List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion II - Draft Day

[Anythings_sipposible]

There's a very good reason people are questioning the wisdom of the Paton selection. The likelihood pick 45 @ 186cm is going to push past literally a dozen guys, already on the list, who can or do play his position is a very low probability event.
Hope he proves us all wrong but the law of averages is against him doing so.

In fairness, most of those guys were also selected around pick 45 (White and Rice 40 and 41 ish, Webster 42, Savage 75, Roberton DFA but originally 49, Newnes 37, Geary rookie. I guess you could count Clarke and Coffield in that conversation, but probably shouldn't.)

 

[Gangnam Saint]

In fairness, most of those guys were also selected around pick 45 (White and Rice 40 and 41 ish, Webster 42, Savage 75, Roberton DFA but originally 49, Newnes 37, Geary rookie. I guess you could count Clarke and Coffield in that conversation, but probably shouldn't.)

And most are young with experience.
The kid is a mile behind but let's see, stranger things have happened.

 

[sasaint]

I for one haven’t been this bullish about a group since 2004. But I suppose some will still look for the negative, variety is the spice of life after all

We had some amazing star quality players in 2004. I don’t see that in today’s team. Hope your right though.

 

[pebblesofsand]

There's a very good reason people are questioning the wisdom of the Paton selection. The likelihood pick 45 @ 186cm is going to push past literally a dozen guys, already on the list, who can or do play his position is a very low probability event.
Hope he proves us all wrong but the law of averages is against him doing so.

Depends where you see him playing in a year or two's time.

Give him a year at Sandy and then I'd expect Paton would be up against Bailey Rice and ??? as next in line for Gearys spot if he was unavailable.

 

[sasaint]

- people go on about we don't have any elite players , well what are Steven , Carlisle , Roberton , Billings , Ross and you might as well add Steele , Sinclair as well because they are only going to get better and you never know about Acres , McCartin , Freeman.

Bookmark this for the 2018 AA list and then let’s see how many elite players on our list. Not convinced we we will have any one with Roo gone.

 

[pebblesofsand]

A question - is it likely Trout and Richo see Hunter Clark starting life as an outside mid/wing?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-24/2017-afl-draft-who-did-the-saints-pick-up

 

[Saintanne]

So acres still struggles for midfield time but these guys will walk straight in?
Can't wait to see them rot in our revolving back flank door for the next 4 years

This, this and this! Except I really hope they don’t rot! We go on and on about Bont type, X factor type etc, but if the club doesn’t encourage or facilitate X factor and give the young players a bit of a go, we’ll never have a Bont cause he’d still be languishing in the bank flank. Acres is X factor, just let him show it![/QUOTE]

 

[gringo2011]

Bookmark this for the 2018 AA list and then let’s see how many elite players on our list. Not convinced we we will have any one with Roo gone.

I reckon Jack Steven is technically our best player and the only inside the top 50 of AFL player rankings from memory. He was obviously injured so he could probably get back to that next year. All Australian midfield positions are nearly impossible to break into though as Danger, Selwood etc will almost automatically get put in. Roberton is probably our most likely AA as he's very good in a position with much less competition. To me the likeliest AAs (taking potential into account) on our list are:

Longer- he's getting better and we are actually in a period with very few ruck superstars.

Billings- If he'd kicked straight for goalie would have been very close last year. Looks elite now and could get one of the half forward or pocket spots.

Gresham- Would ned a big jump but his best is eye catching.

Carlisle- He is a defender who doesn't defend very well but he just cruises around mopping up incoming ball. If he could get a bit more tight he could be able to knock out a all defender.

Sinclair- Champion data's complicated formula have him as elite on a wing. The AA selectors might take notice of that.

Seb Ross- He's still young and his performances were to a high standard this year. Another 20% and he's probably as good as any mid in the comp. Perhaps not eye catching enough to get a gig though.


Guys that would need a huge jump but have potential to be very god also include Acres, Dustan, Steele,

 

[TassieSaint]

Did we take the best available midfielders at 7 and 8? I don't follow the draft. That's what our list needs imo.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

The ball moves faster than the player. Give me blokes that can use it, not just run fast (enjoy Arden St, Mr. Hartung).

I’m personally pretty pleased with our draft haul. Significantly pleased with Coffield and Clark seems to have some real campaigner about him which I like. We weren’t far off nabbing one of the top five, but that was out of our hands anyway. Would love to get to a training session with the new boys going around soon!

We did get one of the top 5.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Did we take the best available midfielders at 7 and 8? I don't follow the draft. That's what our list needs imo.

Yes they did.

 

[Loading]

We did get one of the top 5.

And Hunter Clark

 

[Saint believer]

Agree with this. This time last year everyone was talking about the dogs ability to play 1 on 1 all over the ground and how important it is to have 22 players who can each beat their man.

Now we are talking about how talls aren't needed anymore because Richmond won a flag with a small forward and backline. Plus a resting ruck who was not a ruck and massively undersized.

As you say Richmond isn't the future blue print as much as the dogs were. They were just two of the best sides on the day and had some luck go their way as well.

It doesn't mean that's what we should be doing. I've heard some list managers talk heavily about them and how it's the way forward. I think its a massive mistake. It's a lagging indicator. Would much rather be ahead of the next massive trend and get a period of sustained success.

I think you still need the structure of the talls and as you say good decision making and disposal has never been more important, as you said.

Tl;Dr ignore how Richmond and the dogs won a flag. Do it our way and stick to the plan.

I agree, the last two years have been won by hard working teams that played best in finals. There was an absence of a top premiership dominant side like the bombers 2000, Bris 2001-2003 or cats and hawks in more recent times. I watched the saints bris game from 2004 and the talent and standard of the game was sooo much higher than this years finals.

I suspect this is partly due to diluting the talent pool across more teams/so many recent early picks going to the new clubs instead of adding strength to established clubs.

The time will come again when a premiership standard team(s) will arrive and I have confidence we could be one of them. Our depth is so much stronger than we have had in the last three decades so I think the possibility is there.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joffaboy]

Not into winning and losing of drafts but Daniel Cherney has an interesting piece in the Age.
Sort of looks at Freo then at other clubs making the point that it wont be known for years.

So if we had of lost Gresh and got Brayshaw and Cerra would we be saying we had won?

We lost nobody and got a top 5 in Clark and a top 10 in Coffield.

So what would we prefer? Personally would hate to lose a Gresh even for pick 2

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

And Hunter Clark

*And Nick Coffield.

 

[StCicatriz]

Not into winning and losing of drafts but Daniel Cherney has an interesting piece in the Age.
Sort of looks at Freo then at other clubs making the point that it wont be known for years.

So if we had of lost Gresh and got Brayshaw and Cerra would we be saying we had won?

We lost nobody and got a top 5 in Clark and a top 10 in Coffield.

So what would we prefer? Personally would hate to lose a Gresh even for pick 2

Absolutely spot on. Especially in this era where clubs are more prepared to lure young players away from their club with big money offers on the promise of potential

I'm warming to Clark now. Can see a lot of scope for improvement

 

[gringo2011]

Absolutely spot on. Especially in this era where clubs are more prepared to lure young players away from their club with big money offers on the promise of potential

I'm warming to Clark now. Can see a lot of scope for improvement

I'm absolutely certain that HC will be at very least as good as Steele but with extra pace and spread. He's the one draftee I'm very confident will be a good player. Has a high ceiling too, he has some party tricks that will make him fun to watch.

 

[VDS66]

And most are young with experience.
The kid is a mile behind but let's see, stranger things have happened.

On your logic we pick no-one.

That's how it works buddy. You identify talent and give them the opportunity.

They make it, great. If not you churn players.

It's a numbers game. We are no different to any other club.

 

[Loading]

*And Nick Coffield.

Agree to disagree

 

[Snailspace13]

Agree to disagree

Reason being

 

[Loading]

Reason being

I think coff is better than Hunter and will be in the top 3 of this draft comfortably

 

[Snailspace13]

i'm not a fan of clark, but i think what you are saying is very true. his kicking is fine its more his decision making and go forward at all costs that hurts him.

maybe the club see's him as the player they can improve the most. i.e. its pretty bloody hard to make players good kicks but i think you can coach him to move the ball at better angles etc.

the other knock on him was his tank which maybe we think a full time professional environment will improve it for him

so maybe clark is the player they think has all the attributes to be an AFL player, but he's just not rated as highly because he's yet to fully utilise them

36 hours later,you have changed your mind and he hasnt even had a training run since,being picked.

 

[gringo2011]

36 hours later,you have changed your mind and he hasnt even had a training run since,being picked.

36 hours is a long time in footy. I'm over melting and am going to pretend I wanted all of them from the start in case they are good.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Agree to disagree

Our club rated Clark VERY highly, much higher than Coffield.

 

[Loading]

Our club rated Clark VERY highly, much higher than Coffield.

I'm more going off my own opinion rather than the top 5 they supposedly had, although I've heard that st Kilda were all over coffield like a bad smell