List Mgmt. 2021 Trade & List Management Thread II - IN: CCJ

[giantroo]

Spoiler: Lore's 2021 Draft Order

Spoiler: Lore's 2022 Future Picks Draft Order

 

[Kato]

Wonder if we could do future second for Mac and 19, and then Mac for our future second back and we pay a portion of Mac payments…? So virtually 19 for us paying some of Macs payments…


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[GS WARRIORS]

Hopefully it’s for a future third rounder - as a rebuilding side we need more than one top 40 pick in 2022



Dodo is late to the party as has worked out you need to build through the draft.
All those trade weeks he won by trading out first rounders lol

And there is no use trading in players for 1st rounders when you have your own senior players quitting the club at the same time.

 

[RobZombie]

Hopefully it’s for a future third rounder - as a rebuilding side we need more than one top 40 pick in 2022

The idea is that we don’t use both 19 & 20 but let other clubs come calling and turn a profit on it. Geelong desperately need kids. Would they cough up a future 1st if there’s a slider they like? WCE ditto.

Giving up a future 3rd would be great, all hail the Schnoz. But I wouldn’t walk away if it’s a 2nd; it’s still a good trade.

 

[hilly]

Wonder if we could do future second for Mac and 19, and then Mac for our future second back and we pay a portion of Mac payments…? So virtually 19 for us paying some of Macs payments…


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Good thinking but there is a rule around trading back what has been acquired.

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[hilly]

The idea is that we don’t use both 19 & 20 but let other clubs come calling and turn a profit on it. Geelong desperately need kids. Would they cough up a future 1st if there’s a slider they like? WCE ditto.

Giving up a future 3rd would be great, all hail the Schnoz. But I wouldn’t walk away if it’s a 2nd; it’s still a good trade.

Someone mentioned 19, future 3rd and DM for future 2nd which isn't bad.

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[RobZombie]

Someone mentioned 19, future 3rd and DM for future 2nd which isn't bad.

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Would be happy with that.

 

[big_e]

I am sorry, but if you cannot build a list capable of winning at least one final in 6,237 days, then you shouldn't be in the job. You can blame this, that and the other, but not a single final win in 15+ years is laughably bad for a list manager and club*.

Maybe Dodoro is actually good but the coaches are shit.

 

[the big lebowski]

Pies’ plot to solve AFL’s toughest trade dilemma; Bombers reveal top priority: Trade Whispers

Pies’ plot to solve AFL’s toughest trade dilemma; Bombers reveal top priority: Trade Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

so if we can get a few players through that, I think it can add to the three first-rounders we brought in last year.”

Geez this guys a genius. If we draft more players they will be additional players to those drafted last year.

* are in good hands

 

[year of the roo]

Would be happy with that.

Really? Given there will be very little difference between 19 this year and our 2nd next year, our net gain is ~DM + future 3rd? Meh meh meh.

 

[Firebat]

Really? Given there will be very little difference between 19 this year and our 2nd next year, our net gain is ~DM + future 3rd? Meh meh meh.

Agreed. It wouldn't be a good deal if we part with anything other than a future 3rd. Even then, I'd be wanting something else. Picks mean SFA to GCS. They're shedding this salary so they can keep Rankine and Luko. Make them pay accordingly.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Who does he push out? Mahoney or Ford on the forward line? Powell or Phillips in the middle? Horne if we pick him?

He won't replace anyone but will be putting heat on a spot. Beefs up our VFL midfield too.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

He won't replace anyone but will be putting heat on a spot. Beefs up our VFL midfield too.

Exactly. We’re past the time of gifted spots. If he plays he’s earned it.

 

[RobZombie]

Really? Given there will be very little difference between 19 this year and our 2nd next year, our net gain is ~DM + future 3rd? Meh meh meh.

Not at all. 19&20 together gives us lots of room to move in live trading to maximise the value of the picks, especially as a seller. Highly likely someone coughs up a future 1st (probably a club that expects to contend, so they hope a late 1st) or someone coughs up a future 2nd to trade up a few spots (see D Robertson in the 2019 draft, Geelong paid a future 1st for 20 in2020)

 

[DuckYeah]

Alright, so Walshy is OOC next year at Carltank.. how much would he be worth? Can Carlton really afford to pay him his worth and keep their over paid salary cap busting list? Im not interested in him as we have our own Walsh < Horne coming through. But in all honesty, would they be at risk of being unable to afford him? McKay will be asking a decent penny if he continues to rise.. I think they are in a world of trouble with their cap. If they pull it off, I would like to see an investigation!

 

[Conundrum]

Not at all. 19&20 together gives us lots of room to move in live trading to maximise the value of the picks, especially as a seller. Highly likely someone coughs up a future 1st (probably a club that expects to contend, so they hope a late 1st) or someone coughs up a future 2nd to trade up a few spots (see D Robertson in the 2019 draft, Geelong paid a future 1st for 20 in2020)

Sounds like we're compromising on a trade where we have the leverage.

This is what I unserstand of the situation, and what makes me think we should only do the trade with GC for our future 3rd:
- none of the other clubs have 500k room in their salary cap, North is the only club that could take the entirety of macpherson's salary
- GC don't particularly need pick 19 given their already bulging list and need to clear cap space for retaining stars coming out of contract next year and asking for pay raises
- macpherson's best footy was as a mid, and ideally would only be depth at our club, given the need to play our own highly rated youngsters. Even if Horne needs time before playing seniors, we'll have Cunnington, Davies-Uniacke, Simpkin, Thomas, Powell, Phillips, Stephenson jockeying for midfield time

This is why I think its feasible we only offer future 3rd, thus ending up with 19 for potential use in draft night discussions, plus keeping two picks in the top 40 for next year. Given our rebuilding status, i think we'd be retaining picks in 1st and 2nd rounds every year for the short term.

 

[New_Roo]

Not only that, but such a trade says to a young player like Mahoney ....I know we gave you alot of games to develop this year but we actually believe THE ZIEBELL and we think you are crap and we are going to bring in a bloke who cant get a kick at the Gold Coast to take your spot because he played a few good games 3 years ago.

Called competition... currently jmah doesn't have any with sugar now back or tagging


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[year of the roo]

Not at all. 19&20 together gives us lots of room to move in live trading to maximise the value of the picks, especially as a seller. Highly likely someone coughs up a future 1st (probably a club that expects to contend, so they hope a late 1st) or someone coughs up a future 2nd to trade up a few spots (see D Robertson in the 2019 draft, Geelong paid a future 1st for 20 in2020)

My contention isn't that 19&20 is not a good hand. It is that giving up a future 2nd to make it happen is expensive.

I believe that when trading future selections our default assumption needs to be that we will finish in the same position again (the other team we deal with will certainly be taking that belief) and then any further jump up the ladder that we have is simply a bonus and sweetens the deal.

 

[Roopassion]

The whole point of the trade is doing the suns a favour by taking his salary and list spot off their books. Pick 19 for next years second isn’t helping us that much. It’s pretty moving next years second to this year. It has to be for a future 3rd at best, or we gain nothing

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Really? Given there will be very little difference between 19 this year and our 2nd next year, our net gain is ~DM + future 3rd? Meh meh meh.

How is it meh? We're literally gaining heaps on that trade. If we're bottom four, it would effectively be pick 20-24 for 19, a 3rd rounder and MacPherson. How is that anything other than a resounding win, especially if we then manage to flip 19 for something else?

 

[Le Grille]

For the record I don’t particularly rate mid-late second rounders they are more often than not fools gold, if we get a high second late first I’m fine with it

 

[the flying ham]

Who does he push out? Mahoney or Ford on the forward line? Powell or Phillips in the middle? Horne if we pick him?

Probably all of them at some stage. They are only 19 and history suggests that even high draft picks spend time moving between the seniors and reserves. Right now he is an upgrade on Mahoney. There will be plenty of experimenting with the line up over pre season and even early in the season to find the best fit.

 

[Flawed Genius]

He won't replace anyone but will be putting heat on a spot. Beefs up our VFL midfield too.

He's 23 years old and has played 57 games. He's another one who's right in the slot for experience to come along with the group.

A Northern Knights boy too so would probably appreciate coming home

 

[Jasemon]

Called competition... currently jmah doesn't have any with sugar now back or tagging


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Agreed. I'm fairly sure that in Nobes' interview earlier in the week that he identified pressure forwards as an identified major list need. The club is clearly a fan of Mahoney however it is not silly to think it doesn't need to bolster this up with a number of players competing for spots at any one time.

For all we know the club had identified McPherson a long way out, and perhaps Noble made these comments with the obvious inside knowledge that this trade of pics and player was on the cards. I still wouldn't preclude the club making a play for Rachelle if he was somehow available (not that I think he will be).

 

[Le Grille]

He's 23 years old and has played 57 games. He's another one who's right in the slot for experience to come along with the group.

A Northern Knights boy too so would probably appreciate coming home

Frankly if he provides competition for spots that’s fine

 

[Conundrum]

How is it meh? We're literally gaining heaps on that trade. If we're bottom four, it would effectively be pick 20-24 for 19, a 3rd rounder and MacPherson. How is that anything other than a resounding win, especially if we then manage to flip 19 for something else?

If the reports are correct that macpherson is on 500k, thats the downside we are taking on. Clearly GC don't think he's worth that anymore, and I would agree based on more than one year of evidence. Trade using future 2nd looks a slight win, we could use the situation to our advantage to pay less, using future 3rd. I don't think there are other clubs that could offer them the whole salary dump, so i think we don't need to compromise to beat other bidders.