List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part III

[Ceanag]

Conspiracy Theory A

Imagine if the AFL found evidence of money paid outside the salary cap for [player A] in say 2018 and told Collingwood it would have to be retrospectively written back into their accounts. Forcing them to backend player contracts. Then COVID-19 comes along and the salary cap shrinks and list sizes are reduced. The Pies now need to salary dump in a big way and are forced to move 1.8 million out the door. They scrutinise their list to see who and how many contracts it takes to make up that amount.

Phillips has been dependable but they feel he is also expendable as he can be easily replaced by an up and comer like Will Kelly

20

Will Kelly

Age

24

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

.

Stephenson also comes in the firing line. After his brilliant debut season they threw some serious money at him, only to see him lose his way off field. Hub life also exposes a lack of the professionalism that they expect at the club. His magnet gets moved to the CUT LIST.

They still need to find $900k. Do they turf another two out or push an elite earner out the door. Grundy, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, De Goey, Treloar. This is a tough choice but they settle on Treloar and the rest is history.

The club contacts the AFL and asks them not to make public their indiscretions with irregular player payments. It would hamper our ability to negotiate trades at market rates.

But rumours abound. Players and player managers refuse to take it lying down. Opposition clubs sniff blood in the water and decide they can simply hold out and watch Collingwood crumble at the 11th hour.

All staff with a media presence are instructed to put up a wall of silence. There is no way to create a narrative here. The AFL media machine will trample them post trade period.

Make of it what you will.

Is that pure speculation or is there an actual element of truth to it.
Also ..after reading Conspiracy Theory A, I'm curious to know what Conspiracy Theory B is ..

 

[StCicatriz]

hey what was the stephenson rumours again. only reason i ask is the interview with his manager on fox today, he made this super weird comment. he was like "some players struggled with the hub. stephenson was one of those. so was grundy. unfortunately <insert the managers name here> couldn't be up in the hub, so we have no idea what they got up to up there."

that seems super super strange to say

 

[StCicatriz]

Is that pure speculation or is there an actual element of truth to it.
Also ..after reading Conspiracy Theory A, I'm curious to know what Conspiracy Theory B is ..

nothing beyond the beams rumour which broke shortly before beams took leave.

 

[scotteydog]

"Decent"? That depth is incredible.

That would be the the best paid VFL team ever.

Structure wise, still think we need depth in Ruck, KPB, KPF. But can we get that? in the draft.

 

[Nutsngum]

rumour was beams had a gambling debt of 1 million that magically just disappeared

I doubt Eddie Maguire is rich enough in pure cash to suddenly "miss" a million dollars.

 

[Significant]

hey what was the stephenson rumours again. only reason i ask is the interview with his manager on fox today, he made this super weird comment. he was like "some players struggled with the hub. stephenson was one of those. so was grundy. unfortunately <insert the managers name here> couldn't be up in the hub, so we have no idea what they got up to up there."

that seems super super strange to say

Rumour was that he solicited some needy female in his hotel room, make of that what you will before you take it to the bank.

 

[Jay Beast]

Why, I think they make a great pairing

Satan will get offers elsewhere, likely the only way we'll keep him.

 

[George]

Wow, that Ned Guy interview was an absolute joke. How anyone can take his answers seriously is beyond me.

I'd be furious if we had someone like him running our football club LOL

 

[freebloke]

There's been so many absolute steals today in trade week.... witherden, Stephenson, Phillips, treloar, brown etc.

I'm happy with what we've done so far but damn I wouldn't have minded getting around a few of them players at their value.

Definitely would have been interested in Witherden and Philips. Philips brother is at St Kilda, so don't know why we weren't in contention.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Collingwood really have butchered things since winning that flag against us and getting rid of Mick.

They were one of the most dominant teams of all time for about a year and a half across the 2010-2011 seasons, with a relatively young team that could have won multiple flags. But then Eddie's lovechild took over, and proceeded to dismantle the great team they had, then rebuilt it in his reflection and now it's all falling apart again!

 

[aussierulesrules]

Definitely would have been interested in Witherden and Philips. Philips brother is at St Kilda, so don't know why we weren't in contention.

Probably because he's not better than Hill, Billings, Hannebery (when fit), or Ross, and comes with a big salary, that we need like a hole-in-the-head!

 

[austinnn]

Definitely would have been interested in Witherden and Philips. Philips brother is at St Kilda, so don't know why we weren't in contention.

Because maybe his brother won't be with us for much longer.

Hope Ed is given more time, but he's one of the closest to the door now IMO.

 

[scotteydog]

I'm going to have a stab at our draft picks: 1st pick: Kane Baldwin, KPF, (S.A), 2nd Pick: Fraser Rosman KPF, (Sandy), 3rd Pick: A Ruckman, either had experience or rookie.

 

[Sheeza69]

View attachment 1010373

They will struggle to attract quality players for years now..
We're the destination club whilst the Pies will suffer long term consequences for their actions this trade period..
Players won't entertain crossing to the Pies after the club's treatment of Mayne, Cox, Treloar, Stephenson, Phillips in the last 3 post seasons.

Crouch & Higgins for a future 30-40 pick & a minor drop of 4 places in this year's draft, is the second year running we've owned the trade period..

 

[aussierulesrules]

This year, Richmond comfortably won their 3rd premiership in 4 years.

Two weeks earlier, they beat us (by a smaller margin), to knock us out of the finals.

Largely due to our inaccuracy and their kicking numerous goals out of their ass- especially early on. ("Expected scores" were 77-72, had both teams kicked for goal at the league average, from those positions).

To the Richmond team that beat us, they potentially add Soldo, if everyone's available next year.

We on the other hand potentially add:

Crouch
Gresham
Ryder
Carlisle
Long
Higgins

At the expense of say:

Marsh
Kent
Lonie
Savage
Geary
Sinclair

Hard to see much obvious scope for improvement in them next year, while we have it up the wazoo (at least for the team that lost that final). For reasons other than the above, too.

 

[George]

Why St Kilda And Jack Higgins Are A Match Made In Heaven


Another off-season, another breathtakingly ruthless job by the Saints.

No club has achieved a more comprehensive re-invention these past few years than St Kilda, who’ve continually used the trade period to apply cream to an already exceptionally well-made cake.

For years, their well-regarded recruiting arm has chipped away meticulously, while the inspired Brett Ratten

Brett Ratten

Age

53

Ht

184cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.4

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

12.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

appointmentchanged the entire tenor of the club, morphing it into one of the league’s most aggressive and attractive outfits.

The trade period meanwhile has been used expertly to round-out a rapidly-improving squad, continually landing their targets and moulding a team that’s now on the brink of serious contention.

Over the last few years the Saints have zeroed in on particular players to fill specific needs and have more often than not come away happy shoppers.

In 2015 it was Jake Carlise. A year later Jack Steele joined from the Giants and has since become an All-Australian and club Best and Fairest winner. In 2018 it landed Dan Hannebery, while last year it completely highjacked the trade period hauling in a quintet of established talent with all of Dan Butler, Dougal Howard, Zak Jones and Paddy Ryder finishing top-ten on Best and Fairest nigh while Brad Hill has potentially the biggest upside of the group.

This trade period has continued their winning ways, first landing 2019 Adelaide Best and Fairest winner Brad Crouch for absolutely nothing, while also nabbing Jack Higgins, who while not yet as decorated as St Kilda’s recent acquisitions, perhaps has the potential to be its most destructive.

The Jack Higgins fit at Moorabbin is ideal and should theoretically be a perfect home for the former Tiger’s predatory and improvisational skill-set.

The Saints under Ratten are a club that’s been intent on moving the ball fast and furiously. Last year they ranked 7th from a kick-to-handball perspective and 5th for total inside-50s, however it was the depth and penetration of those entries which made the Saints so potent, and which figures to fit in perfectly to Higgins’ wheelhouse.

Last season the Saints produced a league-leading 107 shots from 0-24 metre range. In fact, 1in every every 7.32 St Kilda inside-50s resulted in a shot from with that distance confirming that not every inside-50 entry is created equally, and that’s St Kilda’s were packing some serious venom.

In a frightening sign for the rest of the league, former #4 pick Max King looked brilliant in his debut season, leading the club in both marks inside-50 (30) and scoring shots (42). While King emerges as one of the league’s potentially most devastating key forward prospects, so too will the role of playing Robin to his Batman, and it’s a gig which Higgins will be delighted to assume.

In his three seasons at Punt Road, 17 of Higgins’ 60 total shots came from within that 0-24 metre range, while he converted those very opportunities at a staggering 88% accuracy. As a club, the Saints were hitting at 74% from that range in 2020, while Higgins looms as a significant upgrade over Jack Lonie who converted at just 44% last season.

Higgins’ lethal, attacking instincts are a prime reason why Richmond drafted him with their first round selection in 2017 fresh off a premiership, and why he could work wonders for the Saints.

Speaking of his former employers, it's perfectly understandable to question why the Tigers, the league’s unrivalled Goliath, ultimately felt he was surplus to requirements.

While Higgins did manage 43 games with the champs, his more instinctual talents didn’t always mesh with Richmond’s highly nuanced system. The defensive side of his game was also a concern, with Higgins averaging just 2.4 tackles per game, while he laid just 7 tackles inside-50 this season from his 10 games.

At St Kilda, Higgins need only look to former Richmond teammate Dan Butler to see what’s required from a defensive standpoint.

Butler was an absolute revelation this year earning a place on the initial 40-man All Australian squad, leading the league with 37 tackles inside-50. Higgins will also note that Butler’s defensive intensity didn’t impact his attacking output, with the former Ballarat junior leading the Saints with 29 goals this season.

Indeed if the penny does drop with Higgins, and he can add a pronounced defensive side to his game, the potential for the Saints forward line to become one of the league’s most fearsome is only enhanced.

This time last year, St Kilda were putting the finishing touches on an astonishing trade period which they hoped would help end their eight-year Finals drought. They achieved that swimmingly, occupying a top-8 spot for 16 of the league’s 18 rounds and even winning a Final in the process.

This year’s trade period has been about adding even more layers of class to a squad that the club will be hoping can help graduate to top-4 status.

St Kilda, like its style of play, is going somewhere ridiculously fast. The Higgins capture, while not as sexy as other player movement this off-season, has the chance to help take the Saints to the kind of heights the club has rarely scaled over the last 147 years.

 

[austinnn]

This year, Richmond comfortably won their 3rd premiership in 4 years.

Two weeks earlier, they beat us (by a smaller margin), to knock us out of the finals.

Largely due to our inaccuracy and their kicking numerous goals out of their ass- especially early on. ("Expected scores" were 77-72, had both teams kicked for goal at the league average, from those positions).

To the Richmond team that beat us, they potentially add Soldo, if everyone's available next year.

We on the other hand potentially add:

Crouch
Gresham
Ryder
Carlisle
Long
Higgins

At the expense of say:

Marsh
Kent
Lonie
Savage
Geary
Sinclair

Hard to see much obvious scope for improvement in them next year, while we have it up the wazoo. For reasons other than the above, too.

Have to imagine we'll be a fair bit hungrier than them in 2021. Our problem isn't going to be the Tigers, it'll be the other fast developing finalists. Geelong, Brisbane and Port all improved. Melbourne will be better, Bulldogs too. West Coast, who knows? If I had to stab at the Final 8 next year right now it would be, in no certain order; Tigers Cats Lions Power Saints Eagles Bulldogs Demons with 9th position a raffle between Blues Dockers and Suns.

 

[SaintJunior]

rumour was beams had a gambling debt of 1 million that magically just disappeared

Collingwood fans now hoping that Ned Guy would magically disappear.

Think old mate Ned forgot he was a liar manager and was still a player manager when offering new contracts to players.

What a nights entertainment, magnificent viewing topped off by the train wreck interview.

 

[pebblesofsand]

There's been so many absolute steals today in trade week.... witherden, Stephenson, Phillips, treloar, brown etc.

I'm happy with what we've done so far but damn I wouldn't have minded getting around a few of them players at their value.

Biggest steal of the draft was by the club who got a 100 game midfielder, who averages 26 possessions a game, for $600K a year and didn't even use a draft pick.

 

[snails13]

Frawley as back up or Wilkie and Coffield play key position. Yeah I’ll take Frawley thanks.

That Nick Hind

19

Nick Hind

Age

30

Ht

180cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.5

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.9

4star

MG

117.0

2star

D

9.5

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.0

3star

MG

117.0

2star

D

10.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

trade is utter junk.

Gags has lots of wins on the board and this really is a minor trade but geeze if you rate it on its own. Its a D- and I'm trying to be kind about it.

The only way it even remotely makes sense is if he had salary tied to him but if I recall he was out of contract. So it can't be that.

Just seriously bad.

Crouch situation A-

Higgins C+

Bombers were prepared to take him in the PSD,where we get nothing.
It was a goodwill trade

 

[triggering bro]

Hard to believe Collingwood were under the cap this year when you consider who they lost & the lack of players they brought in. Moore might’ve received a 200k pay rise? De Goey prob retains his current salary. Daicos prob receives an extra 200k. Treloar backended an extra 200-300k? The pay rises & lack of players coming in does not reflect a club that just shed 1.8m. Sounds like there has been some dodgy accounting over the previous few years.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

Have to imagine we'll be a fair bit hungrier than them in 2021. Our problem isn't going to be the Tigers, it'll be the other fast developing finalists. Geelong, Brisbane and Port all improved. Melbourne will be better, Bulldogs too. West Coast, who knows? If I had to stab at the Final 7 next year right now it would be, in no certain order; Tigers Cats Lions Power Saints Eagles Bulldogs Demons with the last final position a raffle between Blues Dockers and Suns.

Have to imagine we'll be a fair bit hungrier than them in 2021. Our problem isn't going to be the Tigers, it'll be the other fast developing finalists. Geelong, Brisbane and Port all improved. Melbourne will be better, Bulldogs too. West Coast, who knows? If I had to stab at the Final 7 next year right now it would be, in no certain order; Tigers Cats Lions Power Saints Eagles Bulldogs Demons with the last final position a raffle between Blues Dockers and Suns.

That’s a final 9

 

[cowboysteel3]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but AFL.com.au ranked Essendon 17th for trade period. Well done again Dodoro.

 

[Balmira]

I'm not sad about Hind personally. He has pace and he did a good job for us this year when it was needed, but I don't see him being a key piece in our premiership window. He'll be 27 next year and was picked up as a mature age recruit. I'd rather someone like Higgins getting games.

 

[austinnn]

Jayden has a history of whinging in public but this time he's within his rights.