List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[Bloods86]

Yep, Richmond is a great example of drafting right. One of the things I find of interest is that for his first few years, Rance was not good at all and was a bit of a whipping boy for their fans. He even shopped himself around to other clubs at the end of one of those seasons. It was only when he had been on their list for about 4-5 years that he started to show something, which makes you realise that this is a familiar trajectory for the big backs. Rance, Grundy, Richards, etc all looked completely lost at first until one year it clicked. That is why I am not at all prepared to write off Melican as it could be that something will click and he will make a fool of his detractors. Many have.

I'm not giving up on Melican either. I am just less convinced than I was back in his breakout year (3rd year). A lot of it is injury induced I believe, but regardless, we have to base decisions on outcomes. As others have said, his best is right up there, but his worst is just too poor. If he can remain injury free, we'll be able to judge him fairly. We have him for 2 more years anyway. So let's say it works out, then we've probably got to find another best 22 KPD and a solid backup out of Gould, BOC, Paddy. 2 out of 3 of those being AFL level seems a stretch at this point.

Some players can impact earlier, we have recent-ish examples of AJ, Aliir, Tom McCartin, Melican having an impact in their 2nd or 3rd years (AJ played 20 in his 1st year). But one things for sure, there's a much smaller chance of a drafted KPD having an impact in say 2-3 years from now when we'll really need it, if we put it off another year. Lesser importance, but it's probably worth a bit to have Rampe around for the 1st year of a KPDs development too, otherwise we're leaving it all up to poor Tom McCartin or Melican to be the mentors.

 

[the hypnotoad]

i very much agree on drafting a well-regarded tall defender ... despite my support for the paddy mccartin project

and further on the defender subject ... i have faith gould will make it as an important part of our defence in the next few years

 

[the hypnotoad]

Yep, Richmond is a great example of drafting right. One of the things I find of interest is that for his first few years, Rance was not good at all and was a bit of a whipping boy for their fans. He even shopped himself around to other clubs at the end of one of those seasons. It was only when he had been on their list for about 4-5 years that he started to show something, which makes you realise that this is a familiar trajectory for the big backs. Rance, Grundy, Richards, etc all looked completely lost at first until one year it clicked. That is why I am not at all prepared to write off Melican as it could be that something will click and he will make a fool of his detractors. Many have.

that rance example has been the case with several similar key defenders ... andrews and weitering, steven may had plenty of detractors early in his career

 

[dosser]

I'm not giving up on Melican either. I am just less convinced than I was back in his breakout year (3rd year). A lot of it is injury induced I believe, but regardless, we have to base decisions on outcomes. As others have said, his best is right up there, but his worst is just too poor. If he can remain injury free, we'll be able to judge him fairly. We have him for 2 more years anyway. So let's say it works out, then we've probably got to find another best 22 KPD and a solid backup out of Gould, BOC, Paddy. 2 out of 3 of those being AFL level seems a stretch at this point.

Some players can impact earlier, we have recent-ish examples of AJ, Aliir, Tom McCartin, Melican having an impact in their 2nd or 3rd years (AJ played 20 in his 1st year). But one things for sure, there's a much smaller chance of a drafted KPD having an impact in say 2-3 years from now when we'll really need it, if we put it off another year. Lesser importance, but it's probably worth a bit to have Rampe around for the 1st year of a KPDs development too, otherwise we're leaving it all up to poor Tom McCartin or Melican to be the mentors.

Yep, as they say, the best time to invest is 10 years ago.

 

[RUNVS]

I would be happy with Goater it’s why I want that Dogs pick 23 too.

Not sure I want him as his kicking is suspect.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Not sure I want him as his kicking is suspect.

Haven’t had a problem with his kicking

 

[Kiama Chris]

Oh yeah, it's definitely annoying, but not one I blame the club too much for, or Ling. Just unfortunate.

Ling was unfortunate. Injuries robbed him of his key development years. His original strengths would have fitted fine into today's team but he more or less lost them.
Stoddart had the skills and the development but not the composure or physicality at AFL level. Not luck, just the way it goes.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I'm not giving up on Melican either. I am just less convinced than I was back in his breakout year (3rd year). A lot of it is injury induced I believe, but regardless, we have to base decisions on outcomes. As others have said, his best is right up there, but his worst is just too poor. If he can remain injury free, we'll be able to judge him fairly. We have him for 2 more years anyway. So let's say it works out, then we've probably got to find another best 22 KPD and a solid backup out of Gould, BOC, Paddy. 2 out of 3 of those being AFL level seems a stretch at this point.

Some players can impact earlier, we have recent-ish examples of AJ, Aliir, Tom McCartin, Melican having an impact in their 2nd or 3rd years (AJ played 20 in his 1st year). But one things for sure, there's a much smaller chance of a drafted KPD having an impact in say 2-3 years from now when we'll really need it, if we put it off another year. Lesser importance, but it's probably worth a bit to have Rampe around for the 1st year of a KPDs development too, otherwise we're leaving it all up to poor Tom McCartin or Melican to be the mentors.

AJ was a great physical specimen from the beginning. At least 2 or 3 years ahead of his age - like Tom McCartin.
On top of that he was very composed - again ahead of his age.
Such a crying shame.

 

[Bloods86]

AJ was a great physical specimen from the beginning. At least 2 or 3 years ahead of his age - like Tom McCartin.
On top of that he was very composed - again ahead of his age.
Such a crying shame.

Maybe he was fit, but he was lighter than Bazzo for example, considered one of the more longer term KPDs available in the 20s/30s this year (and a similar size to McCartin at draft time). I'm not saying that a Bazzo or others will definitely be ready for senior games in < 2 years, but it is possible, and it is far less likely if we don't even try.

 

[hairy biker]

Not sure I want him as his kicking is suspect.

Haven’t had a problem with his kicking

I previously posted Goater's highlights provided by the AFL;

List Mgmt. - 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

www.bigfooty.com

I mentioned It's only a two minute clip and that's all I've seen of him, but I can't say Goater's kicking inspires confidence, even when in the clear.

This is a 3 minute clip of his involvement in the Vic metro v Vic country game from earlier in the season;




Fair to say it has not allayed my concerns about his kicking.

 

[Bloods86]

I previously posted Goater's highlights provided by the AFL;

List Mgmt. - 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

www.bigfooty.com

I mentioned It's only a two minute clip and that's all I've seen of him, but I can't say Goater's kicking inspires confidence, even when in the clear.

This is a 3 minute clip of his involvement in the Vic metro v Vic country game from earlier in the season;




Fair to say it has not allayed my concerns about his kicking.

Yikes... that disposal looks like JPK or Parker on a bad day. No thanks. We just shipped out the mid with our best disposal skills, would rather not replace them with this sort of stuff. If we're going to bring in an inside mid (at least 3rd or later on our list of priorities, behind KPD and outside/wing), either get a contested beast with questionable skills later on in the draft, or if we're paying up early for a classier type, one who can use it better.

 

[dosser]

I previously posted Goater's highlights provided by the AFL;

List Mgmt. - 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

www.bigfooty.com

I mentioned It's only a two minute clip and that's all I've seen of him, but I can't say Goater's kicking inspires confidence, even when in the clear.

This is a 3 minute clip of his involvement in the Vic metro v Vic country game from earlier in the season;




Fair to say it has not allayed my concerns about his kicking.

Only hit a target by foot once in an entire highlights clip.

 

[RUNVS]

Yikes... that disposal looks like JPK or Parker on a bad day. No thanks. We just shipped out the mid with our best disposal skills, would rather not replace them with this sort of stuff. If we're going to bring in an inside mid (at least 3rd or later on our list of priorities, behind KPD and outside/wing), either get a contested beast with questionable skills later on in the draft, or if we're paying up early for a classier type, one who can use it better.

It is why I like Taylor is that he is an inside mid who can hit a target by foot. He may not be quite as good inside as Goater but he is a much better kick.

 

[Bloods86]

It is why I like Taylor is that he is an inside mid who can hit a target by foot. He may not be quite as good inside as Goater but he is a much better kick.

Suspect he'll be more a hybrid because of his size, and his inside work is listed as one of his areas to improve, but it does sound like he's much more effective.

It sounds like we're interested in later inside (or partial inside) mids, having met with Warner and Dittmar several times apparently, and presumably drafting Anderson somehow, so I'd rather just look towards a KPD or outside/wing prospect (Wilmot (also potential small def/leadership), Chesser) with our 1st pick.

 

[caesar88]

Been watching all the highlight packages as they've been uploaded to Youtube. None impressed me like Sonsie, Chesser & Taylor's did.

 

[RUNVS]

Been watching all the highlight packages as they've been uploaded to Youtube. None impressed me like Sonsie, Chesser & Taylor's did.

Same. I would right now probably go with

1. Sonsie
2. JVR
3. Taylor
4. Chesser

 

[Bloods86]

Been watching all the highlight packages as they've been uploaded to Youtube. None impressed me like Sonsie, Chesser & Taylor's did.

Wilmot's is good considering he's the youngest potential draftee (18 on NYE). He looks to have some dash, class skills, always looking and won't settle for mediocre options, happy to contest a mark or tackle, plus according to Draft Central, his voice can always be heard, potential leadership. Whichever position he settles into (half back, wing, small defender, hybrid mid) I reckon he'd be a value pick. Chesser's was class as well.

 

[Bandicoot]

Yep 100% and whether she on here don't believe it next year is looking a bumper KPP draft. It actually makes sense to go tall then. Now that doesn't mean you don't look at a tall this draft, but it's not going to bother me if we say, you know what we'll add Paddy, and back Melican (not that I rate him) and the other defenders in. We were a kick off a top 6 finish...

We were a kick off a top 4 finish. We would have creamed the rabble of a side Geelong turned out.

 

[anotherletdown]

Wilmot's is good considering he's the youngest potential draftee (18 on NYE). He looks to have some dash, class skills, always looking and won't settle for mediocre options, happy to contest a mark or tackle, plus according to Draft Central, his voice can always be heard, potential leadership. Whichever position he settles into (half back, wing, small defender, hybrid mid) I reckon he'd be a value pick. Chesser's was class as well.

I've been on the Wilmot train for weeks now - I'm a massive fan, if he or Chesser are available at our first pick we have done well.

It's the next picks that eat me up, I can't work out if I want us to trade up/down/load-up or get out. Late, late picks are going to come in about 10 places too.
I feel like the quality in the 20's is bankable but we are just outside that. Conversely, most of the next 30 (30-60) have AFL traits and there could be some seriously good gets late and in the rookie draft, some a-grade flops too. Fejo, Linke, Tunstill, Stretch, Beecken and Harbour could be had very late and they look to have some AFL potential plus it seems like most are asleep when it comes to ranking Hugh Jackson and Connor MacDonald. Cooper Murley, Kade Dittmar and Ned Long are others that should have more love in the mid range too.

Crazy open draft this one.

 

[Wolftone]

You say Sheather is an unknown quantity, then when someone else is generally positive about him, but is uncertain that he'll be a midfield component, they're apparently being negative. He's not even been a consistent cog in reserves midfield, so I don't even know what you're going off on. I think he's developing well, but still a way to go before we talk about him as a solution to senior midfield gaps.

I watched Ronke in the televised reserves games he played. You are overstating his midfield case quite a bit. One game he had a good number of tackles, but played quite a bit up forward. He was well back in the pack of who was demanding seniors selection, but still got picked anyway and wasn't sighted. Personally, based off his form before injuries, and in reserves, and in his senior game, I was ready to delist, not put him into the midfield in seniors. If anything, I'd be playing Stephens or Taylor in senior midfield based on how they went about it in reserves, not Ronke.

Taylor is a reserves player. He played 2 good games for us. That's it. You want to play him? He definitely would have been delisted this year had he not had a contract. Ronke at least has talent if not confidence. Taylor has confidence but no talent. It showed in his one outing this year. Not up to the standard. Since coming to us, Taylor averages 9 disposals in the midfield. That's real class. Ronke is not much better but 8 as a forward is far better than 9 as a mid.

Clarke is another. A pure mid. Well defensive mid. Averages 11. So was George, who averages 18 yet George gets traded out and Clarke is still taking up list space. Next year we might be able to delist Taylor, Clarke and Ronke if his 2022 is shite. I have seen Ronke play mids and he is better than the other two. Taylor gets lots of ball at reserves level but has 45% efficiency. Clarke is even worse but doesn't get it as much.





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[Wolftone]

This bloke
View attachment 1277713

He'd fail the skin test lol

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[Bloods86]

Taylor is a reserves player. He played 2 good games for us. That's it. You want to play him? He definitely would have been delisted this year had he not had a contract. Ronke at least has talent if not confidence. Taylor has confidence but no talent. It showed in his one outing this year. Not up to the standard. Since coming to us, Taylor averages 9 disposals in the midfield. That's real class. Ronke is not much better but 8 as a forward is far better than 9 as a mid.

Clarke is another. A pure mid. Well defensive mid. Averages 11. So was George, who averages 18 yet George gets traded out and Clarke is still taking up list space. Next year we might be able to delist Taylor, Clarke and Ronke if his 2022 is sh*te. I have seen Ronke play mids and he is better than the other two. Taylor gets lots of ball at reserves level but has 45% efficiency. Clarke is even worse but doesn't get it as much.





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I'm basing it off reserves, where the 3 of them were able to try and justify senior selection this year. What Ronke did years ago before falling away and then having injury issues should not be what we select him on now.

In the games they played at reserves level this year, admittedly Taylor and Clarke considerably more, there was no comparison. Taylor and Clarke were stalwarts throughout, amassing touches, appearing all around the park, trying to carry the team. I started the year being ok with never seeing them at senior level again, but their efforts, Taylor in particular, *almost* had me thinking he could come in at a pinch, and at the least, being impressed by their commitment striving away in the VFL. Ronke had a couple of serviceable games, as a forward who went into the midfield a bit. If you think Ronke displayed better form in the midfield, then we aren't in the same reality. He had no business coming into the senior team above others really (though that's not on him), and it showed with his 5 disposal game.

You may want to factor in the games that Clarke and Taylor were sub in your selective stats (or that neither were really ball winning mids first at senior level either), but I'm not really defending their seniors form. What I am saying is that ideally we'd never have to play either at senior level again, but based on this year at reserves level, I'd pick either of them with clear daylight before Ronke.

 

[Wolftone]

Surprised you're not rating Cunningham. He has shut down plenty in the last 2 seasons and is as consistent as. Plus he is a terrific kick. Makes very few mistakes.
Fox is handy rather than outstanding but is decent on all sizes, including smalls. He lost form and made some poor decisions towards the end of the season but was pretty good until then.
COR is a more traditional type mid sizer for sure.
The way our defence sets up I'm not sure that the traditional roles are as important as they were, except on the monsters.
If push came to shove I suspect there are a couple of guys who could convert to handy small defenders if necessary. Not that they SHOULD.
Wicks, Stephens, Sheather all are decent tacklers and quick on their feet.
I wouldn't recruit a small defender for all the tea in China. We just delisted 2.

Harry is a 50/50 kick at best. He is a good defender though. But sometimes I cover my eyes when he kicks

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[Wolftone]

I'm basing it off reserves, where the 3 of them were able to try and justify senior selection this year. What Ronke did years ago before falling away and then having injury issues should not be what we select him on now.

In the games they played at reserves level this year, admittedly Taylor and Clarke considerably more, there was no comparison. Taylor and Clarke were stalwarts throughout, amassing touches, appearing all around the park, trying to carry the team. I started the year being ok with never seeing them at senior level again, but their efforts, Taylor in particular, *almost* had me thinking he could come in at a pinch, and at the least, being impressed by their commitment striving away in the VFL. Ronke had a couple of serviceable games, as a forward who went into the midfield a bit. If you think Ronke displayed better form in the midfield, then we aren't in the same reality. He had no business coming into the senior team above others really (though that's not on him), and it showed with his 5 disposal game.

You may want to factor in the games that Clarke and Taylor were sub in your selective stats (or that neither were really ball winning mids first at senior level either), but I'm not really defending their seniors form. What I am saying is that ideally we'd never have to play either at senior level again, but based on this year at reserves level, I'd pick either of them with clear daylight before Ronke.

Taylor's only game netted 3. Clarke's 3. They are not up to AFL standard. VFL. Players only. Not enough talent at AFL level.

I do not like Ronke as a forward. Never have. One Swallow does not make a Summer. I prefer him to be played where he was drafted. Inside/outside mid. He is not played enough at VFL level in the mids. That is why his figures are far less the the other two list cloggers. They both are shite disposers and have no place on our list. Waste of list space. If Benny does not improve this year him too. But I still think we play him out of position. Why not give him a fair go at the mids? Let's him settle there and see what happens?

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[Bandicoot]

and further on the defender subject ... i have faith gould will make it as an important part of our defence in the next few years

He would want to do it earlier than the next few years. He's only got another 12 months to show something worthy of keeping him.
FWIW - I hope you are right.