List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
StCicatriz said:
because he's done 1 pre-season and not even played half a season of footy
Click to expand...
It was a bizarre pick at the time. That's why it's being judged.
That doesn't change the fact that we have one very similar lead up forward unable to find a consistent role in the team.
And imo they want Allison to be a tall winger like they've been hell bent on trying to make Battle.
Now theyve gone and gotten another similar type in cooper in the mid season draft.
Meanwhile a ready to go tall goalkicking midfielder was available at our pick and now he's playing well for Collingwood.

Our history of developing players doesn't help Allison's outlook either.
 
Saintbloke said:
Wouldn't mind knowing our contested mark stats in the forward line compared he rest of the comp. I get the impression that generally we are not a strong contested marking team..might be wrong
Click to expand...
Not sure about overall but we have 2 forwards in the top 15 in the comp (King and Membrey) which suggests it isn't too bad.

That's without Marshall for most of the year also who is currently 36th with just 5 games.
 
Key Defenders // Howard, Clavarino, Joyce, Frawley ( Maybe ) // Carlisle -Back.
Medium Backs // Coffield, Webster , Highmore// Roberton - Retired.
Small Backs // Hill, Long, Sinclair // Paton -Leg fracture. Geary -Shoulder McKenzie-Calf Connelly-Shin
Mids // Crouch, Dunstan, Hill, Steele ,Billings, Bytel, Byrnes, Clark ( should be rested but wont be)
//Gresham- Achilles ,Jones-Quad, Ross-Personal Leave. Hanneberry-Broken
Rucks // Ryder. Hunter, Heath // Marshall -Foot
Tall Forwards //Battle, Sharman // King -Back. McKernan - Toe
Med Forwards // Allison, // Wood- Hamstring, Membrey- Personal leave
Small Forwards // Lonie, Butler , Higgins, //Kent - concussion?

Available - 27.

Without Green/new players, and injured Clark. ( Heath,Sharman, Allison) 23

Webster, Frawley , Wilkie
Coffield, Clavarino , Long
Sinclair, Dunstan, Byrnes,
Battle, Butler, Howard(ruck)
Lonie, Joyce , Higgins

F: Ryder , Crouch, Steele

Bench : Bytel. Hill Billings Highmore.

E: Hunter , Clark
----------------

The AFL would have no sympathy because :
a) StKilda chose to leave spaces open on their list.
b) The set up the mid-season draft so clubs wouldn't run short of players.
 

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StCicatriz said:
because he's done 1 pre-season and not even played half a season of footy
Click to expand...


To me he's a too soon to write off but he was still a poor decision. He wasn't a need and he wasn't an outstanding candidate. My Mate who's a draft nut said he was a confusing choice too. He said his stocks rose off the back of one pre draft scratch match where he stood out for his run and a couple of preseason games where his height and production had gone up. Before that he averaged 8.2 disposals and kicked 2 goals for his under 17 year as a forward and was projected as a late pick/rookie. He was meant to be an outstanding athletic prospect though.

Poulter was the obvious choice and the one most people thought would be gone by our pick, he fell in our laps and we went speculative instead. Poulter was playing SANFL and holding his own, he had exposed form and looked like a potential star without having to guess. I just don't get what they were thinking at all even if Allison ends up a star. It's like taking your whole pay-check to the casino risking your kids not eating for a fortnight, if it happens to win it doesn't make it a sensible decision.

Allison's draft notes mentions that he's high potential but mentions how raw, speculative and far off he is. Poulter walked into SANFL gathers 35 and a goal in his first game, backs up with 29 and 2 goals. Allison didn't make the rep squads and averaged 8.2 disposals and kicked 2 for a season. Just hard to fathom.
 
lewdogs said:
Our scoring suggests we also have a B grade forward line.
Click to expand...


We have a tall forward that should be a star if we develop him right. Small forwards are a real issue if we plan on playing a mosquito fleet. We really need a more damaging type rather than Lonie and Butler who are both too similar and both having shocking years. Last year Butler looked AA quality, this year it's hard to justify playing him most weeks.

Snags is our Papley but he's doing all the heavy lifting for the forwards. King would have been better off with a Bruce type to protect him and take the heat. For some reason we play Membrey further from goal which means he's spent when kicking and we seemed to plan on resting a ruck to protect king which has been scuttled by injury.

To me a Kosi Pickett type like Hill's little cousin at GWS would be ideal if Ratts want his smalls at the fall plan. Members closer to goal or replace him with Battle and play Tim on the wing etc. Not developing Battle in atet spot is a weird choice especially as it seems to be a key position role or bust for him.

I can't think of any side that needs multiple mid sized lead up forwards and considering we play the ones we have out of position it makes even less sense. Targeting a tall back makes more sense to me.
 
saintsmania said:
Fiorini looked a star on the rise couple of years ago..will come dirt cheap like 2m Peter..
Click to expand...


Their cap is as tight as a fish's orifice, he'd be pretty easy to shake loose. Same with GWS that's why we are digging in their bins.
 
Yawkey way said:
We need to be very careful we don’t end up just like Adelaide, I’m not trading him if the pick isn’t straight after our first.

Seriously deluded if we think a pick in the twenties is adequate compensation for billings. Maybe if he was played as a half forward where imo he’s good for 30 goals a season and still finds plenty of the ball we wouldn’t be talking of trading him.

membrey king Gresham

billings Marshall Higgins

That looks like a very good forward line to me, all three smalls actually find plenty of the ball as forwards which is very dangerous.
Click to expand...

I was all for Billings playing forward as well but he’s just too slow to play him as a small. He almost needs to play as the third tall which is never going to happen under Ratts.
 
hayes said:
I was all for Billings playing forward as well but he’s just too slow to play him as a small. He almost needs to play as the third tall which is never going to happen under Ratts.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t too slow when he kicked 23 - 37 and averaged over 20 possessions in 2017.
 
bird_man said:
Watching Caleb Poulter playing bloody good footy makes my blood boil.

Absolute balls up!
Click to expand...
I for one can’t wait for the Poulter vs Alison arguments in five years time when Poulter wins a flag for the pies and Alison has been delisted at the end of 2022.

Well Done St Kilda Recruiters!!! :thumbsu:
 
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gringo2011 said:
We have a tall forward that should be a star if we develop him right. Small forwards are a real issue if we plan on playing a mosquito fleet. We really need a more damaging type rather than Lonie and Butler who are both too similar and both having shocking years. Last year Butler looked AA quality, this year it's hard to justify playing him most weeks.

Snags is our Papley but he's doing all the heavy lifting for the forwards. King would have been better off with a Bruce type to protect him and take the heat. For some reason we play Membrey further from goal which means he's spent when kicking and we seemed to plan on resting a ruck to protect king which has been scuttled by injury.

To me a Kosi Pickett type like Hill's little cousin at GWS would be ideal if Ratts want his smalls at the fall plan. Members closer to goal or replace him with Battle and play Tim on the wing etc. Not developing Battle in atet spot is a weird choice especially as it seems to be a key position role or bust for him.

I can't think of any side that needs multiple mid sized lead up forwards and considering we play the ones we have out of position it makes even less sense. Targeting a tall back makes more sense to me.
Click to expand...
Desperately need a key back, a ruck upgrade on hunter and of course mids.
 
Yawkey way said:
Wasn’t too slow when he kicked 23 - 37 and averaged over 20 possessions in 2017.
Click to expand...
That year was basically when he played as a third tall. We had Bruce and Membrey as the talls and Riewoldt played on the wing. He can obviously play forward well but not with the way Ratten wants his forward line. Makes us painfully slow where you can’t afford to be.
 

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bird_man said:
Obviously you skipped past my posts where I've said it's not just the fact that Allison is struggling in the VFL. We all know project talls take time.

It's the fact we have a B grade midfield and have chosen not to invest in this area with good draft picks.

No one here expected us to take a tall with that pick on draft night so we don't have to pretend we are all happy about it now.

The fact people are already discussing trading Battle shows we have more desperate needs right now.
Click to expand...
Agree what is our aversion to drafting mids with Speed
 
Browny2Carlisle said:
It was a bizarre pick at the time. That's why it's being judged.
That doesn't change the fact that we have one very similar lead up forward unable to find a consistent role in the team.
And imo they want Allison to be a tall winger like they've been hell bent on trying to make Battle.
Now theyve gone and gotten another similar type in cooper in the mid season draft.
Meanwhile a ready to go tall goalkicking midfielder was available at our pick and now he's playing well for Collingwood.

Our history of developing players doesn't help Allison's outlook either.
Click to expand...
That is my biggest concern the development of our youngsters Clark is not a "young gun"he has stagnated Coff the same Battle ,Long-Max atm who is the forward coach helping him to position himself?use his speed and leap to run at the ball-he has no clue on how to use his body in a marking contest-its all about who you let go, who you bring in and the development of your youngsters-
 
stavro#4 said:
I reckon our intercept mark is among the worst in the league and I haven’t even looked at numbers.
This is one area I wish we could improve on 10000%
Click to expand...

Agreed. Our poor intercepts are a reflection of a number of factors with our inconsistent pressure being one. In regard to pressure around the ball generally, we must be one of the worst teams for tackle completion. I can't support it with numbers but I feel like we have teams break ours too often. There are a few boys that hit them and stick them, but not many. We seem to have developed some really flimsy tacklers. I know Slater was helping out a few years back. Don't know what happened to him. If we fix that up and our consistency of effort, it'll go a ways to helping intercept numbers.
 
stavro#4 said:
I know and knew people at different levels of the club.
I had a few mates in the Richo era that were players.
I still get info. But it’s not like it was where I could shoot a text and get the inside story. Now it’s more sporadic/inconsistent catch ups etc.


the Battle suggestion is because I’ve heard frustrations from both parties. Battle wants more of a genuine role - however he plays week in and out and his form has let him down this year.

club is trying to build a list - however they know they are short picks going forward to do what they need and want to do. They are confident they might have a hit up forward if needed on the list (they have drafted 2 in 6 months). This is less likely then likely. But it’s there

Billings - I’m hearing we are comfortably apart on finances during initial talks and he has suitors across the league. This makes the most sense and he really isn’t a key component to us winning or losing. He is a fantastic player to have when you have 4-5 stars and he can do what he wants with minimal attention. He won’t be a better player elsewhere but he will impact games more so - hopefully that makes sense.

ive seen the canary post above. If we go into next year with the same group back and all we add is a first rounder. We are deluded.

Secondly I’ve heard Frawley might be kept on. But that we are looking at the very fringes of the Suns and giants to fill out our list next year. Don’t mind this, would love to try get our hands on Brodie for dirt cheap.

lastly Hanners and the club are talking. There was a minor set back in the last week. Personal opinion. I think he is done and it’s his last year.
Click to expand...

No idea why we would keep Frawley another year. I think he's pretty much done now. Would hope it's not at the expense of Joyce.
I hope Hanners has the good grace to change his deal, because in all honesty it's been a complete flop, albeit through no fault of his own. But if, as we think, it was front ended then he's done pretty well.
 
Diehard Saint said:
No idea why we would keep Frawley another year. I think he's pretty much done now. Would hope it's not at the expense of Joyce.
I hope Hanners has the good grace to change his deal, because in all honesty it's been a complete flop, albeit through no fault of his own. But if, as we think, it was front ended then he's done pretty well.
Click to expand...
I think you missed where I was going with Hanners. I don’t think he will be at the club in 2022.
Frawley will depend on depth of our KPD. However go watch what dougal says in the Frawley debut video.
 
bird_man said:
The fact that we have made plenty of other mistakes before the Allison decision doesn't make it any less of a poor decision.

We all know now our drafting in the Trout era was poor. Would you prefer we keep going over that?
Click to expand...

did we know it back then? i didn't, i just trusted them until pretty late. i remember defending it against Gringo and trying to support posters like ARR. around 2017 i started to really question it and thought we need a re-alignment of the list, a mk2 on the build. not a complete rebuild but a mini one almost. you pretty much called it LOL worthy and throughout that year had the opinion that the list management was good.

the problem i have is that it wasn't just Trout and Ameet. sure they're long gone! but some of that recruitment team were present during that period. i think you're starting to pick up similarities between the two if i am being perfectly honest. anyways i digress...

so we get to last year. i start to get an uneasy feeling around the drafting. you dismissed my point entirely around libba and said that given i didn't even have the right date he was made head recruiter (despite the transition bleeding across) i should be the last person to listen to. you then said it was far too early to call any issues on the drafting of players.

so we get to now and suddenly you have big issues with areas of the recruitment because of the age demographic, the mix of selections and the Allison selection. like what happened to it being too soon? and i thought it was all good?

so do you have problem with the recruitment or not, because this is starting to feel like history repeating!

i actually agree with the points you had made in the last month. i think you have made excellent observations in terms of the age demographics and the make up of the list, particularly around the selections of midfield talent. which previously had not been covered.

I'm just confused as to if you see a genuine problem with recruitment or not?
 
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StCicatriz said:
did we know it back then? i didn't, i just trusted them until pretty late. i remember defending it against Gringo and trying to support posters like ARR. around 2017 i started to really question it and thought we need a re-alignment of the list, a mk2 on the build. not a complete rebuild but a mini one almost. you pretty much called it LOL worthy and throughout that year had the opinion that the list management was good.

the problem i have is that it wasn't just Trout and Ameet. sure they're long gone! but some of that recruitment team were present during that period. i think you're starting to pick up similarities between the two if i am being perfectly honest. anyways i digress...

so we get to last year. i start to get an uneasy feeling around the drafting. you dismissed my point entirely around libba and said that given i didn't even have the right date he was made head recruiter (despite the transition bleeding across) i should be the last person to listen to.

so we get to now and suddenly you have big issues with areas of the recruitment because of the age demographic, the mix of selections and the Allison selection.

so do you have problem with the recruitment or not, because this is starting to feel like history repeating!

i actually agree with the points you had made in the last month. i think you have made excellent observations in terms of the age demographics and the make up of the list, particularly around the selections of midfield talent. which previously had not been covered.

I'm just confused as to if you see a genuine problem with recruitment or not?
Click to expand...
What’s wrong with the age demographic of the list?
 
Browny2Carlisle said:
It was a bizarre pick at the time. That's why it's being judged.
That doesn't change the fact that we have one very similar lead up forward unable to find a consistent role in the team.
And imo they want Allison to be a tall winger like they've been hell bent on trying to make Battle.
Now theyve gone and gotten another similar type in cooper in the mid season draft.
Meanwhile a ready to go tall goalkicking midfielder was available at our pick and now he's playing well for Collingwood.

Our history of developing players doesn't help Allison's outlook either.
Click to expand...

I'm not wedded to the alison pick. the only thing i was strong on was:
1) it was a best available in the eyes of the recruiters selection, rather than a selection based on positional need,
2) he needs time. i think bird_man has nailed it when he describes him as a project tall.

i didn't find it as confusing but tbh i didn't feel as strongly about that draft.

i have found other selections massively concerning. for example the last one i went WTF to in a big way was Ben Long. i was shocked. i didn't understand it. but once the call was made i tried to get my head around it and then accepted he needed time to prove them wrong or right.

i think allison is in the same boat as that Long selection for a lot of people. i can understand that.

the thing i don't get is how it seems to be gaining a lot of traction, when there are much larger mistakes IMO. which i had written up in that post.

i think the bigger issues is the churning of first round draft selections tbh and some of the trade decisions
 
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