Which side is closer to a premiership - Carlton or Essendon?

[Tylerbombers]

Head and shoulders. You’ve got to be kidding. We currently have one of the best defenders in the game. 2 of the best mids in the game and the best forward in the game with potentially another in Curnow. Essendon don’t even come close.

Zero KP talent outside of kids that are 3-4 years away. They have depth in the middle but Merrett/Shiel/parish might pale in comparison to Walsh/Cripps/Cerra.

Do you think Essendon dont have comparable players?

Weitering - Ridley
Walsh - Parish
Cripps - Merrett
Mckay - Stringer
Curnow - Tippa

 

[Ambrosia]

Do you think Essendon dont have comparable players?

Weitering - Ridley
Walsh - Parish
Cripps - Merrett
Mckay - Stringer
Curnow - Tippa

Seems like odd player comparison.

I think it’s quite clear that the Blues KPPs are ahead atm.

McKay - Wright
Curnow - Jones
McGovern - Francis
TDK - Draper
Weitering - Stewart
Marchbank - Laverde
Kemp - Ridley

Obviously footy isn’t played on paper but McKay is head and shoulders the best tall forward on each list.

Carlton backman are hard to rate though. Weitering and Jones were the best intercept duo in the comp last year but only North conceded more points so it’s not like their defensive structure was any good. Not saying Weitering or Jones deserve blame but who knows what their stats would be like in a side something resembling an AFL level defensive structure.

 

[Tylerbombers]

Seems like odd player comparison.

I think it’s quite clear that the Blues KPPs are ahead atm.

McKay - Wright
Curnow - Jones
McGovern - Francis
TDK - Draper
Weitering - Stewart
Marchbank - Laverde
Kemp - Ridley

Obviously footy isn’t played on paper but McKay is head and shoulders the best tall forward on each list.

Carlton backman are hard to rate though. Weitering and Jones were the best intercept duo in the comp last year but only North conceded more points so it’s not like their defensive structure was any good. Not saying Weitering or Jones deserve blame but who knows what their stats would be like in a side something resembling an AFL level defensive structure.

Why is this suddenly about key position players? I never said that Essendon has better key position players then Carlton. I said that Essendon have comparable talents to the players that Red_man2008 mentioned.

 

[Ambrosia]

Why is this suddenly about key position players? I never said that Essendon has better key position players then Carlton. I said that Essendon have comparable talents to the players that Red_man2008 mentioned.

I thought Redman was more focused on KPP.

A reread has you correct sorry. If we ranked solely on 2021 form I’d have top end talent as

1. McKay
Gap
2. Walsh
3. Merrett
4. Parish
5. Stringer
6. Weitering
7. Ridley
Gap
=8. Hind
=8. Saad

Honourable mention Tippa first half of the season.

No other top end talent based on performance in 2021.

Guys I’d say who are reasonable chances to step up and be top level players in 2022: Cripps, Curnow, Williams, Cerra, McGrath and Shiel.

I’m high on Draper taking another big leap as well.

 

[Thrawn]

Obviously footy isn’t played on paper

I would like to see the AA team and secondary AA team battle it out on a field covered with A4 sheets.

 

[Red_man2008]

Do you think Essendon dont have comparable players?

Weitering - Ridley
Walsh - Parish
Cripps - Merrett
Mckay - Stringer
Curnow - Tippa

How many those would be ranked higher. I count 5-0 Carlton. You seriously can’t compare Tippa to Curnow nor can you compare Ridley/Weitering and McKay/stringer.

 

[Tylerbombers]

How many those would be ranked higher. I count 5-0 Carlton. You seriously can’t compare Tippa to Curnow nor can you compare Ridley/Weitering and McKay/stringer.

Weitering = Ridley
Walsh = Parish, coaches and players seem to love Walsh but statistically Parish was more impressive, so Ill call it even.
Cripps < Merrett
Mckay = Stringer, nothing against Mckay, I just rate Stringers year very highly, different sort of players but I think what Stringer does in the middle makes up the difference in goals and contested marks.
Curnow = Tippa, Curnow has barely played so I dont think he really belongs in this discussion but last time he was playing consistently he averaged 1.7 goals a game which was Tippas average last year.

I could make a good argument more in Essendons favour on most of these but my points not that Essendons players are better, its that its absurd to say they dont even come close when clearly it is very close.

 

[CarnTheScray]

You don't watch much footy at all.

You say that to every user that criticises Carlton and have done so for 2 years running.

You are such a sook.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Weitering = Ridley
Walsh = Parish, coaches and players seem to love Walsh but statistically Parish was more impressive, so Ill call it even.
Cripps < Merrett
Mckay = Stringer, nothing against Mckay, I just rate Stringers year very highly, different sort of players but I think what Stringer does in the middle makes up the difference in goals and contested marks.
Curnow = Tippa, Curnow has barely played so I dont think he really belongs in this discussion but last time he was playing consistently he averaged 1.7 goals a game which was Tippas average last year.

I could make a good argument more in Essendons favour on most of these but my points not that Essendons players are better, its that its absurd to say they dont even come close when clearly it is very close.

These arent comparable in the slightest, the players value and impact dont equal out between different roles. You can have the best back pocket in the game and he still wont have anywhere near the same impact or value as a top KPF.




If you are comparing pairs in terms of comparable key players you'd have;
Cripps + Hewett
Merrett + Sheil
DONS

Walsh + Cerra
vs
Parish + Caldwell
CARLTON


Weitering + Young
vs
Ridley + Laverde
CARLTON

Williams + Saad
vs
Hind + Redman
CARLTON



Mckay + Curnow
vs
Francis + Wright
CARLTON

Stringer + Tippa
vs
Martin + Fisher
DONS




The rest of the pairings are a bit hard to judge as most are either filled by young players with very little consistency such as Dow, Perkins, Cox, Stocker etc so I've chosen to leave them out until a time that they can produce consistent footy which you can point to when comparing players.

Essendon have slightly better role players and definitely a better coached structure
Blues win out when it comes to overall key players.

If Cripps gets back to 2018-19 form Hewett+Cripps vs Merrett+Sheil sways Carlton too as he was the best of all of them by a fair margin.

 

[YoboD]

These arent comparable in the slightest, the players value and impact dont equal out between different roles. You can have the best back pocket in the game and he still wont have anywhere near the same impact or value as a top KPF.




If you are comparing pairs in terms of comparable key players you'd have;
Cripps + Hewett
Merrett + Sheil
DONS

Walsh + Cerra
vs
Parish + Caldwell
CARLTON


Weitering + Young
vs
Ridley + Laverde
CARLTON

Williams + Saad
vs
Hind + Redman
CARLTON



Mckay + Curnow
vs
Francis + Wright
CARLTON

Stringer + Tippa
vs
Martin + Fisher
DONS




The rest of the pairings are a bit hard to judge as most are either filled by young players with very little consistency such as Dow, Perkins, Cox, Stocker etc so I've chosen to leave them out until a time that they can produce consistent footy which you can point to when comparing players.

Essendon have slightly better role players and definitely a better coached structure
Blues win out when it comes to overall key players.

If Cripps gets back to 2018-19 form Hewett+Cripps vs Merrett+Sheil sways Carlton too as he was the best of all of them by a fair margin.

Amazing how you guys were unable to make finals this year when your list is apparently so much better and in nearly every capacity. Either Teague and his assistants must be one of the worst coaching groups of all time, or perhaps your glasses might have a slight navy blue tinge to them that’s colouring your perception.

Mind you, picking random pairings from each team and comparing them is one of the absolute weirdest ways I have ever seen of comparing a list. Bonus point for giving up completely near the end and just going ‘eh the rest are on a similar level’.

 

[Yoda_]

When comparing the lists, it all comes down to interpretations. One could argue that Stringer had a bigger impact on games than McKay despite Harry winning the Coleman. Parish having a better year than Walsh. Ditto Merrett over Cripps.


If Essendon and Carlton supporters weren't so pathetic with the bay filled responses we'd have more neutral supporters impasse there thoughts instead another Essendon v Carlton thread becomes an instant pissing contest.

I understand we love our club but can we not be dicks for like a week because it gets very boring seeing the same posters, post the same replies.

 

[Robertio]

You say that to every user that criticises Carlton and have done so for 2 years running.

You are such a sook.

Trouble makers should be booted.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Do you think Essendon dont have comparable players?

Weitering - Ridley
Walsh - Parish
Cripps - Merrett
Mckay - Stringer
Curnow - Tippa

In all of those comparisons the Carlton players are better.

 

[TheUnicorn]

Weitering and Ridley too close to call for me
Parish and Walsh too close to call for me
Merrett Easily over Cripps on current form
God knows we need a Mckay type player on our team but i'd personally take Stringer over Mckay he was (IMO) the most damaging player in the second half of the season. I could see this argued either way both amazing in their own right.
And lastly i'd take Tippa over Curnow too, Not that it matters I think we've probably seen the last of Tippa sadly.

Obviously we all probably biased whether we can admit it or not.

Idk why we comparing these select handful of players though, half of them are completely different players.

 

[Ambrosia]

These arent comparable in the slightest, the players value and impact dont equal out between different roles. You can have the best back pocket in the game and he still wont have anywhere near the same impact or value as a top KPF.




If you are comparing pairs in terms of comparable key players you'd have;
Cripps + Hewett
Merrett + Sheil
DONS

Walsh + Cerra
vs
Parish + Caldwell
CARLTON


Weitering + Young
vs
Ridley + Laverde
CARLTON

Williams + Saad
vs
Hind + Redman
CARLTON



Mckay + Curnow
vs
Francis + Wright
CARLTON

Stringer + Tippa
vs
Martin + Fisher
DONS




The rest of the pairings are a bit hard to judge as most are either filled by young players with very little consistency such as Dow, Perkins, Cox, Stocker etc so I've chosen to leave them out until a time that they can produce consistent footy which you can point to when comparing players.

Essendon have slightly better role players and definitely a better coached structure
Blues win out when it comes to overall key players.

If Cripps gets back to 2018-19 form Hewett+Cripps vs Merrett+Sheil sways Carlton too as he was the best of all of them by a fair margin.

Seems an odd way to break up players and compare them.

I’d say midfield groups:

Carlton: Walsh, Cripps, Cerra, Hewett, Curnow, Kennedy

Vs

Essendon: Merrett, Parish, Shiel, McGrath, Langford, Caldwell

Makes more sense.

Weitering and Ridley too close to call for me
Parish and Walsh too close to call for me
Merrett Easily over Cripps on current form
God knows we need a Mckay type player on our team but i'd personally take Stringer over Mckay he was (IMO) the most damaging player in the second half of the season. I could see this argued either way both amazing in their own right.
And lastly i'd take Tippa over Curnow too, Not that it matters I think we've probably seen the last of Tippa sadly.

Obviously we all probably biased whether we can admit it or not.

Idk why we comparing these select handful of players though, half of them are completely different players.

I think Walsh, Merrett and Parish are all eye of the beholder at this point. Walsh being significantly younger points to a higher ceiling so suspect most neutrals pick him.

Agree Stringer with you on how good Stringer’s second half of the year was. It’s being slept on just how dominant he was especially out of the centre. That being said he wasn’t better then McKay who did it for the full year and is just a walking mismatch for almost every team in the comp.

Curnow and Tippa probably don’t really deserve to be in the conversation as far as real difference makers go at this point in time. Fingers crossed both get back to their best footy. Walla when up and running is close to the best field kick in the comp and just makes things happen forward of centre.

 

[Tylerbombers]

Weitering and Ridley too close to call for me
Parish and Walsh too close to call for me
Merrett Easily over Cripps on current form
God knows we need a Mckay type player on our team but i'd personally take Stringer over Mckay he was (IMO) the most damaging player in the second half of the season. I could see this argued either way both amazing in their own right.
And lastly i'd take Tippa over Curnow too, Not that it matters I think we've probably seen the last of Tippa sadly.

Obviously we all probably biased whether we can admit it or not.

Idk why we comparing these select handful of players though, half of them are completely different players.

It was a response to this:

We currently have one of the best defenders in the game. 2 of the best mids in the game and the best forward in the game with potentially another in Curnow. Essendon don’t even come close.

Its ridiculous to say that Essendon dont even come close to Carlton because Carlton has those players when Essendon have players that fit the same description.

 

[Tylerbombers]

That being said he wasn’t better then McKay who did it for the full year and is just a walking mismatch for almost every team in the comp.

How much is a clearance worth compared to a goal? Mckay was great but I would have a lot of mids ahead of him and Stringer was dominant in the centre aswell as kicking 41 goals.

 

[Ambrosia]

How much is a clearance worth compared to a goal? Mckay was great but I would have a lot of mids ahead of him and Stringer was dominant in the centre aswell as kicking 41 goals.

It’s not a bad point you make. Stringer is one of the best offensive weapons in the comp but he still struggles with team defence and not getting lost when the ball isn’t in his area. McKay being a tall forward doesn’t come with these issues.

Also I’m super high on McKay. His big frame and athleticism mean opposition defences are shit scared of him.

That being said if Stringer keep up his form from next year or somehow builds on it then he’ll be one of the best players in the comp.

 

[Tylerbombers]

he still struggles with team defence

Is it fair to say Stringer struggles with team defence when his role is to go forward after the centre bounce? He also rates above average among midfielders for tackles and pressure acts. Mckay rates average and below average for the same stats among key forwards.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

How much is a clearance worth compared to a goal? Mckay was great but I would have a lot of mids ahead of him and Stringer was dominant in the centre aswell as kicking 41 goals.

How much are contested marks and bringing the ball to ground worth? If the ball gets intercepted upon entry it doesnt really matter what smalls you have on the ground or goal kicking mids. May and Lever showed how difficult it was to get through quality tall intercepting defenders and without someone to crash the packs and spread them its very hard to score at all. All you have to look at is games where Mckay wasnt available to see what a monumental difference it made to the team having Matt Owies leading up out of the goal square instead of a 6"7 bloke who requires 2 defenders to contain him

Is Peter Wright going to be the answer this year? I really like young Jones but he may still be a way off being that main guy. As much as Hooker was on his last legs he presented very well all year and halved a lot of contests by simply barrelling through blokes to bring the ball to the feet of the crumbers. Think he will be seriously missed this year and Im not sure who the dons will use to replace him in that role

 

[Ambrosia]

Is it fair to say Stringer struggles with team defence when his role is to go forward after the centre bounce? He also rates above average among midfielders for tackles and pressure acts. Mckay rates average and below average for the same stats among key forwards.

They’re ball in his area stats though. Stringers issue is he gets lost in transition and has mental lapses in picking up his man/standing his spot in the zone.

Tippa for example at his best is one of the best pressure act/tackle small forwards in the comp but he has similar struggles to Stringer which is why both spend so time as deep forwards because their lapses don’t hurt as much.

McKay is nothing special in this area but given he is most dangerous close to goal it’s not like Carlton are losing anything offensively by anchoring him deep all the time.

 

[Ambrosia]

How much are contested marks and bringing the ball to ground worth? If the ball gets intercepted upon entry it doesnt really matter what smalls you have on the ground or goal kicking mids. May and Lever showed how difficult it was to get through quality tall intercepting defenders and without someone to crash the packs and spread them its very hard to score at all. All you have to look at is games where Mckay wasnt available to see what a monumental difference it made to the team having Matt Owies leading up out of the goal square instead of a 6"7 bloke who requires 2 defenders to contain him

Is Peter Wright going to be the answer this year? I really like young Jones but he may still be a way off being that main guy. As much as Hooker was on his last legs he presented very well all year and halved a lot of contests by simply barrelling through blokes to bring the ball to the feet of the crumbers. Think he will be seriously missed this year and Im not sure who the dons will use to replace him in that role

To be fair Hooker was dropped in the back half of the year so it’s not like we haven’t already proven the forward line can function without him. Wright does need to be more consistent with his physicality though I agree.

 

[Tylerbombers]

How much are contested marks and bringing the ball to ground worth? If the ball gets intercepted upon entry it doesnt really matter what smalls you have on the ground or goal kicking mids. May and Lever showed how difficult it was to get through quality tall intercepting defenders and without someone to crash the packs and spread them its very hard to score at all. All you have to look at is games where Mckay wasnt available to see what a monumental difference it made to the team having Matt Owies leading up out of the goal square instead of a 6"7 bloke who requires 2 defenders to contain him

Is Peter Wright going to be the answer this year? I really like young Jones but he may still be a way off being that main guy. As much as Hooker was on his last legs he presented very well all year and halved a lot of contests by simply barrelling through blokes to bring the ball to the feet of the crumbers. Think he will be seriously missed this year and Im not sure who the dons will use to replace him in that role

Essendon averaged over 100 points in the last 4 rounds without Jones or Hooker and without Tippa for 2 of those as well so im not too worried, the forward line will be our weakest area of the ground but a good system can make up for that. I still rate Stringers midfield work over Mckays contested marks and 17 more goals.

 

[Tylerbombers]

Stringers issue is he gets lost in transition and has mental lapses in picking up his man/standing his spot in the zone.

Never noticed it.

 

[Hippster]

Carlton. But need Carroll, De Koning, Kemp to become players. Think Hewett and Cerra are great gets. And think McGovern and Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

likely to show that they can be great big guys.
Bombers don’t impress me much..