Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[CD Xbow]

Forbes are reporting that Ukraine has struck and sunk the Russian submarine Rostov on Don. This was the sub that was hit last year in dock and had a large hole punched through it. Allegedly the Russians had patched her up and was undergoing trials after repairs.



Ukraine claims they have now sunk her. It shows how tough subs are, being able to be repaired after a Storm Shadow strike in relatively short time.

It’s Possible A Ukrainian Missile Blew Up Russia’s ‘Rostov-On-Don’ Submarine—For The Second Time In 11 Months

The strike, if confirmed, would be extremely embarrassing for the battered Russian Black Sea Fleet.

www.forbes.com

 

[Mobbs]

Forbes are reporting that Ukraine has struck and sunk the Russian submarine Rostov on Don. This was the sub that was hit last year in dock and had a large hole punched through it. Allegedly the Russians had patched her up and was undergoing trials after repairs.

View attachment 2068436

Ukraine claims they have now sunk her. It shows how tough subs are, being able to be repaired after a Storm Shadow strike in relatively short time.

It’s Possible A Ukrainian Missile Blew Up Russia’s ‘Rostov-On-Don’ Submarine—For The Second Time In 11 Months

The strike, if confirmed, would be extremely embarrassing for the battered Russian Black Sea Fleet.

www.forbes.com

Yes it was the Rostov on Don that was struck in the recent attack on Sevastopol.


aka Rostov on the Seabed as Suchomimus calls it.

 

[CD Xbow]

Ukraine is cancelling Bulgakov, the writer of The Master and Margarita. He has been deemed a symbol of ‘Russian Imperialist Policy’. He was born in Kyiv to a Russian family and hated everything about Ukrainians - and unfortunately the fool wrote it down.

Russian Writer Bulgakov Deemed Symbol of ‘Russian Imperialist Policy’

The Kyiv-born author of “The Master and Margarita” was dismissive of Ukrainian language and culture and is now a target of a “decolonization” campaign

www.kyivpost.com

Still it will remain one of my favourite Russian books and it did stimulate Mick Jagger to write Sympathy for the devil.

Speaking of which, there is a great 'live' version on Youtube in 4K. Young people note, Mick was pretty good when he was young and shiny; before he became old wrinkly and a bit of a parody of himself.



For bonus points - spot the famous folks in the audience.

 

[CD Xbow]

The Warzone has an article that talks about recent events including the sub and and an s400 Ukraine bagged. In the article it had a photo of the other side of the Rostov, after the first attack. Subs aren't so tough. The damage looks a lot worse on this side, I guess this is the exit wound. I was going to make a tacky comment about the back of JFK's head, but I wont, because he was shot from behind, or so they say. I'm surprised they could get it repaired enough to get out and about in only 10 months.

 

[Mobbs]

Ukraine is cancelling Bulgakov, the writer of The Master and Margarita. He has been deemed a symbol of ‘Russian Imperialist Policy’. He was born in Kyiv to a Russian family and hated everything about Ukrainians - and unfortunately the fool wrote it down.

Russian Writer Bulgakov Deemed Symbol of ‘Russian Imperialist Policy’

The Kyiv-born author of “The Master and Margarita” was dismissive of Ukrainian language and culture and is now a target of a “decolonization” campaign

www.kyivpost.com

Still it will remain one of my favourite Russian books and it did stimulate Mick Jagger to write Sympathy for the devil.

Speaking of which, there is a great 'live' version on Youtube in 4K. Young people note, Mick was pretty good when he was young and shiny; before he became old wrinkly and a bit of a parody of himself.



For bonus points - spot the famous folks in the audience.

While I had never read the Master and Margarita and had no idea of the link with the song, I did have a miniseries adaption of the story recommended to me by a Russian once. I couldn't get more than half an episode in before turning it off. It opened with some religious discussion on a park bench and I simply have no tolerance at all for park benches in this day and age.

 

[CD Xbow]

While I had never read the Master and Margarita and had no idea of the link with the song, I did have a miniseries adaption of the story recommended to me by a Russian once. I couldn't get more than half an episode in before turning it off. It opened with some religious discussion on a park bench and I simply have no tolerance at all for park benches in this day and age.

The book is great. There are two stories, the Devil and his troop come to Moscow and have fun with the locals and the other with Pontius Pilate and Jesus. I enjoyed both parts. I don't know the Bible very well, except for the saucy bits, so I found the Pilate and Jesus part interesting, the Russian part is just dark comedy/satire about the Russian society under Stalin.

ADDED - I really hate finding out an artist whose work I like was a real c*nt. Seems to happen more often nowadays.

 

[Zidane98]

Poorer regions of Russia suffering from infrastructure failures repeatedly.

All because Putin is wasting Russia's wealth on a failed invasion of Ukraine that has been a disaster for Russia in every way.

Only a dictator can continue a war that is destroying Russia from within.

 

[wannabejack]

 

[CD Xbow]

The warzone has a long article about the F16 delivered to Ukraine. It's pretty detailed and probably only for the scholars. They are older craft with mechanically scanned radars, not modern AESA radars. That's probably better than what Ukraine have and probably better than most Russian aircraft in theatre. They come kitted out for air defence with modern missiles (AIM 9x and 120). this is the role everyone expects them to be used for first. Most have modern and effective Danish ECW and EW suite. There was some discussion about sniper pods, these F16 don't appear to have many of them. Apparently they have been found useful with drones, a low speed drone presents a high speed combat jet with a similar target to a moving land vehicle.

F-16 Officially In Ukrainian Service, Self Protection Pods Included

After years of work, F-16s have officially entered service with Ukraine's Air Force, and they are already sporting some interesting features.

www.twz.com

 

[kalex6251]

 

[Chief]

Hate those long Twix posts and threads so much

HEAVY STRIKES INTO RUSSIAN TERRITORY First I have to acknowledge that the Ukrainians themselves have announced that ten F-16 were delivered and are currently operating inside the country.Pretty much a whole squadron, depending on how many you have in that grouping. Some countries it’s as few as 8 some as high as 12. Yesterday official video was released and deliberate fly-overs continued in Odesa and western Ukrainian cities, mostly as morale boosters. The range and level of Ukrainian strikes against key Russian support targets in Luhansk and Donetsk continues whenever they can isolate a target of importance. Yesterday they hit several buildings around Luhansk that were linked to machinery repair for the Russian army, seemingly disguised and de-centralised. Ukrainian intelligence must have picked up a pattern of equipment moving from one site to another and they hit the entire complex of buildings. The resulting fires and explosions demonstrated they had clearly hit something of value, as smoke billowed skyward and fire raged.The pressure on what’s left of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and the supply effort for refuelling transports and warship in the Sea of Azov again reared its head.In Sevastopol the Kilo class submarine that was damaged last year in a Storm Shadow attack, was sunk for good while undergoing repairs. Last night the Azov port refuelling piers, the remaining operational fuel reserves tanks and much of the associated port complex used for transferring equipment along the coast and to Crimea, was hit in a massive series of attacks that have gone from simply disabling it to outright destruction. The oil tanks are ablaze as is the port itself.Having gone from attacking the key parts of oil refineries- the cracking plant that separates the oil derivatives into different fuels, Ukraine has been concentrating on storage sites and tanks. Doing this becomes not only an incredibly difficult operation to put out for Russian fire services - they often can’t and have to leave it to burn out - but it can spread to other tanks in the right wind conditions. Either way such a fire usually means the whole site is unavailable and off line causing ever more problems for the refining industry. That in turn puts pressure on the Russian military and civil sectors as refined oil product like petrol and diesel prices soar at the pumps, and Russia is forced to buy in from neighbours.Amusingly the devastated oil tanks in Azov were blamed by local authorities not on the visible and explosive Ukrainian drones but on ‘a cigarette thrown from a car window that ignited dry grass, setting an intense fire that spread into the oil depot’. The loss of yet another repair site deep inside Luhansk has got to be a blow. Russian military vehicles are already far fewer that they were, their reckless and feckless use leading to such heavy losses. So when damaged units are repaired they contribute hugely to maintaining the war. And repairs matter even more when equipment gets scarcer. It’s unlikely just the buildings either - trained mechanics and stores of spares would have been destroyed too.Each and every attack makes it more and more evident to Russians themselves that the war has come home. Their airspace is far from secure, their economy is under constant attack. Every day is more expense on things Russia has no money or means to easily fix. So what do we know from the Ukrainian footage of the F-16?First they were delivered with drop tanks that can carry an additional 360 litres each. The F-16 can carry as many as three, one under each wing and one under the centre line. That adds as much as 40 minutes of operating time, so overall could as much as double its operating range.The AIM-9X is also present, a faster missile than its -M predecessor capable of pulling more G’s and manoeuvres more quickly and dramatically to deal with notching fighters. Continues

CONTINUES…Also shown is the AIM-120 AMRAAM, an active radar homing missile.What that means is the F-16 radar can pick up an enemy at say 70 miles, fire the missile and the missile will find its way to the target without further communication from the aircraft or need to have the aircraft ‘illuminate’ the target with its own radar. The typical fire and forget approach. They’re said to be almost invincible at up to 50-60km but effective hitting ratios drop dramatically after that to under 40% and decline with range. Ukraine was also supplied with additional anti-radar HARM, small diameter glide bombs and the larger JDAM systems. The F-16 was not equipped to carry and was never fitted with StormShadow or its equals. It’s not impossible they could be equipped to carry one with modifications but it’s a very big missile and I just don’t see it on this aircraft type. Other things that were being noted from the video were the runway that appears to be no more than a gravel strip. It’s entirely likely the landing gear has been beefed up to cope with non-traditional bases. We all know the Russians will be hunting these aircraft down.I suspect they’re waiting to use their missile stockpile - they haven’t used them in weeks - for a strike against these bases. Which brings me in to the field of the Shaheed drones. Russia has been sending these out with tracker kits and dummy warheads to scope out attack paths. They have also been using dummy warheads in some to act as targets while other drones try and get through.Clearly they’re trying there best to find ways around defences and to waste defensive effort.So a mixed bag of news but all of it good for Ukraine.Meanwhile Iran is planning a war ‘to cross all of Israel’s red lines’. Expect it to start any hour. ‘The Analyst’ MilStratOnX Slava Ukraine

!

 

[Zidane98]

Yet more proof that the war is going perfectly for Putin, the master strategist.

 

[Chief]

What's the issue? Damage? Maintenance?

 

[Visions]

Yet another red line crossed that the Russians told us would lead to a nuclear response and WW3. Yet we're all still here.

 

[CD Xbow]

I don't think this has been posted. Russian pilot filmed himself after ejecting from his flanker, which he also caught falling below him, or rather descending to the ground to attack Ukrainian Fascists for the glory of the Fatherland. Given how unconcerned he appears I would guess this is over Russian controlled territory, he apparently also says the attack was a surprise so it's possible it's a mechanical failure.

 

[wannabejack]

Yet more proof that the war is going perfectly for Putin, the master strategist.

From an article 24-05-2024
Freight volumes on the Russian rail network keep falling. Russian Railways (RZD) likely incurred a 50 billion ruble loss due to the decline over the first months of 2024. The trend is unlikely to reverse soon.

There’s also the sabotage of russian railways which disrupts them supplying their frontlines. Some of the sabotage has targeted railway connections with China and North Korea to stop military supply from these two countries.

 

[wannabejack]

Frontline report: Ukrainian fighters decimate elite Russian Special Forces unit - Euromaidan Press

Ukrainian fighters eliminated five high-ranking Russian special forces officers, who conducted a covert reconnaissance operation in Chernihiv Oblast, and halted a potential new offensive front in northern Ukraine.

euromaidanpress.com

These Russian Special Operators are among the most elite and highly trained soldiers in the Russian army. Comprised solely of professional contract soldiers with years of service, they have undergone rigorous special forces training to achieve their elite status.

Five Russian Special Forces operators were killed. All of them were officers. Among them were three majors, one captain, and one senior Lieutenant

 

[barreness]

Yet more proof that the war is going perfectly for Putin, the master strategist.

Proof? seems a strong word for a non sourced twitter post

 

[Mobbs]

Youtube slowed for Russians from August 1 via Roskomnadzor. 128 kilobits / second seems to be the target allowable download rate - jamming devices are installed at ISPs to introduce the slowdown. Workarounds shared by Russians for Russians. [DOXA Journal]

This should be about as effective as the banning of Meta etc, which almost all Russians circumvent via VPNs. DOXA used to advertise free VPN for anyone who contacted them too.

(Fears that if the internet in Russia is slowed 300 more times over it might almost approach only 1000 times the speed of internet in Australia.)

 

[Mobbs]

Half-blinded Russian serviceman threatened with emprisonment in torture basement dedicated to conscientious objectors.

Almost blind soldier threatened with being sent to Zaitsevo basement

Serviceman Ivan Demidkin, about whom ASTRA reported this morning, is again being threatened with being sent to an illegal prison for conscientious objectors - a basement in Zaitsevo, his mother Elena told ASTRA, citing her son's fellow servicemen.

As she managed to find out, Ivan went on a combat mission without a map of the area or a guide.

"We sat in a dugout for 10 days, without food or water. We made our way to the swamp for water, urinated in a bottle so that thermal imagers would not detect our location. The radio died, and we were without communication," says Elena.

According to her, the dugout was soon hit, the shells stored there began to explode, after which Ivan almost completely lost his sight.

"After that, he got to Kremennaya, went to the locals for help, asked to wash himself and wash his clothes. He was shaking all over, the locals poured him a little to calm his nerves, and then he was met by the Akhmat patrol. They took him to the commandant's office in Kremennaya. Now they promise to take him to Zaitsevo in a few days. Since the radio died and there was no communication, the fathers-commanders assigned my son to the 500th (unauthorized abandonment of the unit. - Ed.). They charge him with early departure from a combat mission. How is it possible that a man spent a month through fields, bushes, swamps, without food and water, shell-shocked, half-blind, under fire, getting to his own people, and instead of a hospital, they send him to a basement and a disciplinary battalion?" - says Elena.

ASTRA Telegram's initial touchpoint on the invasion was the investigation of these basement prisons:
Earlier, ASTRA published a video from a basement in Kremennaya, where Russian conscripts were held back in October 2022.

Throughout the full-scale war, ASTRA tells of illegal prisons for “refuseniks,” where soldiers are threatened and subjected to various tortures to go on deadly assaults. We have already found 16 such places. And ASTRA is the only media outlet that was able to obtain and publish videos from the Zaitsevo basement and other similar places.
Nested links (sorry if duplicated, rushing for work):
[Threats of basement emprisonment for refuseniks]
Treatment within these prisons [1] [2]
Video from the Zaitsovo basement [1] [2]

 

[Mobbs]

There are reports of Ukrainian attacks on a town Sudzha which is located just over the border in Russia's Kursk region (kind of near Sumy). Not much data but a lot of channels are sharing the story.
One post from SOTA: [During the fighting in the Kursk region, according to pictures published on various channels, Russian equipment was destroyed]

View attachment IMG_7856.MP4
[Denys Davydov TG]

 

[Mobbs]

Wreckage of a SU-34 at Morozovsk airfield (site of the massive ammunition cookoff a few days ago when Ukraine struck the airfield):
View attachment IMG_5081.MP4
[Skadovsk TG]

 

[Zidane98]

There are reports of Ukrainian attacks on a town Sudzha which is located just over the border in Russia's Kursk region (kind of near Sumy). Not much data but a lot of channels are sharing the story.
One post from SOTA: [During the fighting in the Kursk region, according to pictures published on various channels, Russian equipment was destroyed]

View attachment 2070966
[Denys Davydov TG]

Sounds like the Russian freedom fighters group yet again





It's going that well for Putin that he now can't even keep his own territory secure. Perhaps he should let Ukraine run free & fair referendums in Belgorod / Kursk about rejoining Ukraine after being occupied by Russia since the early 1920s.

 

[Zidane98]

More videos




Looks like Russia will need to withdraw troops from Ukranian territory to defend actual territory.

 

[Zidane98]

Also, a rare edit from the Russian MOD about Ukranian units