List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

[geelong_crazy26]

The trouble with what you are posting is it is way out of step with what the informed majority is saying.

The 2 blokes on Gettable for eg have been saying all year there are up to 6-7 players who could justifiably go pick 1 in most drafts. I have no idea as I have hardly watched the prospects, but those who are watching seem to be tipping this draft as being something like the best elements of the 2017(30+ depth) & 2018(strong top dozen) drafts rolled into one draft. And recruiters & List Managers I have heard interviewed seem to be confirming this is also their view. You could be right but you are out of step with a lot of people whose business it is to know.

6-7 players who could go no1 any season?? Nobody is saying that. They are saying there is no standout no1 prospect this season as it’s very even at the top.

 

[Partridge]

Where do you rank Geelong's 2020 version relative to the other teams you have put on the park since the turn of the century?

The supporters of the teams that regularly contend - Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood - are best placed to assess the strength of the competition at any given point in time.

We can appreciate how strong our own team is during a given year/era, and then we see how they perform relative to the competition.

Nowhere near as good as the 2007-2009 teams. Not near the 2011 team either. The reality is between 2012 and 2021 (inclusive), Geelong's teams were all fairly similar. Good enough to beat most sides, good enough to destroy crap ones, but frequently lost - and lost horrendously - to high quality opponents under finals pressure. The 2020 team made it through to the Grand final, so must be better just by that fact.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

6-7 players who could go no1 any season?? Nobody is saying that. They are saying there is no standout no1 prospect this season as it’s very even at the top.

I have not heard anyone whose job it is to know say there is not a worthy number 1 pick, which is what you are inferring.

I have heard some of them saying there is no Harley Reid or Horne-Francis, but most drafts don't have one of those. Every draft is different, but even in the very murky but deep 2017 draft, the 2 best(ultimately) midfielders went at picks 2 & 4 with Paddy Dow the only flop in the top 5.

What I have seen and heard of the top few rated mids in this draft seems very promising, especially from the perspective of what Richmond needs, explosive mids who are damaging by foot. That is all Richmond will be caring about, whether they can get the players to perform well in the roles they need most. Same for all the clubs with high picks. And there is absolutely no reason that should be a less likely outcome in this draft than it is in most drafts.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I have not heard anyone whose job it is to know say there is not a worthy number 1 pick, which is what you are inferring.

I have heard some of them saying there is no Harley Reid or Horne-Francis, but most drafts don't have one of those. Every draft is different, but even in the very murky but deep 2017 draft, the 2 best(ultimately) midfielders went at picks 2 & 4 with Paddy Dow the only flop in the top 5.

What I have seen and heard of the top few rated mids in this draft seems very promising, especially from the perspective of what Richmond needs, explosive mids who are damaging by foot. That is all Richmond will be caring about, whether they can get the players to perform well in the roles they need most. Same for all the clubs with high picks. And there is absolutely no reason that should be a less likely outcome in this draft than it is in most drafts.

There is one player who is above the rest and it’s Ashcroft, the rest even out quite quickly for the majority of the first round.

I will put it this way, what was a draft with an elite top end ( considered at the time) was the 2018 crop. This years is not considered that at all.

In 2018 you had Walsh rankine king brothers lukoscious rozzee and Bailey smith….

Now that was an elite 6-7, not this years.

 

[Do the Dew]

Why bother even talking about the 2018, 2019 and 2020 drafts.

Your side won premierships in 2019 and 2020.

Even then, the 2020 draft was literally a lottery. Local leagues in victoria was cancelled with the corona virus.

It's a strange thread. A bunch of people criticising Richmond for our draft picks over the last 7 years. Tough to get access to quality kids when you're at the top of the ladder. This is exactly how the league's equalization policy is supposed to work.

 

[Do the Dew]

You mean of course we were fortunate enough to have a team good enough to record the greatest combined Grand Final percentage of any team in history. Ie, good enough to make the other 17 AFL teams look like the weakest bunch in history.

Such a stupid argument they make. Pre 2017-2020, the competition was at its strongest. Then somehow all the teams became crap for 4 years and Richmond got lucky, and then amazingly in 2021 it was back to being really strong again.

 

[blaisee]

Such a stupid argument they make. Pre 2017-2020, the competition was at its strongest. Then somehow all the teams became crap for 4 years and Richmond got lucky, and then amazingly in 2021 it was back to being really strong again.

Geelong fans are nothing if not predictable , still waiting for them "to do us slowly"

 

[Footy Smarts]

It's a strange thread. A bunch of people criticising Richmond for our draft picks over the last 7 years. Tough to get access to quality kids when you're at the top of the ladder. This is exactly how the league's equalization policy is supposed to work.

But we were told endlessly by certain Richmond fans that this wasn't going to happen and their kids were good. Some are still arguing that after winning the spoon.

Don't tell me they were lying to us?

 

[Do the Dew]

But we were told endlessly by certain Richmond fans that this wasn't going to happen and their kids were good. Some are still arguing that after winning the spoon.

Don't tell me they were lying to us?

There's obviously extenuating circumstances over the last couple of years. Coach abandoning us and then a new one with new gameplan taking over, retirement of senior premiership players, and a 2-year running unprecedented injury run.

I think some of our kids are good and most are just ok and might have a career, but that's to be expected when we haven't had any top picks, and those kids don't have senior bodies around them.

Also, if you're judging a few supporters as representatives of the entire 100k plus paying supporter base, that's pretty foolish. You go back a few posts and there's a certain Pies fan who is a self-proclaimed "expert" on all things Collingwood. Should I therefore believe everything that he spews when it comes to their club...?

 

[PhatBoy]

Geelong fans are nothing if not predictable , still waiting for them "to do us slowly"

We’re still waiting for your tabulated results and accompanying thesis about how many AA jackets Tom Stewart earned this season. Was it 7? Or 8?

 

[Grrr]

There's obviously extenuating circumstances over the last couple of years. Coach abandoning us and then a new one with new gameplan taking over, retirement of senior premiership players, and a 2-year running unprecedented injury run.

I think some of our kids are good and most are just ok and might have a career, but that's to be expected when we haven't had any top picks, and those kids don't have senior bodies around them.

Also, if you're judging a few supporters as representatives of the entire 100k plus paying supporter base, that's pretty foolish. You go back a few posts and there's a certain Pies fan who is a self-proclaimed "expert" on all things Collingwood. Should I therefore believe everything that he spews when it comes to their club...?

And some Geelong posters, well one, who are experts on all things Richmond, especially those players they have never seen.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

There is one player who is above the rest and it’s Ashcroft, the rest even out quite quickly for the majority of the first round.

I will put it this way, what was a draft with an elite top end ( considered at the time) was the 2018 crop. This years is not considered that at all.

In 2018 you had Walsh rankine king brothers lukoscious rozzee and Bailey smith….

Now that was an elite 6-7, not this years.

Ok, nobody knew. I've just called the Richmond FC to let them know. They are going to fold, announcing it later today. They didn't realise Ashcroft was that good. It is all just too hard. There is nobody else as good as Bailey Smith in the draft. Richmond has lost its reason to live. Cats can have all the flags we took off them, they deserve them when you think of 1870's flags that were robbed from them. Club is also looking at giving Cats our 8 x top 30 draft picks as well. Sorry Cats, but we have heard these picks won't really assist you, they might help you sell a little bit of hope to your members. But it will boost those kids' development no end to learn how to lose Preliminary Finals. They will definitely experience the "highs" of football playing alongside the likes of Stengle and Smith. They will come to understand the true meaning of ecstasy.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Ok, nobody knew. I've just called the Richmond FC to let them know. They are going to fold, announcing it later today. They didn't realise Ashcroft was that good. It is all just too hard. There is nobody else as good as Bailey Smith in the draft. Richmond has lost its reason to live. Cats can have all the flags we took off them, they deserve them when you think of 1870's flags that were robbed from them. Club is also looking at giving Cats our 8 x top 30 draft picks as well. Sorry Cats, but we have heard these picks won't really assist you, they might help you sell a little bit of hope to your members. But it will boost those kids' development no end to learn how to lose Preliminary Finals. They will definitely experience the "highs" of football playing alongside the likes of Stengle and Smith. They will come to understand the true meaning of ecstasy.

I would call it dramatic but you post stuff like this often.

All I said was you aren’t going to draft the best player which is unanimously ashcroft, and that the draft is a very even one without elite standouts at the top end. It’s a deep draft but not an elite one, which works well with your 8 top 30 picks anyway.

 

[PhatBoy]

Ok, nobody knew. I've just called the Richmond FC to let them know. They are going to fold, announcing it later today. They didn't realise Ashcroft was that good. It is all just too hard. There is nobody else as good as Bailey Smith in the draft. Richmond has lost its reason to live. Cats can have all the flags we took off them, they deserve them when you think of 1870's flags that were robbed from them. Club is also looking at giving Cats our 8 x top 30 draft picks as well. Sorry Cats, but we have heard these picks won't really assist you, they might help you sell a little bit of hope to your members. But it will boost those kids' development no end to learn how to lose Preliminary Finals. They will definitely experience the "highs" of football playing alongside the likes of Stengle and Smith. They will come to understand the true meaning of ecstasy.

Will Ben Cousins be there

 

[Dr Tigris]

I would call it dramatic but you post stuff like this often.

All I said was you aren’t going to draft the best player which is unanimously ashcroft, and that the draft is a very even one without elite standouts at the top end. It’s a deep draft but not an elite one, which works well with your 8 top 30 picks anyway.

"unanimously ashcroft" - the best player in this draft? - I must be looking at the non-draft experts, that don't count.

Really?

 

[BF Tiger]

I would call it dramatic but you post stuff like this often.

All I said was you aren’t going to draft the best player which is unanimously ashcroft, and that the draft is a very even one without elite standouts at the top end. It’s a deep draft but not an elite one, which works well with your 8 top 30 picks anyway.

The best player is unanimously Ashcroft... FMD.

Ashcroft ranked #3 (mid-October) https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...agga-smith-levi-ashcroft-sid-draper-sam-lalor

Ashcroft ranked #2 (late September) https://central.rookieme.com/afl/power-rankings/afl-draft-power-rankings-september-2024/

Ashcroft ranked #2 (late October) https://www.zerohanger.com/2024-afl-mock-draft-picks-1-27-first-edition-156203/2/

For a start... you're full of shite. Clearly just a Richmond troll. You've done f-all research because the above took me about two minutes on Google to find.

If you then read any of these draft rankings what will strike you is how often it is mentioned how even it is at the top and how a number of different players could all be a worthy pick 1. And yes, some of those even have Ashcroft as the best player in this group.

Given all that, and how you rank Ashcroft as the most elite, but others who'll I'll bet spend a bit more time looking at draft prospects (why? because it's their job... duh) rank Ashcroft as similarly talented to a number of others in the draft the natural deduction is that others are similarly elite to Ashcroft. Thanks for playing peanut.

 

[Wojcinski]

lol at the sensitive ****ing sausages in here talking about Ashcroft not being number 1 because they know they can't pick him, no one cares, it's not a troll to say it sucks that you don't have access to him

 

[Wojcinski]

The best player is unanimously Ashcroft... FMD.

Ashcroft ranked #3 (mid-October) https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...agga-smith-levi-ashcroft-sid-draper-sam-lalor

Ashcroft ranked #2 (late September) https://central.rookieme.com/afl/power-rankings/afl-draft-power-rankings-september-2024/

Ashcroft ranked #2 (late October) https://www.zerohanger.com/2024-afl-mock-draft-picks-1-27-first-edition-156203/2/

For a start... you're full of shite. Clearly just a Richmond troll. You've done f-all research because the above took me about two minutes on Google to find.

If you then read any of these draft rankings what will strike you is how often it is mentioned how even it is at the top and how a number of different players could all be a worthy pick 1. And yes, some of those even have Ashcroft as the best player in this group.

Given all that, and how you rank Ashcroft as the most elite, but others who'll I'll bet spend a bit more time looking at draft prospects (why? because it's their job... duh) rank Ashcroft as similarly talented to a number of others in the draft the natural deduction is that others are similarly elite to Ashcroft. Thanks for playing peanut.

Did you even click that last link?

"Perhaps the best player this year's talent-rich pool of prospects has to offer"

Or is clicking links also trolling Richmond?

 

[Grrr]

Did you even click that last link?

"Perhaps the best player this year's talent-rich pool of prospects has to offer"

Or is clicking links also trolling Richmond?

The word perhaps hardly makes in unanimous.

Earlier in the year Smillie was touted, Smith for much of the year and Ashcroft finished off well.
Perhaps he has his nose in front, depending what you are after, perhaps he is the best but none of us will really know for a while yet.

Personally we have enough medium paced mids (well slow would be closer to the mark), therefore Ashcroft might not suit as much as Draper, FOS or Lalor, who all have a point of difference to our mids. It is a bit horses for courses when they are all so even.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The best player is unanimously Ashcroft... FMD.

Ashcroft ranked #3 (mid-October) https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...agga-smith-levi-ashcroft-sid-draper-sam-lalor

Ashcroft ranked #2 (late September) https://central.rookieme.com/afl/power-rankings/afl-draft-power-rankings-september-2024/

Ashcroft ranked #2 (late October) https://www.zerohanger.com/2024-afl-mock-draft-picks-1-27-first-edition-156203/2/

For a start... you're full of shite. Clearly just a Richmond troll. You've done f-all research because the above took me about two minutes on Google to find.

If you then read any of these draft rankings what will strike you is how often it is mentioned how even it is at the top and how a number of different players could all be a worthy pick 1. And yes, some of those even have Ashcroft as the best player in this group.

Given all that, and how you rank Ashcroft as the most elite, but others who'll I'll bet spend a bit more time looking at draft prospects (why? because it's their job... duh) rank Ashcroft as similarly talented to a number of others in the draft the natural deduction is that others are similarly elite to Ashcroft. Thanks for playing peanut.

From cal twomey having him unanimously at no1.

Every time the next challenge comes, Ashcroft lifts to it. He made his VFL debut for the Lions and gathered 35 disposals and 11 clearances and since then has produced some terrific performances for the Dragons, including 40 touches and two goals in their qualifying final win over the Calder Cannons. He backed it up with 33 disposals and two goals on Sunday in the preliminary final and is shooting to this week become a three-time premiership winner in consecutive years for the Dragons. Ashcroft is ready to be playing at AFL level and the ball-winner has been preparing himself for that next step for some time.

 

[Dr Tigris]

From cal twomey having him unanimously at no1.

Every time the next challenge comes, Ashcroft lifts to it. He made his VFL debut for the Lions and gathered 35 disposals and 11 clearances and since then has produced some terrific performances for the Dragons, including 40 touches and two goals in their qualifying final win over the Calder Cannons. He backed it up with 33 disposals and two goals on Sunday in the preliminary final and is shooting to this week become a three-time premiership winner in consecutive years for the Dragons. Ashcroft is ready to be playing at AFL level and the ball-winner has been preparing himself for that next step for some time.View attachment 2149525View attachment 2149525

"cal twomey having him unanimously at no1."

unanimously + without dissent; agreed to by all

I think you don't understand what the words you use mean.




Still good player.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

"cal twomey having him unanimously at no1."

unanimously + without dissent; agreed to by all

I think you don't understand what the words you use mean.




Still good player.

Cal twomey is the draft guru And has him no1 like most others. A lot are tipping him further down because they don’t believe Richmond will bid on him. He is unanimously considered the best player of the draft.

His VFL form was light years ahead of any of the players Richmond trialed in their VFL also

 

[G String]

I think I can help resolve this argument. geelong_crazy26 - you keep using the word 'unanimously' but I dont think you know what it means.

The general consensus is that the draft is very even at the top - not much separates the top 7-8 - many have Ashcroft at number 1 but it is certainly not 'unanimous'

You're welcome

 

[Grrr]

Cal twomey is the draft guru And has him no1 like most others. A lot are tipping him further down because they don’t believe Richmond will bid on him. He is unanimously considered the best player of the draft.

His VFL form was light years ahead of any of the players Richmond trialed in their VFL also

He might well be, as I said he is finishing off well, but you stated that we had our noses out of joint because we couldn't get him. That is not so. There is a thread going on for months on our board in regard to the no.1 choice and Ashcroft is not discussed much at all because he is out of bounds, and only late in the season has probably gone to no.1. Hardly makes him Horne Francis or Reid.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think I can help resolve this argument. geelong_crazy26 - you keep using the word 'unanimously' but I dont think you know what it means.

The general consensus is that the draft is very even at the top - not much separates the top 7-8 - many have Ashcroft at number 1 but it is certainly not 'unanimous'

You're welcome

I will rephrase, he is unanimously considered the best player in the draft, much like daicos due to being F/S, he is tipped to go a bit lower on some draft boards.

You’re welcome