List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part V

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Sir Skid said:
Heard Lethers on SEN this morning.
Likely a backup ruck drafted to fill Paddy spot on list. Who's likely?
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there are a few WAFL rucks who would be worth a punt... personally i would look for a mature ager big body mid from a state comp to come in as a back up as we are pretty light on grunt if we get an injury to a inside mid .. doesnt need to be flashy but just able to get in and put up a fight for the contested ball .. with a bit of agro to him ... dunno who fits that mould
 
st_trav_ofWA said:
you men the spud that was delisted from Essendon ? ???
pass !!!
i would rather run Lonie as ruck ... or redraft Longer or Lewie .... or call the big yank Jason Holmes back
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Delisted from Essendon to try and make room for them to bring in Sandilands.... 🙄
 

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NeXus Nick said:
You have conveniently omitted that we also gave away Bruce, Steven, Blacres and future 3rd and 4th round picks. But that's ok, it makes your point stronger.
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Have you forgotten that we actually got players back?
Five of them, to be exact.
 
NeXus Nick said:
You have conveniently omitted that we also gave away Bruce, Steven, Blacres and future 3rd and 4th round picks. But that's ok, it makes your point stronger.
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And you're completely forgetting we went into this year with just a first and 2 fourth rounds, basically giving away Stuv, Newnes and Acres and getting unders for Bruce, yet still pulled off a list transforming trade period whilst maintaining the same or better equity for next year that we started this year with.
A mediocre pass in kindergarten mathematics is enough to understand what the rest of the footballing world are able to see, yet somehow it still manages to escape your grasp.
In other news, the earth is round, the sky is blue, and water flows downhill except in space.
 
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st_trav_ofWA said:
i dont think the salary was actually a problem ... it was a line that Solarium Terry got hold of and ran with it all trade week ...
i think the issue was Bruce wanting an extension with the value he was expecting was going to be an issue for us moving forward.. rightfully so Bruce was one of our highest paid players and that was fine while he was considered one of our top three players but when we are talking about the perception from the club that Bruce is going to slip down that pecking order in the next 6 to 12 months that contract extension value that he wanted potentially gives us an issue .. holding both Bruce and Stuvs salary in 202 doesnt hurt us and realistically outside of needing the draft picks we could have got all 5 players in and kept both guys in 2020 but post 2020 when we would need to negotiate others on the list who will be wanting more (rightfully so we hope) and potentially bringing in more quality through either trades or free agency then the cap would become quiet tight ...

Solarium Terry got it somewhat right but a little off the track Bruce was in part a salary dump yes but not cause we need it in 2020 more so we have that free'd up for beyond 2020 .. the trade high was an attempt to help both Bruce get what he wanted from the dogs and get us the maximum return for Bruce before the value dropped ... it worked for Bruce getting what he wanted but not so much in us getting an overs trade for him but in the end it facilitated us landing all 5 of our targets so we walk away happy , Bruce walks away happy and the dogs walk away happy .... as i said mature and respectful trading by the saints crew
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i'm not referring to anything terry said purely the discussion on here over the last 4 years is that we've had this big war chest from front loading contracts. we've specifically mentioned stuv and bruce in that discussion.

then we get to trading them and now the discussion is that we had dumped their salary.

it cannot be both. one is wrong. which one is it?
 
ScrappyDo said:
Why are you putting any stock in what anyone here says?
It's like when the membership girl told you about the results or the review, that the club fully backed Richo and then you gave her a big bunch of your money, then spent 6 months losing your mind!
Why do you keep believing what you hear from disreputable sources?
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"membership girl" yeah that's not who called me.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
I think you’ll find that most years we have had plenty of $$$ to spend thanks to front loading deals. When the big name FA didn’t arrive, the contracts were re-done so that the salary floor was met.

Hence we may have front loaded a few deals but by not as much as they had originally planned.

Does that make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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so we basically overpaid bruce and stuv to make the salary floor. so instead of bruce being on 650k a year there's the possibility he was on much more? is that what you are trying to say?
 
StCicatriz said:
I reckon you are closer to the truth than anything talked about on here over the last 4 years.

The salary floor dictates that we are at best 10% better off when we bank the cap saving. 5% in every other year. Which on 13m is 650k to 1.3m.

The fact people are saying we are salary dumping Bruce's and stuvs last year tells you we were not front loading their contracts to the extent everyone thought. And I think the reason for that is we have to hit 95% when we are performing as a bottom 6 side. You front load the hell out of it and then how do we hit the 95%? By paying them double?

So all this talk about front loading contracts has been wrong. It just wasn't true. If it was true then the salary dump never happened and bruce/stuv were able to double dip in a similar manner to Hill, essentially meaning we didn't offload shit.
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Not quiet. We could choose to pay no promotional money in previous years and then pay it when we need to

as for front ending contracts not being true well unless you have figures of everyone’s earnings that’s a complete guess and as you normally have an agenda you are just trying to find another way to knock the club.
 
Sir Skid said:
Heard Lethers on SEN this morning.
Likely a backup ruck drafted to fill Paddy spot on list. Who's likely?
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Matty Lobbe has runs on the board.

I liked Tom Nicholls before he retired.

Nick Meese is 31 but could be a very handy back up for a couple of years at VFL level. Announced his retirement last week but the possibility of a spot on an AFL list might tempt him. Tell him he will play half a dozen AFL games as we rotate Ryder/Marshall through the year.
 

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Draft picks are overrated.

We haven't trashed thus year's draft, what a load of alarmist hyperbole. We have used pick 6 to get a proven speedy winger in his prime, a young key back and an experienced mentor for a bright up and comer in Marshall.

We have a heap of young players developing. We are missing players 22-28 y.o. to provide bodies and experience for Clarke, Coff and others.

Would you be happy with a team full of unproven 18-19 year Olds getting smashed each week? That can damage a club a-la Melbourne. This pathway has been proven to work best like Hawks topping up with young talent already there, Richmond the same etc...

How would the doggies have gone with a no. 1 draft picks rather than Boyd?
NeXus Nick said:
We are topping up with mature aged players. We have trashed this years draft completely and we only have one decent pick for next year.
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StCicatriz said:
so we basically overpaid bruce and stuv to make the salary floor. so instead of bruce being on 650k a year there's the possibility he was on much more? is that what you are trying to say?
Click to expand...

I think we overpaid a lot of players during the last decade.

No I was saying that the plan may have been to front load some player's deal to give us room to move in the future. When it came time to spend the saved TPP space but no big money player was signed, the club went back & re-did some contracts (not the guys who were front loaded as they've already received their coin). They may have used that money that was ear marked for Dusty, Fyfe or Kelly, to re-sign other players to extensions BEFORE their contracts were up or in their last year.

In Bruce's case, his last deal started in 2017. So lets say he was on $600k a year over 3. $1.8m all up.

They front load it so that in 2018, he's only on $300k allowing us to more $ to spend on a FA. No free agent signs so the club then uses that money to re-sign JB or Gresh and front load their deal.

I'm sure one of the financial gurus on here would be able to explain it clearer than I have Joffaboy but there's lots of moving money around so that they can;

a) meet the 95%
b) have money to spend on targets
c) re-sign the blokes that they want to sign

As for salary dumps for Bruce, Acres and Stuv, well it's pretty obvious to me that they will use a fair bit of that money on the incoming players and probably try to pay as much to them in 2020 as possible. Then for the 2021 season (whose contracts actually start on Nov 1st 2020), they will have room to move on another FA or OOC target.

I know you want a simple answer but managing a $12m salary cap with 40 odd players is a very complicated thing to do.

Lucky we have a banker in charge of it hey?
 
Plan for next year must be free agents and the draft can't keep going into deficit on future drafts. We have reset our best 22 with this years trading. We are still short of A grade mids but if we were to trade for one we would be trading away all our draft picks for the next two years on top of no draft picks this year. So Free agent A grade mids Crouch, Whitfield, Williams, Viney, are the only candidates that have a reasonable age profile that could improve our midfield. Of those Crouch is the obvious one to target given we had a crack this season but would take significant overs in dollars and years to dislodge him. Williams is the one that could be squeezed out at GWS though will depend on whether they retain Cameron and Whitfield and he is not really a midfielder, despite his cameo in the finals. Viney won't move and I think Whitfield will stay.
 
Gangnam Saint said:
Happy to get Bennell as long as he is our version of the Bubble Boy and not allowed anywhere near our young playing group, it could work out.

Still remember him cutting us up a few years ago at Marvel when he was playing with GCS and wishing we had a player like him.
Click to expand...
Now I'm stuck with a vision of Bennell tearing up the ground in a plastic bubble, knocking the ball in front of him and players bouncing off him. This might take time to delete...
 
mightymalaka said:
Toss up between an angry Matthew Capuano or a rejuvenated Cain Ackland!

No wonder GT didn't rate Rucks!
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Barry Brooks would have something to say about that
 

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List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part V

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