List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion II - Draft Day

[Phoenix_9]

We did get one of the top 5.

Any idea how we had the top 8 ranked?

 

[saintwazza]

Given that we picked up Logan Austin and clavarino looks like Sam Collins is going to miss out on that rookie spot.. will we definitely take Tom lamb with our other rookie spot along with Lewis Pierce

 

[Diehard Saint]

Nobody wants to say it, but Ben Long has bust written all over him.

The reason I'm not saying it is because there's no way I'm prepared to write him off after one season.

 

[King_Steele]

The reason I'm not saying it is because there's no way I'm prepared to write him off after one season.

Common sense prevails.

 

[lewdogs]

Nobody wants to say it, but Ben Long has bust written all over him.

Not so sure about that. He is a very aggressive player. He hasn't set the world on fire, but he's shown a little bit in at least two of the games he played. Very interested to see how he goes next year.

 

[atlaser]

Pretty well on the money from friends of mine who absolutely know all about it. But again, the delisting kick up the arse and move back home could yet be the making of him.

any other details?

 

[Mowman]

ITK any info on our Rookie Pick 8? Tom Lamb/Haiden Sloitche a chance?

Lamb hasn't been told anything either way about rookie draft

 

[RobbieMuir]

It sounds like Coffield grew nearly a centimetre between April and October this year. Many of the guys who are 17 / turning 18 continue to grow for another year or so, up until about 19. I wouldn't be surprised if Coffield ends up at 193cm or 194cm by this time next year. Once he fills out his frame he could end up as a massive sized midfielder (6'4" in the old measure). He was measured at 190.8 cm at the combine. Trout did mention that he thought Coffield might continue to grow. Having a guy that size with a 2.89 PB over 20m would be a real weapon for us.


(NB: Bailey Dale grew 4cm after his 18th birthday and I believe Blake Acres kept growing after turning 18 as well, just to name a couple.)

 

[Quixote]

The reason I'm not saying it is because there's no way I'm prepared to write him off after one season.

I'm not writing him off. But I've dialled his odds way out.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

On your logic we pick no-one.

That's how it works buddy. You identify talent and give them the opportunity.

They make it, great. If not you churn players.

It's a numbers game. We are no different to any other club.

No that's why clubs pick on a needs basis. Otherwise you can end up with far too many of the same type.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

They are underwhelming DE numbers mate.

Have a look at Dangerfield's then.

I don't think Dangerfield is the best comparison.

Why is that? Dangerfield is an elite mid.

Pendlebury?

Who are you trying to compare Clark to?

He's a half back that plays inside mid and will probably move into the midfield full-time now. Anything over 60% for a midfielder is elite mate.

When he plays HBF his disposal eff is higher but that's only natural.

He is similar to Jack Steele IMO in that he is aggressive in the contest, can win his own ball, is a tackling machine but the thing that separates him from others is his delivery. For him to be racking up near 30 possies a game at 60% DE is fantastic.

They're about average to a little bit below average for a midfielder I think. Although "disposal efficiency" as a statistic isn't really a perfect metric of how good or useful a player's disposal is.

DE is one of those horribly horribly flawed stats. But as a guide, 60% is well below ANY of the topline AFL mids. In fact, I cant find a single regular AFL mid that goes below 64% other than Cotchin.

70+ looks like your pass mark, and if you are below that then you better be bloody elite at something else. Apart from a handful of statistical outliers (which someone will no doubt point out), if you aren't going 68+, then you have a very big problem (Cough Ziebell Cough).

Looking solely at this stat, for 2017:
Lewis, McCrae, Oliver and Ward look like elite users / decision makers
Ziebell, Danger, Wines and particularly Cotchin look like butchers
Make of that what you will.

2017 average DE% for topline mids (Im sure I have missed a few but you get the idea).
Lewis 78.7
Macrae 77.1
Oliver 77
Ward 76 (Want)
Scully 75.8
Libba 75.6
Steele 75.7 (I like this)
Wallis 75.4
Duncan 74.9
Pendlebury 74.7
Selwood 74.5
Kelly 74.2 (also want)
Gaff 74.1
Redden 74.1
Fyfe 73.1 (you would be shocked if you listen to this board)
Murphy 72.8
Mundy 72.8
Mitchell 72.6
Ross 72.6
Brayshaw 72.6
Hall 72.3
Sidebottom 72.2
M.Crouch 72.1
Griffen 71.9
Shiel 71.8
Coniglio 71.6
D.Beams 71.5
Shuey 71.5
Parish 71.4
Toranto 71.4
Hannebury 71.3
Steven 71.1
Boak 71.1
Adams 70.8
Merrett 70.7
Cunnington 70.7
Miller 70.7
Heppell 70.5
Ablett 70
Gibbs 69.8
Sloane 69.4
Heeney 69.4
B.Crouch 69.3
Rockliff 69.2
Cripps 68.7
Treloar 68.6
Viney 68
Bont 67.8
Kennedy 67.4
Danger 65.9
Wines 65.2
Ziebell 64.9
Martin 64.8
Cotchin 62.7

 

[VDS66]

No that's why clubs pick on a needs basis. Otherwise you can end up with far too many of the same type.

So tell me who?

Needs basis, what does that mean?

Long term needs, does that count?

Are 100% certain he will play in defence?

Are you 100% certain that Rice will make it as a better player?

Or should we have just gambled on a mid who is less talented than him?

 

[SK_MD_#7]

Hoping for Lamb in the RD but wouldn’t be shocked if he’s gone before Pick 8. Could see Pies for one taking the chance there...

Also feeling a club will get in for Pierce ahead of us.. wouldn’t be shocked if GWS have an interest.

 

[triggering bro]

Rookie draft options I’m hoping for.

Trent Mynott 185cm 75kg MID
Outside midfielder. Averaged 22 touches in the TAC. Strengths include acceleration, agility & clearance work.


Jordon Butts 196cm 82kg TALL FWD/DEF
Born on the last day of the year & the youngest eligible player. Tall fwd/def. strengths include markings, versatility & endurance.

 

[Ekomaira]

can't Lamb just come out and say something like "i only wanna go to the Saints"

seems everyone does it these days

 

[King_Steele]

Rookie draft options I’m hoping for.

Trent Mynott 185cm 75kg MID
Outside midfielder. Averaged 22 touches in the TAC. Strengths include acceleration, agility & clearance work.


Jordon Butts 196cm 82kg TALL FWD/DEF
Born on the last day of the year & the youngest eligible player. Tall fwd/def. strengths include markings, versatility & endurance.

Give me some Butts.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Why would you take a ruck when someone with good skills, kicks on both sides and speed is available? We don't have a ruck shortage unless you think we've drafted Marshall for his good looks.

Get smashed everytime I say this but Marshall is not a ruck. He is a KPF who can chop out. Can ruck if desperate but not what we are planning on using him for, nor what he has done at all at VFL (averages about 1 hitout a game at VFL).

Peirce is gone at the end of the year and not up to VFL at this stage (for a contracted player to be rookied says a lot). Unless he has a miracle recovery he is just playing out time. If Hick requests a trade, that leaves us with Longer and nothing for 2018.

Honestly surprised we didn't take Hayes at 45, giving us a clear no1 (Longer), mature backup (Hickey) and long term project (Hayes). To me that is much more balanced.

But hey, what do I know

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

StCicatriz said: ↑

sorry mate, i hope it didnt offend you too much

No problem at all mate. I apologise too.

Have a good one bud.

Nice work boys
Why cant the rest of the world solve their problems so peacefully

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Its not about letting them rot in the VFL thats not the issue, no one has an issue with our players playing VFL. Its the fact that players like Lonie, Acres have played in the VFL on the ball for 100 per cent of the game then they come in to the AFL team and get stuck at half forward/ or the wing and people wonder why they are inconsistant.

Also I think what OP was saying was that players like, Bont, Z Merret, Cripps are given the opportunity staright away to start in the centre. As much as I'd like to say that if we had taken Bont or Merret they'd be guns I just have doubts that they would;ve been the same opportunity to play on the ball. From game one Bont was playing on the ball as was Merret. If they were at the saints they would have both been played at Hf before maybe getting some time on the wing and if they are lucky maybe 5 minutes in the centre square. Therefore someone like Coffield who has all the tools to be prototype inside mid if he was given the ooportunity. However, Richo no doubt not afford him the chance on the ball at AFL level that coff would get at the dogs/essendon/melbourne

The biggest issue though is that Richo has shown time and time again is that if we are winning by 60 or losing by 60 he still refuses to change the midfield set up. Seriously when there is absolutley nothing to lose why doesn't he try and play Billings/Acres/Sincs/Gresh/ heck even Membrey on the ball for at least 5 minutes. Who knows how they will go. BUt I'll tell you something we won't know unless richo tries it. So yes it's not an issue over these players getting games its about not allowing them to flourish, espeicallly early.

Most dominant game any Saint played all year was Lonie in the middle in the VFL late in the year. Would be daylight to the next best.

I know he is short, but anyone else see that game?

 

[pebblesofsand]

Nobody wants to say it, but Ben Long has bust written all over him.

On what basis?

 

[StCicatriz]

Would hold the rains on that one a little. Some of the reports on VFL get very very carried away in here. Hope the kid makes it and he showed flashes in his last VFL game (maybe top 10 on the ground).

But outside of Pierce is probably coming from the furthest back. Will have to improve significantly to stay on the list (fingers crossed)

i tell you what there's going to some pressure applied to players next year. here's the out of contract ones that probably should be worried:
Gilbert (32 yr old)
Brown (29 yr old)
Weller
Minchington
Wright
Freeman
Lonie
Goddard
Phillips

even David Armitage (1 more year to run after next season, could retire early)

if we make finals i could see us attracting 2 trades. 1 elite the other very good, to go with 3 draftees and another spot for an upgrade. so we probably will need the 6 spots free.

that doesnt leave much room for contract renewals

 

[majortinkle]

We desperately need sandy to be less of the basket case it was last year. We're at the stage where we can't do all our developing in the seniors any more.

 

[majortinkle]

i tell you what there's going to some pressure applied to players next year. here's the out of contract ones that probably should be worried:
Gilbert (32 yr old)
Brown (29 yr old)
Weller
Minchington
Wright
Freeman
Lonie
Goddard
Phillips

even David Armitage (1 more year to run after next season, could retire early)

if we make finals i could see us attracting 2 trades. 1 elite the other very good, to go with 3 draftees and another spot for an upgrade. so we probably will need the 6 spots free.

that doesnt leave much room for contract renewals

Trouble is I think Gilbert will play every game if fit. Don't get me wrong, he is ahead of the kids, but for our future he needs to take a back seat.

A big battle to take that pressure forward slot. I'm hoping it is a single slot and Weller takes it tbh

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

With all this talk of versatility of The Coff being able to play mid ,does anyone have his 2km trial numbers?

 

[StCicatriz]

We desperately need sandy to be less of the basket case it was last year. We're at the stage where we can't do all our developing in the seniors any more.

well said