Preview 2018 1st Semi Final: Hawthorn v Melbourne, 14 September 2018, 7.50pm @ MCG

[Hawk Dork]

We will save it for the GF

 

[Smooth Banana]

I'd never dare question the great Clarko, but I just don't know why someone hasn't tried it.

Richmond wasn't that good and now seem invincible.

Perhaps it actually works!

That style works for tigers though, they have speed all over and run both ways. You proposing changing our game style as of next week? Would need a preseason to implement a change like that. I actually thought we did ok against the Tigers, were right in it at half time. Should have been in front really, with those missed shots at goal. That could have sparked a few more. Tigers then destroyed us in 15 mins like we used to destroy teams. Right now they are the best team but they can be beaten.

Give us a sunny day in the grand final and we got a good chance. Just need to get through Melbourne, tough ask. Beat them and we will do a job on the Eagles. Then beat the Tigers of course.

 

[H2F]

That style works for tigers though, they have speed all over and run both ways. You proposing changing our game style as of next week? Would need a preseason to implement a change like that. I actually thought we did ok against the Tigers, were right in it at half time. Should have been in front really, with those missed shots at goal. That could have sparked a few more. Tigers then destroyed us in 15 mins like we used to destroy teams. Right now they are the best team but they can be beaten.

Give us a sunny day in the grand final and we got a good chance. Just need to get through Melbourne, tough ask. Beat them and we will do a job on the Eagles. Then beat the Tigers of course.

But how can any team (even our mighty hawks) with all our heart, compete with them when they only run 2/3 of what our players do?

How many games does it take to see they grind everyone down in the end?

We can't ask JOM, TOM, Burgers etc to run 4 quarters with them unless we change things up.

 

[grumbleguts]

I was part of the Demon Alternative and seated at Dallas Brooks Hall in 1996. Needless to say I voted no.

My Brother was on Hawthorn's senior list for 3 years and parents barrack for your mob, so it will be an interesting Friday night.

I do find it amusing that you think it's some kind of badge of honour that you personally barrack for Hawthorn. It means Jack Shit, mate.

No I don't see it as a badge of honour that I support Hawthorn. I see it as a badge of honour that I don't support Melbourne. Or did you find that subtle nuance difficult to understand from my fairly patent post.

 

[H2F]

No I don't see it as a badge of honour that I support Hawthorn. I see it as a badge of honour that I don't support Melbourne. Or did you find that subtle nuance difficult to understand from my fairly patent post.

I call BS!

 

[Smooth Banana]

But how can any team (even our mighty hawks) with all our heart, compete with them when they only run 2/3 of what our players do?

How many games does it take to see they grind everyone down in the end?

We can't ask JOM, TOM, Burgers etc to run 4 quarters with them unless we change things up.

You mean distance covered by players? Please explain, provide stats as I'm clueless

 

[H2F]

You mean distance covered by players? Please explain, provide stats as I'm clueless

Yes

 

[Gralin]

But how can any team (even our mighty hawks) with all our heart, compete with them when they only run 2/3 of what our players do?

How many games does it take to see they grind everyone down in the end?

We can't ask JOM, TOM, Burgers etc to run 4 quarters with them unless we change things up.

they lost 4 games during the year, they are beatable, but I get what you are saying. At the G they are much harder to pull out of their structure

 

[Smooth Banana]

they lost 4 games during the year, they are beatable, but I get what you are saying. At the G they are much harder to pull out of their structure

We've seen many structures fall apart with the right ammo. In the wet though, they will be hard to beat

 

[H2F]

You mean distance covered by players? Please explain, provide stats as I'm clueless

I searched 4 stats sites and none have distanced covered.

But at the G on Thursday about halfway through the third quarter they put it up on the scoreboard.

It was all Hawks (maybe one Tiger near the bottom of the top ten) maybe.

I already suspected it but this proved it to me. No wonder they look so fit and grind teams down.

 

[Smooth Banana]

I searched 4 stats sites and none have distanced covered.

But at the G on Thursday about halfway through the third quarter they put it up on the scoreboard.

It was all Hawks (maybe one Tiger near the bottom of the top ten) maybe.

I already suspected it but this proved it to me. No wonder they look so fit and grind teams down.

I need to see stats, any champion data people here? Do the Tigers cover considerably less ground than other opponents? I wouldn't think so, but I'd like to know for sure.

 

[H2F]

I need to see stats, any champion data people here? Do the Tigers cover considerably less ground than other opponents? I wouldn't think so, but I'd like to know for sure.

Man I agree on getting some real stats, but I'm telling you I already believed this and then on Thursday saw it mid-way through the third quarter on the scoreboard.

The top ten players x distance were all Hawks (maybe bar one, I can't remember for certain)

CONFIRMED!

 

[killerspud]

I'm "lippy" at whom I choose.

Who I support and who you support is irrelevant.

Facts don't care about your or my "feelings".

It was a fact that the members of your club voted to merge with us

- how'd ya like those facts????

 

[Smooth Banana]

Man I agree on getting some real stats, but I'm telling you I already believed this and then on Thursday saw it mid-way through the third quarter on the scoreboard.

The top ten players x distance were all Hawks (maybe bar one, I can't remember for certain)

CONFIRMED!

You are assuming we can play that style with our list. We cannot.

 

[H2F]

You are assuming we can play that style with our list. We cannot.

I don't understand sorry.

'Play that style?'

You mean run 30% LESS?

 

[tommyk72]

Man I agree on getting some real stats, but I'm telling you I already believed this and then on Thursday saw it mid-way through the third quarter on the scoreboard.

The top ten players x distance were all Hawks (maybe bar one, I can't remember for certain)

CONFIRMED!

I noticed a similar one, but it was four of the top five being hawks. Gunston was one, as were smith and Mitch. Can’t remember our 4th, nor the tigers player.

 

[MasterSamurai]

I don't understand sorry.

'Play that style?'

You mean run 30% LESS?

Tigers recruited certain types and trained hard for this style of ‘ move the ball frwd at all costs and tackle in numbers , gain meterage in front of the contest ‘ types a few years ahead of us.
They have a real weird style of game that gives them an edge , it is NOT stat based at all, other than Dusty not too many of their players are exactly elite in too many categories BUT, they DO cover for each other better than us! It may be hard for us to admit to that as supporters but the tigers definitely do the little things better. I saw plenty of our boys give up on certain chases and just watched things unfold. This is something that clarko would be aware of and work hard on as long as it takes.
I mean have a look at our mids numbers, against every other side we probably romp it in but tigers did get 66 I50’s which is a bit of a concern tbh.

 

[Ingeniokinetic]

Mate, you can pump up the midfield dual all you want, but you’re talking about Mitchell, Jaeger, Burgoyne, Shiels. Worpel is a bull. Smith elite, and Hendo having a cracking year. McEvoy also.

Bring it.

Last thing I am doing is writing the Hawks off, I think it will be a ripper game, I acknowledge Smith, and where you guys might beat us, and that the Hawks year in and year out are a gun team (that I was jealous of for so long), but whether we have been the most crap team in the last 12 years is not what I am debating, or being lippy about, I reckon looking at the evidence of 2018, that our midfield will pose a problem for you and the supply you can get to kick a winning score. And tell me Viney doesn't remind you of Hodge/S.Mitchell. Also just quietly from what I hear you are carrying a few more injuries than us. Is going to be a bloody close match.

MasterSamurai, what is dangerous about our no name forward line is the goal assists, look it up, our team (when on admittedly) is the best at laying off to the better option. This bunch of no names is really good at sharing the goal kicking, it is also a bunch of no names that have kicked the most goals of any team this year. And watch a bloke called Salem set us up out of the backline, it's not just Lewis.

Forget the history (shooting fish in a barrel anyone) and all the cheap shots about the snow, look at the here and now, it will be a bloody tough game between two gun teams.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

On Richmond it is a strange one, whilst I think they have a good list it is nowhere near a dominant back to back type list so you have to give the Richmond coaching staff a lot of credit, and question several other teams methods.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Tigers recruited certain types and trained hard for this style of ‘ move the ball frwd at all costs and tackle in numbers , gain meterage in front of the contest ‘ types a few years ahead of us.
They have a real weird style of game that gives them an edge , it is NOT stat based at all, other than Dusty not too many of their players are exactly elite in too many categories BUT, they DO cover for each other better than us! It may be hard for us to admit to that as supporters but the tigers definitely do the little things better. I saw plenty of our boys give up on certain chases and just watched things unfold. This is something that clarko would be aware of and work hard on as long as it takes.
I mean have a look at our mids numbers, against every other side we probably romp it in but tigers did get 66 I50’s which is a bit of a concern tbh.

They had +29 entries with less of the ball than us, shows just how emphatic the move it forward at all costs method is for them.

 

[Move P]

You can get some of the GPS data from the AFL app. The total distance is pretty similar (287(haw) vs 279(rich)km), but Hawthorn had 4 of the top 5 individual distance covered while Richmond had 4 of the top 5 for repeat sprints. Probably illustrates the point.
Interesting to see that Howe and JOM were our fastest top speeds.

 

[PhatHQ]

On Richmond...
they don’t need to work as hard (distance) because they are direct & rely on turnovers & stoppages for their play structure to be so effective.
Given the possession game, Hawks have to work harder for the space.
On Thursday we were as combative & ferocious in the first qtr as some of the premiership teams we’ve had in the 3 peat; we couldn’t sustain it as the Hawks system is possession based.
Given a second crack on a dry day I have no doubt that we can implement the tempo style, posesssion game plan to control situations. There is certainly the capacity to go punch for punch with the Tigers but it has to be on the Hawks terms & not a shithouse wet night at the G.
Saturday arvo, sun shining, 90k screaming fans.....

 

[H2F]

You can get some of the GPS data from the AFL app. The total distance is pretty similar (287(haw) vs 279(rich)km), but Hawthorn had 4 of the top 5 individual distance covered while Richmond had 4 of the top 5 for repeat sprints. Probably illustrates the point.
Interesting to see that Howe and JOM were our fastest top speeds.
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It makes sense because if they’re running primarily in only two thirds of the ground they will have the gas to be better at repeat sprints.

It also explains why we have 4/5 players covering distance.

The total distance makes sense to as they are still gonna run as much just in their zones and probably sprint more often. Just a theory anyway.

 

[HedgeFund]

But how can any team (even our mighty hawks) with all our heart, compete with them when they only run 2/3 of what our players do?

How many games does it take to see they grind everyone down in the end?

We can't ask JOM, TOM, Burgers etc to run 4 quarters with them unless we change things up.

Firstly - they don’t. To suggest Richmond players only run 8-10kms in a game whilst the opposition mids run 12-15km is patently wrong. They may run slightly less, perhaps 85-90%, but I put that down to the following:

1. Their backline intercept mark / rebound better than any other team. Hence the ball spends less time in their back third than most other sides. Hence there are less stoppages that their mids need to attend in their back third. Hence they run 5-10% less in not having to get back to help out.

2. They are more direct and efficient with ball in hand in their front third. They happily take “dirty” entries (ie. not perfect kicks) to their forwards because they back those guys in to win the footy at ground level. Their mids don’t have to push into their F50 because the ball usually goes from entry to shot for goal better than any other team. This means 5-10% less running into their forward 50 to help out.

That makes 10-20% less running which, over the course of a season will keep them comfortably fresher than any other side.

It’s not coachable as such, nor is it tactical. It comes down to having faith in your team mates to do their job, which Richmond has in spades, and being able to run smart - safe in the knowledge that you’re not needed to win the footy.

 

[H2F]

Firstly - they don’t. To suggest Richmond players only run 8-10kms in a game whilst the opposition mids run 12-15km is patently wrong. They may run slightly less, perhaps 85-90%, but I put that down to the following:

1. Their backline intercept mark / rebound better than any other team. Hence the ball spends less time in their back third than most other sides. Hence there are less stoppages that their mids need to attend in their back third. Hence they run 5-10% less in not having to get back to help out.

2. They are more direct and efficient with ball in hand in their front third. They happily take “dirty” entries (ie. not perfect kicks) to their forwards because they back those guys in to win the footy at ground level. Their mids don’t have to push into their F50 because the ball usually goes from entry to shot for goal better than any other team. This means 5-10% less running into their forward 50 to help out.

That makes 10-20% less running which, over the course of a season will keep them comfortably fresher than any other side.

It’s not coachable as such, nor is it tactical. It comes down to having faith in your team mates to do their job, which Richmond has in spades, and being able to run smart - safe in the knowledge that you’re not needed to win the footy.

Dustin Martin has only had 5 possessions for the season in Richmond’s defensive 50.

That’s real. I’d suggest many players are directed to stay in designated areas (2/3 of the ground). It doesn’t mean they run less, but as the stats show they are able to run faster and repeat sprints.