2019 4th Ashes Test 2019 Old Trafford

[Jack Lord]

Just don’t give em a sniff in the fourth innings. The last thing we need is for the kiwi firecrotch to pull another miracle out of his a%$e.

 

[Pykie]

This is almost the exact circumstance they would have hope for when they picked him

We have runs to play with on a potential up and down day 4/5 deck.

If he rolls the tail quickly or knocks over Root/Stokes with a Jaffa he has done his the job they would have picked him for .

I’m sorry, when you have bowlers like Pattinson and Siddle in the sheds and Richardson when he recovers, you don’t pick an expensive tail specialist.

It puts far too much pressure on the other 3 bowlers.

 

[Andrew Birch]

Shows how poor England's batting stocks are when they are picking guys like Denly and Roy who are clearly not up to test standard.

They would have been better off going back to the likes of Vince and Malan, they weren't great either but they were still better than Denly and Roy.

Vince was awful and no better than the current spuds. Keeper & slips would be rubbing their hands with glee though.

 

[CrowBloke]

The only thing starc has going for him is his ability to bowl at the tail.

I understand the complaints about Starc's bowling last night (woeful, sprayed all over), but the passage quoted is just not accurate, or fair.
He has 211 Test Wickets. Of those, 75 are Top 3 batsmen (35.5%, nearly 25/position!), 67 are tail (8-11, 31.7%, nearly 17/position).
Starc gets out more Top 3 batsmen than tailenders and his hooping yorkers are nightmares for all of them.
Hazlewood and Cummins have set it up for Starc to shine, if he seizes the opportunity.

Let's hope he finds his mojo in the first session tomorrow ... waddaya reckon?

 

[grumbleguts]

I understand the complaints about Starc's bowling last night (woeful, sprayed all over), but the passage quoted is just not accurate, or fair.
He has 211 Test Wickets. Of those, 75 are Top 3 batsmen (35.5%, nearly 25/position!), 67 are tail (8-11, 31.7%, nearly 17/position).
Starc gets out more Top 3 batsmen than tailenders and his hooping yorkers are nightmares for all of them.
Hazlewood and Cummins have set it up for Starc to shine, if he seizes the opportunity.

Let's hope he finds his mojo in the first session tomorrow ... waddaya reckon?

What the hell? I never said he COULDN'T bowl to the top order. I said he CAN bowl to the tail when others can't.

 

[ABAB]

Couldn’t keep the lids open last night - did the pitch start to misbehave a little ?

The pitch was never as flat as most thought, Root and Burn played well but rode their luck, Cummins bowled excellent late (used fast bouncer and seam delivery very well), Hazelwood got LBW of Root and bowled Roy with excellent in-seam and got Burns with a rising delivery late in the day, Lyons getting quick turn when he pitch it up (been inconsistent with at least one drag down delivery every over), he will be the key bowler in day 4 and 5.

 

[Taylor]

I understand the complaints about Starc's bowling last night (woeful, sprayed all over), but the passage quoted is just not accurate, or fair.
He has 211 Test Wickets. Of those, 75 are Top 3 batsmen (35.5%, nearly 25/position!), 67 are tail (8-11, 31.7%, nearly 17/position).
Starc gets out more Top 3 batsmen than tailenders and his hooping yorkers are nightmares for all of them.
Hazlewood and Cummins have set it up for Starc to shine, if he seizes the opportunity.

Let's hope he finds his mojo in the first session tomorrow ... waddaya reckon?

So he is statistically as likely to get batsman 1,2 Or 3 as he is to get 8, 9, 10 or 11?

 

[Bradesmaen]

I understand the complaints about Starc's bowling last night (woeful, sprayed all over), but the passage quoted is just not accurate, or fair.
He has 211 Test Wickets. Of those, 75 are Top 3 batsmen (35.5%, nearly 25/position!), 67 are tail (8-11, 31.7%, nearly 17/position).
Starc gets out more Top 3 batsmen than tailenders and his hooping yorkers are nightmares for all of them.
Hazlewood and Cummins have set it up for Starc to shine, if he seizes the opportunity.

Let's hope he finds his mojo in the first session tomorrow ... waddaya reckon?

Why don't you analyse how many of those top 3 had scored 50's or more before he got them out? and how many were not Sri Lankan or West Indies - the worst two teams around for batting against fast bowling.

14 of those 75 are after they have scored more than 50 runs. 8 are 30-50 runs. Now lets take the shit teams out of this because we know how much he beats up on Sri Lanka. 16 of his top 3 batsmen are from Sri Lanka, 4 from the Windies. Only 2 of those passed 50. So it's now 12 of his 59 top 3 wickets passed 50 before he got them.

 

[CrowBloke]

What the hell? I never said he COULDN'T bowl to the top order. I said he CAN bowl to the tail when others can't.

Calm down, I wasn't sledging you. No offence meant. You said (verbatim):
"The only thing starc has going for him is his ability to bowl at the tail. ".

 

[CrowBloke]

So he is statistically as likely to get batsman 1,2 Or 3 as he is to get 8, 9, 10 or 11?

Actually, more likely to get 1-3 (25 times/position on average) than 8-11 (just under 17 times/position on average).
Claiming he is only effective @ tailenders is incorrect, if "effective" means taking their wicket.

 

[ABAB]

Why don't you analyse how many of those top 3 had scored 50's or more before he got them out? and how many were not Sri Lankan or West Indies - the worst two teams around for batting against fast bowling.

No doubt he is in a form slump (like Warner with his batting), that's why he is only playing now in the 4th Test.

 

[Bradesmaen]

No doubt he is in a form slump (like Warner with his batting), that's why he is only playing now in the 4th Test.

It's not a form slump when it is his entire career. It's kind of like saying Fremantle is in a form slump because they haven't played in a GF since 2013 when the entire history of the footy club has basically been mediocrity.

 

[Austoraisetheurn]

I’m sorry, when you have bowlers like Pattinson and Siddle in the sheds and Richardson when he recovers, you don’t pick an expensive tail specialist.

It puts far too much pressure on the other 3 bowlers.

Think writing off Starc based on one day of cricket is a bit premature....even for bigfooty....the guy is 29 and capable of serious pace.

Looked like he was in between last night....torn between line and length and hostility.

Wouldnt surprise me if he comes out and blasts Eng away on day 4.

Needs to bowl 145+ to be an asset.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Fun fact of the day: Shane Watson has a better bowling average in England than Starc.

 

[ABAB]

It's not a form slump when it is his entire career. It's kind of like saying Fremantle is in a form slump because they haven't played in a GF since 2013 when the entire history of the footy club has basically been mediocrity.

I thought he had an very good start to his career, he strike early removing openers with his fast swing to RH batters, seems to have lost that ability.

 

[Westend]

It's not a form slump when it is his entire career. It's kind of like saying Fremantle is in a form slump because they haven't played in a GF since 2013 when the entire history of the footy club has basically been mediocrity.

Well how did he take over 200 wickets at an ave of 28 then ???...if he is in a form slump his entire career!!!

 

[Park cricketer]

 

[Spirit Level]

Been re-living highlights of the 2005 series recently. Jesus that really had the feeling of an uprising to it, you woulda loved being an england fan at that time.

Simon Jones should've had a way bigger career.

 

[1989]

I really hoped Starc not playing would have been the wake up call he needed. As much as I wanted him to do well, last night was woeful and made me just want Siddle or Pattinson out there (or anyone). Really hope he can do well today and tomorrow, but at the moment he is a luxury. Building pressure and nipping it around off the seam has worked.

 

[Pykie]

Think writing off Starc based on one day of cricket is a bit premature....even for bigfooty....the guy is 29 and capable of serious pace.

Looked like he was in between last night....torn between line and length and hostility.

Wouldnt surprise me if he comes out and blasts Eng away on day 4.

Needs to bowl 145+ to be an asset.

I'm writing him off based on watching him almost exclusively for the last 8 years...

He's just not a very good test bowler.

Warne, Slater, Healy and all his bum buddies always have an excuse for him.

"you need to use him in bursts"

"hes not a traditional test bowler"

"back him to bowl his wicket balls, you know he will leak a few runs"


He bowls at 145kph, so ****ing what? Shaun Tait was an average test bowler in the same vein that got the ass very quickly from the test side.

He gets 30% of his wickets from no 9,10 & 11's.

He opens the bowling in nearly every test he plays, is it just me, or is it unrealistic for me to expect your opening bowler to be making a consistent impact against, you know, the top order with the new ball?!

You consistently have to wait 70 or 80 overs for him to enter the game with the ball and by that stage he's usually leaked 60 or 70 runs at a very decent clip and wasted the new ball on sometimes two occasions.

He's ****ing shit.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Well how did he take over 200 wickets at an ave of 28 then ???...if he is in a form slump his entire career!!!

It's matching his career in England - his best bowling is 6/111 then 5/114. Next best is 3/76, 3/81 and 3/94. Then it's 2/54, 2/60 and 2/71.

Those are not the stats of a top bowler in bowling conditions.

 

[DamoESP]

You can always Ric Flair your way out of anything

 

[Crankyhawk]

On the other hand, apart from Stokes, England's batting line up has been even worse and on home soil to boot.

View attachment 741797

On those figures burns is a pass to good (doesn’t talk about how many times nearly out), root a bare pass.

 

[ABAB]

I'm writing him off based on watching him almost exclusively for the last 8 years...

He's just not a very good test bowler.

Warne, Slater, Healy and all his bum buddies always have an excuse for him.

"you need to use him in bursts"

"hes not a traditional test bowler"

"back him to bowl his wicket balls, you know he will leak a few runs"


He bowls at 145kph, so ******* what? Shaun Tait was an average test bowler in the same vein that got the ass very quickly from the test side.

He gets 30% of his wickets from no 9,10 & 11's.

He opens the bowling in nearly every test he plays, is it just me, or is it unrealistic for me to expect your opening bowler to be making a consistent impact against, you know, the top order with the new ball?!

You consistently have to wait 70 or 80 overs for him to enter the game with the ball and by that stage he's usually leaked 60 or 70 runs at a very decent clip and wasted the new ball on sometimes two occasions.

He's ******* s**t.

He bowl best with the old ball using reverse swing, shouldn't get the new ball as he has lost the ability to ball those conventional fast in swing to RH, used to get a lot of top orders with that delivery.

 

[Crankyhawk]

At this stage I'd bring in one of the female English cricket players to replace Roy.

I’d bring in perry and Healey (Alyssa) for our openers.