, we can end the hot stage of the war. We can try to do it by the end of this year," Zelensky said.

Bear in mind this is a big difference from earlier rhetoric about we will not stop until Ukraine's borders are reaffirmed(mid 2023). Now it's not a peace now signal but the change of direction is notable

Cool article.

Can you now actually provide a link where Zelensky says Ukraine wont last until the end of the year as per your claim, and what was asked of you in the first place?

 

[Visions]

The three day thing was pure Russian propaganda and their hopeless supply lines were found out. Quote me please on this?
We're entering the third year, things change eh

Just because they couldn’t achieve the three day win doesn’t mean it was propaganda! Make no mistake, they actually thought thats all it would take.

Spending many millions over years to bribe their agents and officials in Ukraine to lay down, sending in their elite squads of VDV paratroopers on the first day of conflict so that they could capture Kyiv airport and create an air bridge, to which would follow on the second day troops and heavy equipment, which would then roll in Kyiv city centre and capture government buildings on day 3 leading to an overthrow of the government and installation of a puppet regime.

Was supposed to be straight out of the 68 invasion of Czechoslovakia playbook, but hey things went a bit pear shaped for the Russians since then.

You want to know what the real propaganda from the Russians that arose out of it was? Terrorist Putin saying everything was (and still is) going to plan.

 

[Mobbs]

This was a perfect video for someone like me who is largely ignorant of the economic side of things. Lots of good and bad.

 

[Mobbs]

Oh Biden has dropped out. I get that Trump getting elected is essentially a given, but there will still be an election and whoever slides in to replace him will need a Ukraine line and it'll be super interesting to see who it is and what they put forward on the topic.

 

[Cap]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

Had to wait a reasonable amount of time after bombing a childrens hospital to come back a fight the good fight.?

 

[Mobbs]

The Russian disease sinks its claws deep into Georgia as it transitions insiduously to another Belarus. [K1 TG]

Georgian volunteers who fought for Ukraine began to be summoned for questioning by the State Security Service of Georgia

At least two such cases are known. Activist of the Anti-Occupation Movement Lasha Chigladze said that he was interrogated as part of the case about preparing a coup. His lawyer called the case political.

As the commander of the Georgian National Legion fighting for Ukraine, Mamuka Mamulashvili, told The Insider, about 300 people from the formation he leads are wanted in Georgia.

Russian and Georgian special services today work synchronously. Many of our guys who were returning to Georgia were advised by the Georgian special services to leave. They were told: “There are a lot of Russians here, we can no longer protect you, we ask you to leave.”

 

[Mobbs]

Laying down with dogs. Slovakia adds its voice to Hungary in decrying Ukraine's block of the Druzhba Pipeline. [DeepState TG]

The Prime Minister of Slovakia, Robert Fico, considers the sanctions against the Russian "Lukoil" "senseless". In a telephone conversation with the Prime Minister of Ukraine Denys Shmyhal, Fitso criticized Ukraine's decision to stop the transit of Russian oil.

"Slovakia does not intend to be a hostage of Ukrainian-Russian relations, and the decision of the Ukrainian president means that the Slovak oil refinery Slovnaft, which is part of the Hungarian MOL group, will receive 40% less oil than it needs for processing. This will affect not only the Slovakian market, but may also lead to the cessation of oil supplies to Ukraine produced by Slovnaft, which accounts for almost a tenth of all Ukrainian consumption," said the Slovak Prime Minister.

The Ministry of Economy of Slovakia said that "Slovnaft" has already secured the supply of Russian oil from another supplier, and also ordered oil from alternative sources.

 

[Zidane98]

Don't make me quote your rubbish from the early days of this war, Economy collapse/Putin cancer etc etc

Go on, quote away. The facts are your economy has suffered massively from the invasion of Ukraine. If you can't figure out why Putin is pillaging your national wealth fund and gold reserves away you can't be helped. I'll give you a hint - it isn't because the Russian economy is in great shape.

Hate to break it to you but Ukraine has the whole of Europe supporting it and the US for the moment, even if Trump is elected.

Russia's biggest ally that can support it militarily is North Korea which is an embarrassment for Russia. The fact that Putin had to beg Kim Jong for military supplies is telling. This is an indirect admission that Russia is struggling with the invasion.

The three day thing was pure Russian propaganda and their hopeless supply lines were found out. Quote me please on this?
We're entering the third year, things change eh

It isn't propaganda, Putin honestly believed invading Russian troops would be welcomed and Ukraine would fall immediately. Ukraine will never be a vassal state of Russia again, the people have wanted a European pathway for a long time. That is simply reality now and isn't going to change.

Meanwhile in central asia China is schmoozing former USSR states with belt / road project and gradually replacing Russia as the dominant power.

Long term, if Russia wants to get on good terms with Ukraine again, this will have to be the way. Clearly Russia needs to purge the USSR era government. Until then Russia is on the way to becoming North Korea on steroids.

 

[Mobbs]

The Finnish military will conduct exercises near the borders of the Russian Federation, closing the route to the Vaalimaa border checkpoint until the beginning of August

[Donbass today TG]

 

[Aussie in exile]

Conspiracy board.
What exactly does he owe?

If you don't know about the videos that Putin has of tRump with ladies of the night you must have been living in a cave.

 

[Aussie in exile]

My tune?

Don't make me quote your rubbish from the early days of this war, Economy collapse/Putin cancer etc etc

The three day thing was pure Russian propaganda and their hopeless supply lines were found out. Quote me please on this?
We're entering the third year, things change eh

So you've admitted that Russia said it

 

[jatz14]

Conspiracy board.
What exactly does he owe?

Read the Mueller report. Not all of it, just the summary should do.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jatz14]

https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine...ot-stage-of-war-by-end-of-2024-zelensky-says/
Ukraine could try to end the hot stage of the war with Russia by the end of the year, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in an interview with the BBC on July 18.

"I believe that if we are united and follow, for example, the format of the peace summit, we can end the hot stage of the war. We can try to do it by the end of this year," Zelensky said.

Bear in mind this is a big difference from earlier rhetoric about we will not stop until Ukraine's borders are reaffirmed(mid 2023). Now it's not a peace now signal but the change of direction is notable

You making assumptions. And the assumptions are assumptions that support your narrative.

For instance, I could assume Zelensky has intelligence that Russia wants out of the war, and is contemplating giving up territorial demands to achieve this.

Thus, Zelensky could be contemplating possible peace talks, because Russia has changed its tune.

But, assumptions. And, contemplating. So, nothing.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Frank Grimes]

If you don't know about the videos that Putin has of tRump with ladies of the night you must have been living in a cave.

Are these the videos where it's revealed he likes golden showers. Probably explains why he always has an orange tinge on his skin.

 

[Chief]

https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine...ot-stage-of-war-by-end-of-2024-zelensky-says/
Ukraine could try to end the hot stage of the war with Russia by the end of the year, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in an interview with the BBC on July 18.

"I believe that if we are united and follow, for example, the format of the peace summit, we can end the hot stage of the war. We can try to do it by the end of this year," Zelensky said.

Bear in mind this is a big difference from earlier rhetoric about we will not stop until Ukraine's borders are reaffirmed(mid 2023). Now it's not a peace now signal but the change of direction is notable

Will you have a party with your comrades?

 

[rank and file]

If you don't know about the videos that Putin has of tRump with ladies of the night you must have been living in a cave.

The tapes no-one has seen and probably don't exist.
One thing I know,living in a cave is better than living under a rock.

 

[Jamolad]

...One thing I know,living in a cave is better than living under a rock.

With us having done neither, and you having done both, we'll have to take your word for it.

 

[rank and file]

With us having done neither, and you having done both, we'll have to take your word for it.

Good move taking my word for it.

Hoping the 'With us' crew can provide some veracity of the tapes.
No doubt Trump was up to his eyeballs colluding with Russians,but to say Trump owes Putin and a debt will be called in is absurd.

 

[barreness]

Had to wait a reasonable amount of time after bombing a childrens hospital to come back a fight the good fight.?

How many children were killed?

Most likely bad targeting, sent off course by intercepts etc. Would be a little silly to burn a million(?) dollar missile on an out building and take out a couple of techs. The comparison to Israel is startling in this regard.

Shows Kiev doesn't have enough AA to stop all rockets, which I think was the point, push back the patriots from the front

 

[barreness]

So you've admitted that Russia said it

Of course, it was the classic "we'll be home by christmas" propaganda. Then their hilariously bad supply lines were shown to the world by Ukraine.

The war has clearly moved on from feb 2022

 

[barreness]

You making assumptions. And the assumptions are assumptions that support your narrative.

For instance, I could assume Zelensky has intelligence that Russia wants out of the war, and is contemplating giving up territorial demands to achieve this.

Thus, Zelensky could be contemplating possible peace talks, because Russia has changed its tune.

But, assumptions. And, contemplating. So, nothing.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

You're right, it's a deduction from Zelensky's comments. There has been a marked change in rhetoric the last few months you'd agree? What do you put it down to?