Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Werewolf]

How long until Putin requests NATO membership for protecting from Ukraine?

He already asked President Bush 20+ years ago and the answer was no.

Hence why he's salty about Ukraine & Georgia being offered membership.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Frank Grimes]

Guess who Russia is asking assistance from with Syria withdrawal



Big bad NATO member Turkey.

Absolutely embarrassment for vatniks selling the NATO Ukraine falsehood.

There is also a dilemma in of Turkey helps the evacuation of the Russian troops in Syria, that they know those very same troops would be redeployed to fight Ukraine.

 

[wannabejack]

Russian state tv says that the new government in Syria is obligated to honor the treaty that Russia had with the old government. LOL

The Budapest Memorandum says hello.

 

[Jamolad]

the paragraph above exhibits extreme ignorance and you are advised not to proceed any further for your own safety.

"Don't you point out me using "scientific" out of context when I am trying to explain how Lenin took someone else's (Hobson's) incorrect, narrow interpretation of a word to give it a different meaning to the definition that word had had for more than a century, to give it a definition that is only recognised by a small number of cultists because it suits their agenda...or else you'll suffer violence at the hands of socialists!"

Was only a couple or few days ago that you re-defined "Imperialism" as being invading countries not in your immediate sphere, to justify why Russia invading so many neighbouring countries in the last 30 years was not "imperialism".

Oh no, now I am no longer safe.

If your post is going to be 99% off-topic bullshit about Socialism, with the tiniest tenuous link to the war, then post it in the Socialism thread that no one cares about, as it is more on topic there

 

[Zidane98]

He already asked President Bush 20+ years ago and the answer was no.

Hence why he's salty about Ukraine & Georgia being offered membership.

That was only talk. And not a chance Poland would have ratified Russia joining even if the US agreed.

 

[Zidane98]

There is also a dilemma in of Turkey helps the evacuation of the Russian troops in Syria, that they know those very same troops would be redeployed to fight Ukraine.

Turkey should be saying we help you if you withdraw from Ukraine

 

[IlovethePies]

"Don't you point out me using "scientific" out of context when I am trying to explain how Lenin took someone else's (Hobson's) incorrect, narrow interpretation of a word to give it a different meaning to the definition that word had had for more than a century, to give it a definition that is only recognised by a small number of cultists because it suits their agenda...or else you'll suffer violence at the hands of socialists!"

Was only a couple or few days ago that you re-defined "Imperialism" as being invading countries not in your immediate sphere, to justify why Russia invading so many neighbouring countries in the last 30 years was not "imperialism".

Oh no, now I am no longer safe.

If your post is going to be 99% off-topic bullshit about Socialism, with the tiniest tenuous link to the war, then post it in the Socialism thread that no one cares about, as it is more on topic there

THat is why I am not replying to all your BS - simply because it would be off topic, just as your post above is.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

In other Ukraine-related news an Australian-Algerian dual national who went to fight for Ukraine is wanted for questioning after the death of a U.K volunteer

Australian a suspect in 'unlawful killing' of ex-UK soldier in Ukraine

A UK coroner has ruled that Daniel Burke died after being shot multiple times while unarmed in Ukraine, with the inquest told an Australian-Algerian dual national had confessed to his death.

www.abc.net.au

December 14 2024

A former British soldier died in an "unlawful killing" after being "shot whilst unarmed" in Ukraine, a UK coroner has ruled, with an Australian-Algerian dual national named as a suspect.

Daniel Burke, 36, was reported missing in August 2023, after he went to Ukraine to help those wounded in the war with Russia.

Mr Burke's family and a person in Ukraine reported him missing after not hearing from him for a few days.

A body was later found near an abandoned training ground in Zaporizhzhia in Ukraine in September 2023, with DNA testing confirming the remains were that of Mr Burke...

...Ukrainian authorities had previously named Abdelfetah 'Adam' Nourine, also known as 'Jihadi Adam', an Australian-Algerian dual national, as a suspect in Mr Burke's killing.

The coroner's inquest in Manchester heard that Mr Nourine had already confessed to Mr Burke's death and had been temporarily detained by Ukrainian police before being released...

 

[Jamolad]

THat is why I am not replying to all your BS - simply because it would be off topic, just as your post above is.

Ah, ok...the "for your own safety" bit was you just engaging in hyperbole. Understood.

Still, it was such an inoffensive post you were replying to, it just did not warrant the exaggerated threat and emotion...and a staunch socialist being hyper-sensitive to opposing views, and leaping to threats of violence as the immediate response, so out of character too, it's just unheard-of in history.

Bizarro-World

 

[IlovethePies]

In other Ukraine war related news:

The Ukrainian army is suffering mass desertions.
The Financial Times reports that goverment prosecutors in Kiev have 60000 cases to pursue against soldiers who abandoned their positions between January and October 2024, double the number of total desertions during the years 2022 and 2023 combined.

Also according to the Times, Ukrainians are taking advantage of the military training programs overseas to desert.

On 29 November, AP reported that some Ukrainian soldiers were taking sick leave and never returning. Others "clashed with those in authority, and refused to execute orders, sometimes even during an exchange of fire".

Social media videos regularly appear showing military personnel dragging unwilling men into vehicles in the middle of the street.

In July,the WSJ reported that 44000 men have managed to flee Ukraine. This figure does not include those who left legally by paying a bribe to be exempted from military service.

The Washington Post reported on Dec 2: "Certain members of the Biden administration believe, whatever Washington does, the Kiev army will remain overwhelmed without the addition of many more soldiers. "

Hence, the disappointment of the Biden administration that so far, Zelensky has refused to lower the conscription age to 18 - despite the pressure from his US paymasters.

Antony Blinken declared on Dec 1 that it was not fair that "young Ukrainian men aged 18 to 25 are not participating in the struggle against Russia". "Involving these younger men in the combat is, according to us, necessary".

(In other words, the US is demanding more Ukrainian cannon fodder).

On 7 Dec the Times reported that Ukrainian teenagers were preparing to leave Ukraine and never return. On Dec 5, the Times reported the words of a teen in Kharkov, confirming that "many" of his friends prefer from now on to pursue their studies overseas, because "it's safer over there". He continued: "In a foreign university, there is no risk of being conscripted into the army." Planning to enrol in a Polish university, he continued: "Once my studies are completed, I will decide whether I will return to Ukraine or stay overseas. One thing is for sure: overseas, there are no bombs falling and no risk of being mobilised for war against one's will".

According to Ukrainian politician Alexsandra Yustinova, any decision to lower the conscription age would ignite " strong opposition" in Ukraine. "It would be a clear signal for families to arrange for their children to leave the country. If we want to lose our future generation, then yes, that's exactly what we should do"

 

[Zidane98]

In other Ukraine war related news:

The Ukrainian army is suffering mass desertions.
The Financial Times reports that goverment prosecutors in Kiev have 60000 cases to pursue against soldiers who abandoned their positions between January and October 2024, double the number of total desertions during the years 2022 and 2023 combined.

Also according to the Times, Ukrainians are taking advantage of the military training programs overseas to desert.

On 29 November, AP reported that some Ukrainian soldiers were taking sick leave and never returning. Others "clashed with those in authority, and refused to execute orders, sometimes even during an exchange of fire".

Social media videos regularly appear showing military personnel dragging unwilling men into vehicles in the middle of the street.

In July,the WSJ reported that 44000 men have managed to flee Ukraine. This figure does not include those who left legally by paying a bribe to be exempted from military service.

The Washington Post reported on Dec 2: "Certain members of the Biden administration believe, whatever Washington does, the Kiev army will remain overwhelmed without the addition of many more soldiers. "

Hence, the disappointment of the Biden administration that so far, Zelensky has refused to lower the conscription age to 18 - despite the pressure from his US paymasters.

Antony Blinken declared on Dec 1 that it was not fair that "young Ukrainian men aged 18 to 25 are not participating in the struggle against Russia". "Involving these younger men in the combat is, according to us, necessary".

(In other words, the US is demanding more Ukrainian cannon fodder).

On 7 Dec the Times reported that Ukrainian teenagers were preparing to leave Ukraine and never return. On Dec 5, the Times reported the words of a teen in Kharkov, confirming that "many" of his friends prefer from now on to pursue their studies overseas, because "it's safer over there". He continued: "In a foreign university, there is no risk of being conscripted into the army." Planning to enrol in a Polish university, he continued: "Once my studies are completed, I will decide whether I will return to Ukraine or stay overseas. One thing is for sure: overseas, there are no bombs falling and no risk of being mobilised against one's will for war".

According to Ukrainian politician Alexsandra Yustinova, any decision to lower the conscription age would ignite " strong opposition" in Ukraine. "It would be a clear signal for families to arrange for their children to leave the country. If we want to lose our future generation, then yes, that's exactly what we should do"

I also heard Ukraine has lost 1,000,000 troops while Russia has lost just 10,000.

 

[IlovethePies]

Ah, ok...the "for your own safety" bit was you just engaging in hyperbole. Understood.

Still, it was such an inoffensive post you were replying to, it just did not warrant the exaggerated threat and emotion...and a staunch socialist being hyper-sensitive to opposing views, and leaping to threats of violence as the immediate response, so out of character too, it's just unheard-of in history.

Bizarro-World

..."for your own safety"...simply meant that if he continued he would risk exposing even more radically his crass ignorance of the topic he is attempting to discuss.

You have deliberately (perhaps) misconstrued my meaning.

 

[swingdog]

..."for your own safety"...simply meant that if he continued he would risk exposing even more radically his crass ignorance of the topic he is attempting to discuss.

You have deliberately (perhaps) misconstrued my meaning.

Says the one who thought Marx didn't live during imperial times.

 

[Bloods86]

..."for your own safety"...simply meant that if he continued he would risk exposing even more radically his crass ignorance of the topic he is attempting to discuss.

You have deliberately (perhaps) misconstrued my meaning.

For someone who pretends to have the best definitions, that unfortunately just happen to be definitions no-one uses, you'd think maybe you'd choose your words more thoughtfully.

 

[IlovethePies]

Says the one who thought Marx didn't live during imperial times.

He didn't live through imperialist times. There's a difference, that I don't expect you will appreciate.

 

[Aussie in exile]

In other Ukraine war related news:

The Ukrainian army is suffering mass desertions.
The Financial Times reports that goverment prosecutors in Kiev have 60000 cases to pursue against soldiers who abandoned their positions between January and October 2024, double the number of total desertions during the years 2022 and 2023 combined.

Also according to the Times, Ukrainians are taking advantage of the military training programs overseas to desert.

On 29 November, AP reported that some Ukrainian soldiers were taking sick leave and never returning. Others "clashed with those in authority, and refused to execute orders, sometimes even during an exchange of fire".

Social media videos regularly appear showing military personnel dragging unwilling men into vehicles in the middle of the street.

In July,the WSJ reported that 44000 men have managed to flee Ukraine. This figure does not include those who left legally by paying a bribe to be exempted from military service.

The Washington Post reported on Dec 2: "Certain members of the Biden administration believe, whatever Washington does, the Kiev army will remain overwhelmed without the addition of many more soldiers. "

Hence, the disappointment of the Biden administration that so far, Zelensky has refused to lower the conscription age to 18 - despite the pressure from his US paymasters.

Antony Blinken declared on Dec 1 that it was not fair that "young Ukrainian men aged 18 to 25 are not participating in the struggle against Russia". "Involving these younger men in the combat is, according to us, necessary".

(In other words, the US is demanding more Ukrainian cannon fodder).

On 7 Dec the Times reported that Ukrainian teenagers were preparing to leave Ukraine and never return. On Dec 5, the Times reported the words of a teen in Kharkov, confirming that "many" of his friends prefer from now on to pursue their studies overseas, because "it's safer over there". He continued: "In a foreign university, there is no risk of being conscripted into the army." Planning to enrol in a Polish university, he continued: "Once my studies are completed, I will decide whether I will return to Ukraine or stay overseas. One thing is for sure: overseas, there are no bombs falling and no risk of being mobilised for war against one's will".

According to Ukrainian politician Alexsandra Yustinova, any decision to lower the conscription age would ignite " strong opposition" in Ukraine. "It would be a clear signal for families to arrange for their children to leave the country. If we want to lose our future generation, then yes, that's exactly what we should do"

Post links to back up your claim

 

[Zidane98]

Post links to back up your claim

I can do that.

Rt.com thegrayzone rianovosti tass.ru etc etc

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Baldur]

the paragraph above exhibits extreme ignorance and you are advised not to proceed any further for your own safety.

Yea right, what are you going to do to me, shitecomesfrompiehole?

 

[IlovethePies]

Yea right, what are you going to do to me, shitecomesfrompiehole?

Hey baldie,
I am just warning you about exposing your ignorance in public.
It is a social and moral hazard, from which you need protection.

 

[Baldur]

Hey baldie,
I am just warning you about exposing your ignorance in public.
It is a social and moral hazard, from which you need protection.

You are warning me about my ignorance, the irony is supreme.

 

[IlovethePies]

You are warning me about my ignorance, the irony is supreme.

Careful.... i have already warned you....

 

[Baldur]

Australia joins International Coalition for Return of Ukrainian Children

Australia has joined the International Coalition for the Return of Ukrainian Children. â Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

International Coalition

www.bringkidsback.org.ua

Took us long enough

 

[Zidane98]

Igor still hasn't kicked that smoking habit.