List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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StCicatriz said:
out of all the issues we have had in recruitment, the Allen selection is such a minor issue. now it might be a symptom of a bigger issue here, which i am all ears to, but to single out this one draft selection and get so hung up on it, whilst ignoring everything else that has occurred is a bit unusual. it's like sitting in a burning house and complaining that someone burnt the toast!

on paper it's a late first round selection, but the problem is because of the inevitable explosion of the NGAs (something i had warned would happen for years and years) that end of first round pick, turned into pick 26!!!! people are more worked about this pick 26 than picks:

2012 Pick 12
2012 Pick 13
2014 Pick 1
2013 Pick 3
2013 Pick 18
2013 Pick 19
2016 Pick 10 -> 2017 Pick 7
2017 Pick 8
2019 Pick 6 -> 2019 Pick 12 & 18 -> 2019 Pick 10

that's a serious amount of round 1 selections where you should be getting a pretty decent return. some of those selections you should be hitting a decent midfielder in a dark room.

2012: Corr (14), Grundy (18)
2013: Bont (4), Sheed (11), Cripps (13)
2014: Petracca (2), Brayshaw (3), De Goey (5)
2016: Florent (11), Simpkin (12), Berry (17), SPP (18)
2017: Naughton (9, i remember getting laughed at for suggesting he should be a consideration), Tim Kelly (24), Liam Ryan (26 another one i was laughed at about), Taylor (28)
2019: Serong (Pick 8), Pickett (Pick 12), Weightman (Pick 15), Georgiades (Pick 18)

then you couple in the trade decisions 800k 5 year deal to Hanners who already had significant injury concerns with no real protection for the club if it went belly up after 2 seasons. the overs trading for Hill an outside player who was never going to address the issues inside. then you look at the players we did have, sending the contracted Bruce and Acres out for the cheap. Burning Goddard and McEvoy for picks only to completely blow em.

we are just churning too many chances here.

if you want to draw a line in the sand on Melbourne which the entire football industry regarded as dysfunctional and a recurring joke, the moment they started to turn the corner was the moment they stopped blowing picks. they got their football dept in order well before goodwin had any kind of system people might hard on about during match day. they went from torching picks and trades to just getting it consistently right.

remember when Brisbane couldn't retain players and people thought they were a joke... yeah they started to nail trading and drafting again!!!

how about the dogs, remember when we were always a walk up start to just be better than them. they got to a flag because they just nailed their picks. then they've continued to nail them. so much so that you hit a point where Sydney after a decade plus of playing nothing but money ball did a complete 180 and identified they needed to build through the draft. who do they go get, the dogs head recruiter. people think sydney should be spending a good 4-5 years down the bottom of the ladder and BANG! they're already back off the back of some good drafting.

we sit here in 2021 after kicking off a rebuild back in 2011 and then a fully-fledged rebuild in 2013 (that was when pelchen was running supporter info sessions explaining what they were on the path to doing) and we are still bemoaning at the lack of quality on the midfield. during the first iteration Gringo was highlighting that the recruitment wasn't that great. i remember him absolutely copping it, i was one who used to argue against his view. then in 2018 I'm getting a call from someone in the club outlining why Trout wasn't any good. some of the basics of the rebuild that were communicated to members were not even implemented (i.e. we have too many bad kicks in 2018 vs the we will draft only good kicks in 2013).

then you get to the list demographic, like you rightfully pointed out and surprise surprise there are not enough players under the age of 21.

what if the same delusions we had on Ameet & Trout are still there in 2021, it's just that the names have changed!!!!

at the end of the day the calls like Hill are recruitment decisions, because they happen it doesn't suddenly absolve the recruiters from any responsibility because they didn't go to the draft.

there's also the small matter that any large contracts like Hanners & Hill have to be ticked off by a list committee and then the president himself. something Summers informed supporters has to happen for deals above x $ valye. unless that somehow changed under bassat.
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The fact that we have made plenty of other mistakes before the Allison decision doesn't make it any less of a poor decision.

We all know now our drafting in the Trout era was poor. Would you prefer we keep going over that?
 
bird_man said:
The fact that we have made plenty of other mistakes before the Allison decision doesn't make it any less of a poor decision.

We all know now our drafting in the Trout era was poor. Would you prefer we keep going over that?
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Surely it's too early to judge the Allison decision?
 

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Plugger_87 said:
I remember you posting on McCartin prior to us drafting him as a 17 year old thinking you were wrong. Now i look back and you were absolutely spot on.
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that one was the single most frustrating things over the last 10 years. trying to defend that selection is like trying to sell water to a drowning man.

it's just so unbelievably wrong
 
saintsmania said:
That is one worrying stat..maybe show it to the club CEO so investment can be made in our recruiting..
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While I was off the forum I sent Bassat a letter begging them to put more money into positions inside the footy department and especially recruiting and list management. I haven't heard back yet, hopefully he reads it and thinks about it. If you were to tear a club back to the basics needed to operate they are the most important roles. Coaches can't perform magic with ordinary lists. Development next.
 
bird_man said:
Surely I'm not the only one that would find this really strange list management?

So we used a good draft pick last year to bring in a lead up forward?

Then 12 months later we will look to trade out a lead up forward (with 4 years development) for a good draft pick?

So we would have traded out Bruce and Battle in thr space of 3 years. But we needed to use a good draft pick on a lead up forward last year...
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I said it was unlikely.

it also depends on what gags etc think of Battle is the currency better then the actual player?
 
stavro#4 said:
I know and knew people at different levels of the club.
I had a few mates in the Richo era that were players.
I still get info. But it’s not like it was where I could shoot a text and get the inside story. Now it’s more sporadic/inconsistent catch ups etc.


the Battle suggestion is because I’ve heard frustrations from both parties. Battle wants more of a genuine role - however he plays week in and out and his form has let him down this year.

club is trying to build a list - however they know they are short picks going forward to do what they need and want to do. They are confident they might have a hit up forward if needed on the list (they have drafted 2 in 6 months). This is less likely then likely. But it’s there

Billings - I’m hearing we are comfortably apart on finances during initial talks and he has suitors across the league. This makes the most sense and he really isn’t a key component to us winning or losing. He is a fantastic player to have when you have 4-5 stars and he can do what he wants with minimal attention. He won’t be a better player elsewhere but he will impact games more so - hopefully that makes sense.

ive seen the canary post above. If we go into next year with the same group back and all we add is a first rounder. We are deluded.

Secondly I’ve heard Frawley might be kept on. But that we are looking at the very fringes of the Suns and giants to fill out our list next year. Don’t mind this, would love to try get our hands on Brodie for dirt cheap.

lastly Hanners and the club are talking. There was a minor set back in the last week. Personal opinion. I think he is done and it’s his last year.
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I was keen on Brodie the last couple of years, I would be happy with him and Fiorini on the cheap. Fiorini looked on his way to elite, their kids pushed him out. Brodie very harshly treated by Chubs Dew.
 
StCicatriz said:
because he's done 1 pre-season and not even played half a season of footy
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lewdogs said:
He is in his first year and has played about 4 VFL games.
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Obviously you skipped past my posts where I've said it's not just the fact that Allison is struggling in the VFL. We all know project talls take time.

It's the fact we have a B grade midfield and have chosen not to invest in this area with good draft picks.

No one here expected us to take a tall with that pick on draft night so we don't have to pretend we are all happy about it now.

The fact people are already discussing trading Battle shows we have more desperate needs right now.
 
bird_man said:
Obviously you skipped past my posts where I've said it's not just the fact that Allison is struggling in the VFL. We all know project talls take time.

It's the fact we have a B grade midfield and have chosen not to invest in this area with good draft picks.

No one here expected us to take a tall with that pick on draft night so we don't have to pretend we are all happy about it now.

The fact people are already discussing trading Battle shows we have more desperate needs right now.
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Our scoring suggests we also have a B grade forward line.
 
lewdogs said:
Our scoring suggests we also have a B grade forward line.
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You cant tell me a quality midfield doesnt help with scoring?

We have invested heavily in our forward line. King, Higgins, Battle, all 22 or younger.

Who are the young mids coming through? Clark gets played on a back flank.

Bytel and Byrnes were both fairly late selections.
 
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bird_man said:
I think Battle would likely get us a pick similar to the one we used on Allison.

This is why I'd see it as a strange move.
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He wouldn’t get us a top 10 in my personal opinion.
But mid teens is possible.
anyway, let’s see how it plays out.

I still believe the clubs entire off season strategy of hitting the draft centres around Billings.
 
Saintbloke said:
Wouldn't mind knowing our contested mark stats in the forward line compared he rest of the comp. I get the impression that generally we are not a strong contested marking team..might be wrong
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I reckon our intercept mark is among the worst in the league and I haven’t even looked at numbers.
This is one area I wish we could improve on 10000%
 
bird_man said:
You cant tell me a quality midfield doesnt help with scoring?

We have invested heavily in our forward line. King, Higgins, Battle, all 22 or younger.

Who are the young mids coming through? Clark gets played on a back flank.

Bytel and Byrnes were both fairly late selections.
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If Allison becomes a player it won't matter. Any draft pick that becomes a good player is a good pick.

If we are going to improve our midfield we need elite talent in there.
 
stavro#4 said:
He wouldn’t get us a top 10 in my personal opinion.
But mid teens is possible.
anyway, let’s see how it plays out.

I still believe the clubs entire off season strategy of hitting the draft centres around Billings.
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Does anyone actually believe Billings would get us band 1 compo?

Sounds just like all the Adelaide fans everyone laughed at last year.
 
Go through our list pick players who you think are good enough to play in a genuine finals side, pick them only is their best position or on the bench.

Imo with everyone fit we’re actually not a bad side but the lack of A grade talent is obvious as are the positions we need to target this off season.

Ratts desire to play two rucks complicates things and makes me wonder why the hell we want Ming especially at his projected price but for this exercise pretend we do. I found this an interesting exercise some positions we have real depth others are thread bare, don’t forget if you think Gresham is a forward pocket then that’s where he goes. This isn’t a best 22 if you don‘t think we have a player up to the required level leave it blank.

Very interesting who’s left over that I’d like to keep as depth and who probably needs to be cut. Might also make some decisions at trade time make sense and a little less painful.
 
BrutThough said:
Does anyone actually believe Billings would get us band 1 compo?

Sounds just like all the Adelaide fans everyone laughed at last year.
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I do.

His agent thinks of him as a player worthy of a contract of one.
If he comes down to our level re-sign him.
 
lewdogs said:
If Allison becomes a player it won't matter. Any draft pick that becomes a good player is a good pick.

If we are going to improve our midfield we need elite talent in there.
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Unfortunately history suggests it's very tough to find elite mids outside the top 40 of the draft so until we start using those picks on mids it's going to he difficult.
 
BrutThough said:
Does anyone actually believe Billings would get us band 1 compo?

Sounds just like all the Adelaide fans everyone laughed at last year.
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We need to be very careful we don’t end up just like Adelaide, I’m not trading him if the pick isn’t straight after our first.

Seriously deluded if we think a pick in the twenties is adequate compensation for billings. Maybe if he was played as a half forward where imo he’s good for 30 goals a season and still finds plenty of the ball we wouldn’t be talking of trading him.

membrey king Gresham

billings Marshall Higgins

That looks like a very good forward line to me, all three smalls actually find plenty of the ball as forwards which is very dangerous.
 
stavro#4 said:
I do.

His agent thinks of him as a player worthy of a contract of one.
If he comes down to our level re-sign him.
Click to expand...
Thats similar to what Crouch's manager thought of him until no club seriously offered him a contract worthy of that compensation.

I just don't see any Vic club giving the type of money to trigger band 1. And then at that point, we would be letting him go for less than he is worth to us on field.
 
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