List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[dudeintheswamp]

I reckon old mate Rorsy (the Lobbster) needs a bit of a change. If you find what you're currently doing isn't really working, you can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. For far too long he's been rockin' the Drago, how's that gone for ya mate? Keep doing the same thing...



Yes methinks it's time for the Lobbmeister to embrace his true self and then, and only then, will we see the signature moves we long for in our forward line.

 

[gringo2011]

Your level of pessimism is unmatched. Especially when it completely contradicts the crap you say you want.

For years you claim you want mids and top end of the draft.

It’s there for you this year and you buckle. Go completely weak at the knees.

If Howard and Butts are the same. Then why is one paid significantly more?

if we can get one who does the same job… for less, wouldn’t that be better?

Battle is a good player agreed. Battle is not a game changing player - who won’t make hawthorn a contender nor us unfortunately.

Take the emotion out of it and a deep breath.

We have one high pick already coming. Cashing out your mid career players makes holes down the road. The old guys won't be there when the young guys develop and we won't have an older core of guys like Battle. We are in a perpetual cycle of shooting our feet and wondering what went wrong.

We struggle to put together a decent side. All of sudden we are finding cheaper better ones. Culture is worth something too. If we get another Paddy Dow instead of game changer we are two steps backwards and further away. Patience is wearing thin and going younger will send us bottom 4 for a few more years. At some point the club has to pay out or no one will be left to watch them.

 

[phantom13]

We have one high pick already coming. Cashing out your mid career players makes holes down the road. The old guys won't be there when the young guys develop and we won't have an older core of guys like Battle. We are in a perpetual cycle of shooting our feet and wondering what went wrong.

We struggle to put together a decent side. All of sudden we are finding cheaper better ones. Culture is worth something too. If we get another Paddy Dow instead of game changer we are two steps backwards and further away. Patience is wearing thin and going younger will send us bottom 4 for a few more years. At some point the club has to pay out or no one will be left to watch them.

I don’t think anyone is happy about losing battle and frankly if given a choice I’d rather retain him and take 1 pick to the draft but if he’s gone, he’s gone, smart business is maximing the return for him.

I actually and genuinely think if he is gone and we get band 1 the mid kids come on QUICK now and having Jagga and whoever in a midfield rotation with guys like Steele, Dow, Clark maybe Crouch will let them be very good very quick.

 

[Miha]

Ask yourself.. Membrey or Lobb?

 

[phantom13]

Ask yourself.. Membrey or Lobb?

I’ll take Keeler thanks.

I’d rather get a Melbourne membership than get Lobb

 

[Miha]

I’ll take Keeler thanks.

I’d rather get a Melbourne membership than get Lobb

Sadly for you Keeler is a backman now

 

[TheJackal]

I’ll take Keeler thanks.

I’d rather get a Melbourne membership than get Lobb

I hear House has a good sale on cheese boards

 

[gubby88]

I don’t think anyone is happy about losing battle and frankly if given a choice I’d rather retain him and take 1 pick to the draft but if he’s gone, he’s gone, smart business is maximing the return for him.

I actually and genuinely think if he is gone and we get band 1 the mid kids come on QUICK now and having Jagga and whoever in a midfield rotation with guys like Steele, Dow, Clark maybe Crouch will let them be very good very quick.

i think you're completely correct. With all the junior footy programs these days and the professional way its gone about, they do seem to come on alot quicker

 

[stavro#4]

We have one high pick already coming. Cashing out your mid career players makes holes down the road. The old guys won't be there when the young guys develop and we won't have an older core of guys like Battle. We are in a perpetual cycle of shooting our feet and wondering what went wrong.

We struggle to put together a decent side. All of sudden we are finding cheaper better ones. Culture is worth something too. If we get another Paddy Dow instead of game changer we are two steps backwards and further away. Patience is wearing thin and going younger will send us bottom 4 for a few more years. At some point the club has to pay out or no one will be left to watch them.

And the only control we have with regards to keeping Battle is to offer over what you believe he is initially worth - which is just poor business.

The fact is that you don’t win anything without high end mids and they are most realistically found at the top of a draft.

Rolling the dice at the draft has to eventually come back around to working for us ala Rooey Ball Kosi BJ Dal and X

 

[stavro#4]

Let’s chat about hope and the future and kumbiyah

Someone share this.

Did the work myself.

https://archive.md/nVHbj

Give me Jagga

4. Jagga Smith (Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro)
A lively and creative ball-winner, Smith is on the smaller side as a lightly-built 181cm midfielder. However, he more than makes up for it in resilience, footy smarts and pure skills. Smith has drawn comparisons to Port Adelaide’s Zak Butters this year, who is a player he watches closely. He was one of the best players for the AFL Academy against Footscray’s VFL side in April in his first game against men. Smith also made headlines after racking up 50 disposals for the Oakleigh Chargers in a recent Coates Talent League match, becoming just the third player in the competition’s history to reach that mark in a match.

 

[phantom13]

Sadly for you Keeler is a backman now

So was Naughton, Bing. Hell likely be a swingman anyway.

Our forwards will wind up being King, Camma/Hayes/Keeler (second ruck) and Sharman i think. Looks pretty good to me.

 

[stavro#4]

Ask yourself.. Membrey or Lobb?

I’ll take Keeler thanks.

I’d rather get a Melbourne membership than get Lobb

Irrespective of if Battle stays or goes.

It’s going to be the same group of players to give us the short term improvement.

They will or have asked about the likes of Lobb/Macrae.

They want a key back who can actually handle the bigger more powerful forwards - hence Howard being on the outer for 12 months. Which is why the link to Butts. A similar limited player. However can compete 1 on 1 with apes. (If you doubt this, look at Lyons M.O with Key backs)

There isn’t a long term way to improve this offseason without the draft.

Infact our dilemma will be the same this season as it was last season.

We could be as good as 6th, As bad as 17th with this group. It doesn’t really matter because its ceiling can’t surpass the current top 5 sides without mids good enough to match them.

We should all be hoping we have 11 more close losses this year. Just add another bus load of kids to the list and set ourselves up for a period of sustained attack at a flag - as it stands we don’t have enough top end talent and our best players aren’t having as good of a season as last year to give those demanding useless wins the oxytocin shot they demand.

 

[phantom13]

Irrespective of if Battle stays or goes.

It’s going to be the same group of players to give us the short term improvement.

They will or have asked about the likes of Lobb/Macrae.

They want a key back who can actually handle the bigger more powerful forwards - hence Howard being on the outer for 12 months. Which is why the link to Butts. A similar limited player. However can compete 1 on 1 with apes. (If you doubt this, look at Lyons M.O with Key backs)

There isn’t a long term way to improve this offseason without the draft.

Infact our dilemma will be the same this season as it was last season.

We could be as good as 6th, As bad as 17th with this group. It doesn’t really matter because its ceiling can’t surpass the current top 5 sides without mids good enough to match them.

We should all be hoping we have 11 more close losses this year. Just add another bus load of kids to the list and set ourselves up for a period of sustained attack at a flag - as it stands we don’t have enough top end talent and our best players aren’t having as good of a season as last year to give those demanding useless wins the oxytocin shot they demand.

Its a personal thing for me with Lobb i just cant stand guys like him i also think Camma and Keeler seem better long term second tall forward/ruck options (putting aside my personal dislike of him).

Im ambivalent on Howard, i think hes better than you (this season) and a core of Howard, Wilkie and Arie in that order of defense i think is pretty solid. If we can upgrade him for less money im not opposed to it, i just dont think we can, the elite key defenders are rare and were not getting one of them, Howard is in the next group when he doesnt have his brain farts.

 

[Saint Watto]

I loved watching Plugger.

But I’d still rather have the 3 Premierships.

I'm not greedy....well.....I am !!!!

I'll take just one shiny cup before the good Lord above calls for me...

 

[gringo2011]

I don’t think anyone is happy about losing battle and frankly if given a choice I’d rather retain him and take 1 pick to the draft but if he’s gone, he’s gone, smart business is maximing the return for him.

I actually and genuinely think if he is gone and we get band 1 the mid kids come on QUICK now and having Jagga and whoever in a midfield rotation with guys like Steele, Dow, Clark maybe Crouch will let them be very good very quick.

Getting band one is fantasy. The AFL have given a couple of disguised priority picks for clubs that were wallowing. He'll get us a pick at the end of round one at best and there are already 2 priority picks from North last year accounted for. It's a pick around 22 or 23 for Battle at best by the time academy and FS are taken out. More likely mid to late 20s.

Battle goes and it will be a shame regardless. I'm happy that we won't over pay but getting all frisky about the opportunity will leave a few disappointed. Remember we were matching Gresham last year if we didn't get a pick straight after our first. In all likelihood we've thrown away that pick as Collard probably won't hang around.

Happy for the club to put up a good offer and stand our ground but don't get this desperate fantasy land stuff where we end up with pick 2 and 3.

Even if we did get 2 high picks 2 new players along with the players we are already developing is going to make us very young and inexperienced. Doubt we are competitive for a minimum of 2 years if we play bulk kids.

 

[stavro#4]

Its a personal thing for me with Lobb i just cant stand guys like him i also think Camma and Keeler seem better long term second tall forward/ruck options (putting aside my personal dislike of him).

Im ambivalent on Howard, i think hes better than you (this season) and a core of Howard, Wilkie and Arie in that order of defense i think is pretty solid. If we can upgrade him for less money im not opposed to it, i just dont think we can, the elite key defenders are rare and were not getting one of them, Howard is in the next group when he doesnt have his brain farts.

And that’s all completely fair.

But this balancing act to ensure they dont bottom out will have to include short term hits with the likes of Lobb.

Unfortunately, whilst I really like Caminiti. He just isn’t ready to be the second foil.

The thing with Howard is that he is wildly inconsistent. He is the anti RTB key back. He has at times lost his spot to Cordy

 

[phantom13]

Getting band one is fantasy. The AFL have given a couple of disguised priority picks for clubs that were wallowing. He'll get us a pick at the end of round one at best and there are already 2 priority picks from North last year accounted for. It's a pick around 22 or 23 for Battle at best by the time academy and FS are taken out. More likely mid to late 20s.

Battle goes and it will be a shame regardless. I'm happy that we won't over pay but getting all frisky about the opportunity will leave a few disappointed. Remember we were matching Gresham last year if we didn't get a pick straight after our first. In all likelihood we've thrown away that pick as Collard probably won't hang around.

Happy for the club to put up a good offer and stand our ground but don't get this desperate fantasy land stuff where we end up with pick 2 and 3.

Even if we did get 2 high picks 2 new players along with the players we are already developing is going to make us very young and inexperienced. Doubt we are competitive for a minimum of 2 years if we play bulk kids.

Im not frisky but i think this whole "AFL have said" stuff is a bit overstated.

How can they justify not giving band 1 if the deal is longer and more cash than McKay (which from all accounts it is) and yes i realise the AFL does what they want.

My recollection is we were not matching Gresham for band 1 and the weird and speculation was that we would take Shiels salary so Greshs figure would bump up to band 1. It made sense mechanically but was always pretty wild.

The bolded is the reality. Whether it triggers band 1 or not we can only work with what weve got.

 

[gringo2011]

Sadly for you Keeler is a backman now

We seem to be all over the shop. If we are going for bottoming out, Lobb is the wrong move.

 

[phantom13]

And that’s all completely fair.

But this balancing act to ensure they dont bottom out will have to include short term hits with the likes of Lobb.

Unfortunately, whilst I really like Caminiti. He just isn’t ready to be the second foil.

The thing with Howard is that he is wildly inconsistent. He is the anti RTB key back. He has at times lost his spot to Cordy

Another year or two of development with a functioning midfield and a gameplan that works and some continuity in King and i think hes a VERY handy second foil. Even if hes competing with Hayes (who has already proven to be more than capable).

 

[gringo2011]

And that’s all completely fair.

But this balancing act to ensure they dont bottom out will have to include short term hits with the likes of Lobb.

Unfortunately, whilst I really like Caminiti. He just isn’t ready to be the second foil.

The thing with Howard is that he is wildly inconsistent. He is the anti RTB key back. He has at times lost his spot to Cordy

If we turn over the list as much as you are suggesting we are bottoming hard. Lobb would make zero sense except to take up salary cap that we don't want to over pay to kids.

 

[stavro#4]

Getting band one is fantasy. The AFL have given a couple of disguised priority picks for clubs that were wallowing. He'll get us a pick at the end of round one at best and there are already 2 priority picks from North last year accounted for. It's a pick around 22 or 23 for Battle at best by the time academy and FS are taken out. More likely mid to late 20s.

Battle goes and it will be a shame regardless. I'm happy that we won't over pay but getting all frisky about the opportunity will leave a few disappointed. Remember we were matching Gresham last year if we didn't get a pick straight after our first. In all likelihood we've thrown away that pick as Collard probably won't hang around.

It can’t be fantasy when it’s being spoken about now by Twomey. (Last 3 minutes of gettable directly asked about band 1 watch and he says no to Zurhuur and Battle is a watch) and Cleary is building momentum on his stories.

Re Gresham. There was a lot more to that situation with Shiel and the AFL binned it because it was effectively rorting the FA system without their involvement.

 

[gringo2011]

Im not frisky but i think this whole "AFL have said" stuff is a bit overstated.

How can they justify not giving band 1 if the deal is longer and more cash than McKay (which from all accounts it is) and yes i realise the AFL does what they want.

My recollection is we were not matching Gresham for band 1 and the weird and speculation was that we would take Shiels salary so Greshs figure would bump up to band 1. It made sense mechanically but was always pretty wild.

The bolded is the reality. Whether it triggers band 1 or not we can only work with what weve got.

Because they have a secret formula. You are expecting a level accountability that has never been there. I would be shocked if we get a pick before the end of the first round unless we both out for a few seasons and they are desperate for us to be competitive.

 

[stavro#4]

If we turn over the list as much as you are suggesting we are bottoming hard. Lobb would make zero sense except to take up salary cap that we don't want to over pay to kids.

We are losing 1 best 18 player - Battle.

Howard lost his spot to Cordy and is at best a coin flip between them - if he does go.

Membrey/Ross Paton Jones Etc do nothing for us now or in the future.

 

[stavro#4]

Another year or two of development with a functioning midfield and a gameplan that works and some continuity in King and i think hes a VERY handy second foil. Even if hes competing with Hayes (who has already proven to be more than capable).

Still means we have a second ruck issue - which Lobb would solve.

Hayes has interest from 5-6 clubs. That will be an interesting watch.

 

[gringo2011]

It can’t be fantasy when it’s being spoken about now by Twomey. (Last 3 minutes of gettable directly asked about band 1 watch and he says no to Zurhuur and Battle is a watch) and Cleary is building momentum on his stories.

Re Gresham. There was a lot more to that situation with Shiel and the AFL binned it because it was effectively rorting the FA system without their involvement.

This is the life of the Saints, Dreaming about special advantages that never come and blowing the compensation on nothing. We are still at the same point we were in 2011. **** I'm tired of this shit. Just get the club working and no more excuses or fantasy shit to distract people from the being no good at running a sporting club. We shouldn't still be hoping that gambling our way out is a way forward.

At some point the club needs a good clean out. If we don't play finals next year we have to move on from the board and move Lyon out with them. Keep bringing in quality football people. It's a shame Jeff Walsh and a younger coach didn't eventuate. Don't think Lyon was the right move. He's buying time and asking for excuses.