List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• AFL retirements and delistings

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Trade period
In: 12, F1, F2, F3, 73, Baker, Owies, Graham*
Out: 3, 63, F4, Barrass, Darling

*Free agent

Done deals

• Tom Barrass traded to Hawthorn
  • In: F1, F2, F3 (HAW)
  • Out: Barrass, F4

• Liam Baker and Matt Owies join West Coast in Pick 3 trade
  • In: Baker, Owies, 12, 73
  • Out: 3, 63, 68

• Jack Darling traded to North Melbourne for Pick 67

• Jack Graham joins West Coast as UFA

• Jake Waterman re-signs with West Coast until at least 2029

• Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones
  31

  Jamaine Jones

  Age

  26

  Ht

  180cm

  Wt

  80kg

  Pos.

  D/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  9.0

  2star

  K

  4.8

  2star

  HB

  4.2

  3star

  M

  2.1

  2star

  T

  3.8

  5star

  MG

  159.6

  3star

  D

  10.5

  3star

  K

  6.5

  3star

  HB

  4.0

  3star

  M

  2.5

  3star

  T

  4.0

  5star

  MG

  196.5

  3star

  D

  9.0

  3star

  K

  4.2

  2star

  HB

  4.8

  4star

  M

  2.4

  3star

  T

  4.2

  5star

  MG

  166.0

  3star

  and Jordyn Baker delisted

• Archer Reid (2027), Loch Rawlinson (2025), and Coen Livingstone (2025) sign extensions

 

[Hook461123]

Culley should be developed to play the backup Yeo role of inside hard ball gets mid. He also adds some versatility into the forward line if we lose some height through injury.

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I like Culley and especially his attitude however after watching him this year, I noticed he is very flat footed around the contest. Not just slow speed but he is never on the move. So even when he reads the play and wins the ball hes too flat footed to get away.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Hey WCE_phil, are Clarke's deficiencies as a negotiator (and any potential others) clear to the Eagles hierarchy, and if so, are they willing and going to do something about it?

I couldn't believe Clarke's interview. He said because Barrass was contracted his position through the whole saga was that it was up to Hawthorn to come to him with a deal.

Now, i am no expert on negotiations. I have been part of some negotiations in the business world and done negotiating courses paid for by previous employers. And the first thing they will teach you on such a course is if you have the leverage in a negotiation then you control and drive the process and your priorities and objectives get addressed first. And you are the price maker, not the price taker. The first price sets the price range negotiation parameters for the deal and you are the person who sets it.

He is saying he did the opposite. He is saying that because he had all the leverage (i.e. Barrass was contracted) he ceded all control of he process to Hawthorn, allowed them to get their objectives prioritised and be the price maker and he just trusted that they would come back with a price he would be be happy with. Which obviously they didn't. They got Barrass committed emotionally to going and then low balled us.

He also failed to take into account who he was putting his trust in. The dominant figure on the other side (Mitchell) is a hyper competitive, hyper aggressive, risk taking boundary pusher who also has a strong streak of a***hole in his personality. I loved him as a player, he is maybe the best coach in the league, but lets be honest about his personality. Thats who he is. If you were ever going to be dumb enough to cede control and put your trust in another party in negotiation a person like Mitchell is the last person you would be doing it with.

What an idiot. The man knows literally nothing about negotiating and he does it for a living.

 

[WCE_phil]

Hey WCE_phil, are Clarke's deficiencies as a negotiator (and any potential others) clear to the Eagles hierarchy, and if so, are they willing and going to do something about it?

Hey WCE_phil - what is the inside word on Warner for next year?

Apologies I just can't comment on these in public or to people privately who I haven't seen around here or know their posting history for a very, very long time.

I won't be anywhere other than retired in 6 weeks time. I had a rather cushy and high paying offer within the industry (not at AFL level) but turned it down. I'm done. I have 4 days off before a bit of time discussing with clubs about potential pick swaps and then any potential live pick trading during the draft. 90% of my work is finished.

I doubt I spend more than 8 weeks in the country next year.

 

[briztoon]

Why so sure it won’t be the strategy briztoon ?

Richmond aren’t trading pick 6 for the Hawks future picks.

Probably wouldn’t even trade it for your future first.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Me getting in early at the thought of Stephen Wells and Geelong dealing with Matthew Clarke over Harley nominating them as the club he'd like to play for in 2027....

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Richmond aren’t trading pick 6 for the Hawks future picks.

Probably wouldn’t even trade it for your future first.

I think you are a person that is wrong

 

[EagleEgo]

Jeez he’s got some dash doesn’t he. Lacks composure and ball winning but which I just doing think suits us rn

I heard from one "expert" comment about three top available (2024 draft) midfielders who have genuine speed and line breaking ability. FOS and Bo Allan were the two. Cannot remember the third one.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

It’s not uncommon for clubs to leave spots open after the draft to look at train on players via the SSP or to add an extra player in the rookie draft

Clubs don’t have to fill their list on draft night

For sure but no one is skipping a top 30 pick for a SSP or trainee.

 

[diknik]

Apologies I just can't comment on these in public or to people privately who I haven't seen around here or know their posting history for a very, very long time.

I won't be anywhere other than retired in 6 weeks time. I had a rather cushy and high paying offer within the industry (not at AFL level) but turned it down. I'm done. I have 4 days off before a bit of time discussing with clubs about potential pick swaps and then any potential live pick trading during the draft. 90% of my work is finished.

I understand and respect that mate, I've been on here for a while but mainly enjoy reading the forums rather than posting.

All the best in retirement and look after yourself!

 

[Elite Pete]

Richmond aren’t trading pick 6 for the Hawks future picks.

Probably wouldn’t even trade it for your future first.

Yeah 6 will be used for the draft by Richmond or used to trade up to 2.

11 is our best chance imo for Hawks F1 and Eagles F1. Not sure if anyone else can beat that if it goes to auction.

You’d just hope it was all part of the negotiations over the weekend after the Hawks went rogue. Eagles were reportedly locked in negotiations with the Tigers on other avenues how to get the Baker deal done. Soon as we traded Tigers pick 14 they traded it on in the Bolton deal.

Pyke has said they want another pick ideally inside 10 but if not 10-20 range.

Trade period would be
Pick 3 for 11 + 12 + Owies (Plus shift slide of F2) (Tobie and Lindsay imo)
TB for Baker and F3

 

[Nuffington Post]

Me getting in early at the thought of Stephen Wells and Geelong dealing with Matthew Clarke over Harley nominating them as the club he'd like to play for in 2027....

View attachment 2146155

“We made a commitment to Harley to get him to Geelong, and the Cats only had one late first to get it done”


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[MaxHunt]

Apologies I just can't comment on these in public or to people privately who I haven't seen around here or know their posting history for a very, very long time.

I won't be anywhere other than retired in 6 weeks time. I had a rather cushy and high paying offer within the industry (not at AFL level) but turned it down. I'm done. I have 4 days off before a bit of time discussing with clubs about potential pick swaps and then any potential live pick trading during the draft. 90% of my work is finished.

I doubt I spend more than 8 weeks in the country next year.

Hey mate. You said you saw some red flags with a number of the top picks in this year's draft with them wanting to move interstate. What kind of numbers are we talking in the projected top 15?

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

The big picture is we sold pick 3 for less than what we could've got for it on draft night, which will now force us to consider selling off our F1 to get the same picks we should already have, diluting the power of our trade hand for warner next year.

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The big picture! Really!

What most WCE fans are in denial about is that the Baker deal had been done before trade week. That was the biggest mistake.

Clarke had agreed pick 14 with Richmond and gone public on it - FFS a pick we did not own! The delay in Hawks negotiations and the screw you trading out of pick 14 to Blues was what caused us having to sell off pick 3. So learning number 1 Matty - don't promise something not in your control or you lose power at the negotiating table.

Pyke and Clarke (and to that extent Phil) had all indicated that we were looking to split. Hell, Cal discussed this several times on Gettable and indicated Norf were in a similar boat. Cal also said that picks 2 and 3 would not gain as much a premium in 2024 compared to prior years due to the depth of this years draft, and the evenness in the 10 to 25 range. Lesson number 2 Bigfooty posters - listen and absorb what is said not what you want to be said. Tigers did well to delay the Freo/Bolton and Suns/Rioli deal so that they were not the club paying up for pick 3. Lesson number 3 Matty - timing is critical in negotiations.

Lesson number 4 - there is a tendency to fall in love with players at a particular pick. Hunter Clarke in 2017. Erasmus in 2021. Phillipou in 2022. Harley in 2023 (and rightfully so). Travaglia in 2024.

As an interstate club, we need to factor way more things into our draft picks. We need to understand the go home factor, the inability to find a fluid market for players to move west which all mean there is more list management going into our draft picks that Melbourne based clubs. Example - neither Sheezel or Wardlaw were likely to be settled out west.

Blues are supposedly at 3 wanting Lalor or FOS or Draper (not certain last one but who really knows) and are unsure of the Tigers no 1 target. So they are confident they get one of these at 3. They would be silly to trade up just for just FOS. From the Tigers board, there is nothing leaking from the club as to who Tigers want at 1. I have an idea of who their pairing they want to be but what I I am hearing is they are expected to go hard at Norf for 2. Norf are midfield heavy and would be better in the talls hitting zone, and Tigers have heaps of those picks. What would get that done? Could it be 10 plus 11 (which is not much different to 12 and 14)? Could it be 10 plus 23 plus 26 for 3 (think about the melts from our board if we did that).

So Tigers getting 2 could walk away with their preferred midfield pairing at 1 and 2, then get the positional needs they want at 6, 11, 18 and 20

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

Pyke has been honest during the process. He told us he would use all means available to improve.
I think we have done OK and you are not seeing the bigger picture.

Let's have a look at the bigger picture.

These are the top 65 players give or take (I found some SEN article). No doubt people will point out some guys should be in, some out, but it's not going to move the needle on the percentages.

This is the big picture: WHEN YOU'RE REBUILDING WIH TOP 5 PICKS, DON'T PISS THEM UP THE WALL. The stats don't lie.

 

[BigBirdz]

Should have just hired some car shark from Gosnells to negotiate our trades.

 

[Keys]

The big picture! Really!

What most WCE fans are in denial about is that the Baker deal had been done before trade week. That was the biggest mistake.

Clarke had agreed pick 14 with Richmond and gone public on it - FFS a pick we did not own! The delay in Hawks negotiations and the screw you trading out of pick 14 to Blues was what caused us having to sell off pick 3. So learning number 1 Matty - don't promise something not in your control or you lose power at the negotiating table.

Pyke and Clarke (and to that extent Phil) had all indicated that we were looking to split. Hell, Cal discussed this several times on Gettable and indicated Norf were in a similar boat. Cal also said that picks 2 and 3 would not gain as much a premium in 2024 compared to prior years due to the depth of this years draft, and the evenness in the 10 to 25 range. Lesson number 2 Bigfooty posters - listen and absorb what is said not what you want to be said. Tigers did well to delay the Freo/Bolton and Suns/Rioli deal so that they were not the club paying up for pick 3. Lesson number 3 Matty - timing is critical in negotiations.

Lesson number 4 - there is a tendency to fall in love with players at a particular pick. Hunter Clarke in 2017. Erasmus in 2021. Phillipou in 2022. Harley in 2023 (and rightfully so). Travaglia in 2024.

As an interstate club, we need to factor way more things into our draft picks. We need to understand the go home factor, the inability to find a fluid market for players to move west which all mean there is more list management going into our draft picks that Melbourne based clubs. Example - neither Sheezel or Wardlaw were likely to be settled out west.

Blues are supposedly at 3 wanting Lalor or FOS or Draper (not certain last one but who really knows) and are unsure of the Tigers no 1 target. So they are confident they get one of these at 3. They would be silly to trade up just for just FOS. From the Tigers board, there is nothing leaking from the club as to who Tigers want at 1. I have an idea of who their pairing they want to be but what I I am hearing is they are expected to go hard at Norf for 2. Norf are midfield heavy and would be better in the talls hitting zone, and Tigers have heaps of those picks. What would get that done? Could it be 10 plus 11 (which is not much different to 12 and 14)? Could it be 10 plus 23 plus 26 for 3 (think about the melts from our board if we did that).

So Tigers getting 2 could walk away with their preferred midfield pairing at 1 and 2, then get the positional needs they want at 6, 11, 18 and 20

For all his faults, one thing O’Brien was particularly adept at was keeping his mouth shut and not giving the slightest hint of his intentions

Worsfold was usually pretty good at giving little away as well - hopefully he can sit down with Clarke (and Pyke) to go through what they can learn from this trade period, particularly the negotiations

I note that this morning on SEN when asked about Warner, Clarke replied along the lines of we don’t want to put all our eggs in one basket and there’s more than one player coming out of contract. Maybe he’s already learned a little

 

[new breed]

Kayle Gerryen shooting up the board in the draft stakes ..every club spoken to him , not a need for WC and very unlikely to end up at WC but has a lot to offer .

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

Should have just hired some car shark from Gosnells to negotiate our trades.

Could have landed Baker for #26 and a 2011 Mercedes with only 23,000km on it. Single owner. Leather seats. No time wasters.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Been waiting for the percentages

 

[BigBirdz]

Could have landed Baker for #26 and a 2011 Mercedes with only 23,000km on it.

230000 kms but only country miles

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

230000 kms but only country miles

We didn't tamper with the odometer at all.

 

[EagleEgo]

Kayle Gerryen shooting up the board in the draft stakes ..every club spoken to him , not a need for WC and very unlikely to end up at WC but has a lot to offer .

Are Gerryen and Livingstone similar type of player?

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

Been waiting for the percentages

Of the Baker trade being a success? F-all%.

 

[eaglespremiers]

We have a new coach and he might see something in Rotham he can work with so I'm not going to get outraged by the rest of our list changes. By my count if we want to take 3 ND picks and a rookie pick we need to cut two more from the senior list. If we trade back in to this draft for an extra pick we'll need to cut three.

Happy to trade back in early third round and draft James Barrat.
An immediate and significant improvement on Josh Rotham in basically every way.

 

[new breed]

Are Gerryen and Livingstone similar type of player?

Gerryen probably more AFL ready with his size and strength , that's all I know only seen glimpses of Gerryen.