List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

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Aug 17, 2015
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Delisted;
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Traded;
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Retired;
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To see the full playing list list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – Monday November 15

List Lodgement 1
Friday October 29

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday November 3 - Tuesday November 9

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Wednesday November 10

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Thursday November 11 - Monday November 15

AFL Pre-Season Commences (First to fourth year players)
Monday November 22

National Draft
Round 1: Wednesday November 24 (7pm)
Round 2 – completion: Thursday November 25 (7pm - late)

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
Friday November 26 (3.20pm)

Final List Lodgement
Monday November 29

Pre-Season Commences (All other players)
Monday 6 December

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
December - March (tbc)

Pre-Season Christmas Break
Sunday 19 December - Sunday 9 January
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Premium said:
Gringo , Pettracca has only come good the last 2 years , Dustin Martin also took time to become the star he is to day - no one can predict the future and with our young squad who knows we might have a couple gems - time will tell but you have to have faith in the players we have.
The development under Ratten has been better than past years just looking at the kids we have playing.
Max King looks to be a once in a lifetime player and at only 21 and players like Clark , Coffield , Higgins , Sharman , Highmore , Connolly , Byrne , Bytel any of them could be standouts in the future.
You only have to see the improvement of Sinclair , McKenzie and even Dunstan to see we are now getting the most out of some of the players.
We always seem to find excuses but we did have some , Marshall to me is one of our best players and having him only playing half a season and really effected our team , Clark was in the same boat with Jones , Gresham , Paton.

Our team is laced with highly talented players and our forward line to me would have to have the potential to be the best in the league.

Having class small forwards in Butler , Higgins , Billings , Gresham and marking players in King , Membery and now Sharman just shows how strong we are.
Our midfield let us down last year having to rely on Steele and Crouch to do just about all the work and hopefully with a fit Marshall , Jones , Clark and Gresham it should fix the problem.

We all know we had a shocking year with many of our players well off there best like Billings ,Hill , Membery , Butler and with the injuries of Marshall and co , we never hit the heights we expected - but you can count this will not happen next year - we missed finals by one game after having a truly bad year with only a couple players performing.

We still have a long way to go to prove we can win a flag but if we can get it together with this squad and a few added young players this draft period we could be in for a great few years.
Click to expand...


You can only hope. Petracca was like Steele he was a good but not great player but even when he wasn't great he showed glimpses. I think you've listed most of the guys where improvement is likely to come from.

King does look on his way to being special but we need half a dozen to step up to a much higher level. Carlton had a Coleman medalist and a top 5 mid and went nowhere. You need the level below to step up and the bottom rungs to move into their positions.
 
moirae42 said:
Almost every player in our best 22 are nowhere near their ceiling. Even Steele.
Click to expand...


Ceilings are hard to gauge until it happens. We thought Richo had a premiership list on potential. Jack Billings is your classic example of a player who looked like his break out was imminent. He's probably got 4 years left and still a GOP. Guys often struggle to take the next step and only a handful will step up to A grade.
 
We need who we regard as the bottom 6 on the list, to step up and play consistent footy- they don't have to star, but need to work hard. Once we get consistent performances across all lines on the field, then we don't get those dumb blowout losses, or unexpected losses that killed this season for us.
 

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gringo2011 said:
You can only hope. Petracca was like Steele he was a good but not great player but even when he wasn't great he showed glimpses. I think you've listed most of the guys where improvement is likely to come from.

King does look on his way to being special but we need half a dozen to step up to a much higher level. Carlton had a Coleman medalist and a top 5 mid and went nowhere. You need the level below to step up and the bottom rungs to move into their positions.
Click to expand...
Nobody really gets both (a genuine bonafide star and a spread of 10ish A grade players) so I doubt we get both).

It looks as though we’re going the spread route which is probably the healthier option. There’s only a handful of guys like Dusty and Trac and even if you manage to find one you are screwed if they are down on output or get injured.

The optimism for this year for me comes from what Premium said, we had a horrible 2021 (injuries, form, availalability) and we still almost made finals.

I’m usually accused of being the negative one around here and if we have a bunch of bad injuries come March I’ll be right back to being convinced we’ve angered the footy gods again but right now, things look as good as they have for 10ish years
 
mad-saint-guy said:
Rather than doing my job, I feel like procrastinating so here's my take on the state of the list pre-draft

Best 22

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Billings
HF: Gresham, Marshall, Higgins
F: Butler, King, Membrey

Foll: Ryder, Crouch, Jones
Int: Clark, Ross, Sharman, Webster


Reserves

B: Geary, Joyce, ***
HB: Connolly, Highmore, Long
C: McKenzie, Hannebery, ***
HF: Kent, Wood, ***
F: Heath, Allison, ***

Foll: Campbell, Byrnes, Bytel



This says to me that our best 22 is in pretty good shape although we may need to find a better CHB option depending on how Battle goes in that role. I imagine we'll be looking for some skillful outside mids/small forwards in the draft and we could definitely use another genuine gun midfielder. It wouldn't surprise me if we grabbed another ruck/forward as well. With a good pre season, soft fixture and a decent run with injuries we should be pushing the top 6 and could even give the top 4 a shake if some guys like Clark and Coffield come into their own. If we have injuries to key players like Ryder/Howard/Marshall/Steele and stuff up another pre season then we could absolutely end up bottom 4.
Click to expand...
Inject Windy, Owens and whoever we get at pick 11 to that reserves side and we’re unbeaten
 
phantom13 said:
Nobody really gets both (a genuine bonafide star and a spread of 10ish A grade players) so I doubt we get both).

It looks as though we’re going the spread route which is probably the healthier option. There’s only a handful of guys like Dusty and Trac and even if you manage to find one you are screwed if they are down on output or get injured.

The optimism for this year for me comes from what Premium said, we had a horrible 2021 (injuries, form, availalability) and we still almost made finals.

I’m usually accused of being the negative one around here and if we have a bunch of bad injuries come March I’ll be right back to being convinced we’ve angered the footy gods again but right now, things look as good as they have for 10ish years
Click to expand...


That's how I see Port, no really high impact stars. Wines is in the Steele style of player. You know what you get but he's not picking his team up on his back and running through the battlefield dodging bullets. Even when we got close in 2010 it was because a couple of guys in Lenny and BJ decided that it was time to go bang. Dusty single handedly broke open a couple of premierships and plenty of their finals were won through his personal impact.

The Dogs are probably the only side to win one without a bona fide high impact star yet...some of those kids went on to become that though. WCE eagles had Kennedy but probably lacked the impact player though too.

Hopefully King can step up and we can get a few more spread the load at least. At the moment a few years of playing finals without winning much sounds alright compared to starting again. If we miss finals again next year it could get ugly, you then have to make the call to double down or rebuild around King.
 
gringo2011 said:
You can only hope. Petracca was like Steele he was a good but not great player but even when he wasn't great he showed glimpses. I think you've listed most of the guys where improvement is likely to come from.

King does look on his way to being special but we need half a dozen to step up to a much higher level. Carlton had a Coleman medalist and a top 5 mid and went nowhere. You need the level below to step up and the bottom rungs to move into their positions.
Click to expand...
Carlton has to be a coaching issue. Walsh + Mckay should win a decent amount of games.
 
gringo2011 said:
That's how I see Port, no really high impact stars. Wines is in the Steele style of player. You know what you get but he's not picking his team up on his back and running through the battlefield dodging bullets. Even when we got close in 2010 it was because a couple of guys in Lenny and BJ decided that it was time to go bang. Dusty single handedly broke open a couple of premierships and plenty of their finals were won through his personal impact.

The Dogs are probably the only side to win one without a bona fide high impact star yet...some of those kids went on to become that though. WCE eagles had Kennedy but probably lacked the impact player though too.

Hopefully King can step up and we can get a few more spread the load at least. At the moment a few years of playing finals without winning much sounds alright compared to starting again. If we miss finals again next year it could get ugly, you then have to make the call to double down or rebuild around King.
Click to expand...
If we miss again this year yeh… Jesus that will be bad.

I suppose we can hope a king or Clark turns into Dusty or Trac but there’s just not many of them around.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
Carlton has to be a coaching issue. Walsh + Mckay should win a decent amount of games.
Click to expand...


Their tier down is always an issue too. They have a better top end but ordinary bottom end. We have a pretty even set up with no weak links but lack top talent.
 
Saintbloke said:
We need who we regard as the bottom 6 on the list, to step up and play consistent footy- they don't have to star, but need to work hard. Once we get consistent performances across all lines on the field, then we don't get those dumb blowout losses, or unexpected losses that killed this season for us.
Click to expand...

ummm we just delisted the bottom 6 on the list.
We'd hope the bottom 6 don't get a game, so they shouldn't affect the performances.
( Actually our current bottom 6 is as good as its been for a long time - Allison and Heath the only ones who haven't played a game and there is really no "cringe" if any of them have to play ).
 
gringo2011 said:
That's how I see Port, no really high impact stars. Wines is in the Steele style of player. You know what you get but he's not picking his team up on his back and running through the battlefield dodging bullets. Even when we got close in 2010 it was because a couple of guys in Lenny and BJ decided that it was time to go bang. Dusty single handedly broke open a couple of premierships and plenty of their finals were won through his personal impact.

The Dogs are probably the only side to win one without a bona fide high impact star yet...some of those kids went on to become that though. WCE eagles had Kennedy but probably lacked the impact player though too.

Hopefully King can step up and we can get a few more spread the load at least. At the moment a few years of playing finals without winning much sounds alright compared to starting again. If we miss finals again next year it could get ugly, you then have to make the call to double down or rebuild around King.
Click to expand...
Get Gresh back and Paddy is managed through the season and I reckon our midfield is more thna functional. Who gets injured and when they get injured is the key factor.

Take Melbourne for instance - their mids are structured to play around a dominant ruckman. Take Gawn out of Melbourne's side for half the season (ala Paddy) and they become a completely different side.

As good as Oliver and Petracca were this year - without Gawn they become less effective because defence is not their strong suit.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Get Gresh back and Paddy is managed through the season and I reckon our midfield is more thna functional. Who gets injured and when they get injured is the key factor.

Take Melbourne for instance - their mids are structured to play around a dominant ruckman. Take Gawn out of Melbourne's side for half the season (ala Paddy) and they become a completely different side.

As good as Oliver and Petracca were this year - without Gawn they become less effective because defence is not their strong suit.
Click to expand...
Defence not Melbourne's strong suit?

They were the best defensive side in the comp this is year.

Not only do they have a great backline and good defensive.set up but they also have a quality midfield that run harder each way than just about any other club

Losing quality players hurts any side but they are in a much better position to get by without Gawn than when are without Ryder IMO due to their elite midfield.
 
gringo2011 said:
You can only hope. Petracca was like Steele he was a good but not great player but even when he wasn't great he showed glimpses. I think you've listed most of the guys where improvement is likely to come from.

King does look on his way to being special but we need half a dozen to step up to a much higher level. Carlton had a Coleman medalist and a top 5 mid and went nowhere. You need the level below to step up and the bottom rungs to move into their positions.
Click to expand...
McKay was ok but 50 odd goals is a lot less than what I hope King is capable of , let's see what happens but we are in a position now where a lot of our younger brigade are about to step up or fizzle out.
Let's hope it is step up.
 

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Personally I'm very interested to see what difference and improvement we'll see in defense if/when Batts plays CHB, and the continued rise of the new GOAT.
I feel like these might be a couple of key pieces that will straighten the team up and facilitate other beneficial changes to the 2021 outfit.
Having Gresh and Pato to feed back in along with more games into B1&B2 is gonna change the nature of our depth options from retrograde to progressive.
If worst come to worst Tom Campbell can at least hold up as the ruckman and not leave up in the dire situation of this year.

Fixing weaknesses is the clear theme to me. It's not as exciting as a new star player but it's the most important element for sustainable success.
1. "Bridging the gap" (consistent efforts)
2. Batts to CHB (🤞)
3. GOAT as the 3rd tall
4. Campbell instead of Phunter
5. Correcting youth shortage
6. New fittness guy
7. New assistant/s
8. New head of development

None of this is earth shattering but all are evidence of correcting issues that have let us down repeatedly. The photo of our Capitan training with our youth and not Josh ****ing Bruce this off-season is another.
There's no reason l can see to be pessimistic about next year. I understand not everything is perfect yet but we'll have a better squad, easier fixture, less injuries, more consistent performances and you'd expect better coaching and tactics after getting caught out this year.
What's all this worth next to a star signing?
 
pebblesofsand said:
Get Gresh back and Paddy is managed through the season and I reckon our midfield is more thna functional. Who gets injured and when they get injured is the key factor.

Take Melbourne for instance - their mids are structured to play around a dominant ruckman. Take Gawn out of Melbourne's side for half the season (ala Paddy) and they become a completely different side.

As good as Oliver and Petracca were this year - without Gawn they become less effective because defence is not their strong suit.
Click to expand...


Melbourne had two very good inside mids in Brayshaw and Viney and added a star mid in Oliver and a super star mid forward in Petracca. I think there set up is a great mix with a lot of ball winners in and around the ball. Even with out Gawn they are a great midfield. Dogs more quality but Macrae is probably not as dominant as Oliver while Bont I probably as close to to Petracca as you can get.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
ummm we just delisted the bottom 6 on the list.
We'd hope the bottom 6 don't get a game, so they shouldn't affect the performances.
( Actually our current bottom 6 is as good as its been for a long time - Allison and Heath the only ones who haven't played a game and there is really no "cringe" if any of them have to play ).
Click to expand...

Players 17-22 are your bottom six aren't they? They are the players you want consistent C+ games out of.
 
gringo2011 said:
You can only hope. Petracca was like Steele he was a good but not great player but even when he wasn't great he showed glimpses. I think you've listed most of the guys where improvement is likely to come from.

King does look on his way to being special but we need half a dozen to step up to a much higher level. Carlton had a Coleman medalist and a top 5 mid and went nowhere. You need the level below to step up and the bottom rungs to move into their positions.
Click to expand...
Carlton's problem is their bottom 10 are very ordinary, which is not a problem for us. We have a very solid best 25, but as you rightfully point out we lack the top end talent to take us higher up the ladder. I can see how we could have a few take that step up, so I'm hopeful.

The funny thing is this is the opposite to how we've done it in the past. In '97 we had a top end of Harvey, Burke, Loewe and Winmar, but our bottom 6 was weak. In '09/10 we had Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo, but again were found out at the bottom end. We've traditionally relied on the superstars to carry us to glory, neglecting the need for a complete team. Maybe, just maybe, if we can get a few to step up to that level it could be a step better than those years.
 
gringo2011 said:
Melbourne had two very good inside mids in Brayshaw and Viney and added a star mid in Oliver and a super star mid forward in Petracca. I think there set up is a great mix with a lot of ball winners in and around the ball. Even with out Gawn they are a great midfield. Dogs more quality but Macrae is probably not as dominant as Oliver while Bont I probably as close to to Petracca as you can get.
Click to expand...
Yes we're reliant on Hunter, Gresh, Bytel and Byrnes to fill that gap. But Crouch has another level he can get to and Zones has been elite at times if only he could stay fit.

We have the personnel is their cohesion and performances that need to improve. Lucky you're such a patient fella.
 
gringo2011 said:
Melbourne had two very good inside mids in Brayshaw and Viney and added a star mid in Oliver and a super star mid forward in Petracca. I think there set up is a great mix with a lot of ball winners in and around the ball. Even with out Gawn they are a great midfield. Dogs more quality but Macrae is probably not as dominant as Oliver while Bont I probably as close to to Petracca as you can get.
Click to expand...
Gawn is Melbourne's best player, with Petracca possibly moving past him this year (2021). Structurally though, it all falls apart without Gawn. It is exactly the same as us in that Marshall is vital to the structure, and we struggle to cover his loss, even when Ryder is there. There is no way Melbourne even plays finals if Gawn had the same season as Marshall.
 
mad-saint-guy said:
Rather than doing my job, I feel like procrastinating so here's my take on the state of the list pre-draft

Best 22

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Billings
HF: Gresham, Marshall, Higgins
F: Butler, King, Membrey

Foll: Ryder, Crouch, Jones
Int: Clark, Ross, Sharman, Webster


Reserves

B: Geary, Joyce, ***
HB: Connolly, Highmore, Long
C: McKenzie, Hannebery, ***
HF: Kent, Wood, ***
F: Heath, Allison, ***

Foll: Campbell, Byrnes, Bytel



This says to me that our best 22 is in pretty good shape although we may need to find a better CHB option depending on how Battle goes in that role. I imagine we'll be looking for some skillful outside mids/small forwards in the draft and we could definitely use another genuine gun midfielder. It wouldn't surprise me if we grabbed another ruck/forward as well. With a good pre season, soft fixture and a decent run with injuries we should be pushing the top 6 and could even give the top 4 a shake if some guys like Clark and Coffield come into their own. If we have injuries to key players like Ryder/Howard/Marshall/Steele and stuff up another pre season then we could absolutely end up bottom 4.
Click to expand...
If Hannebery ever manages to get his body right and play regular footy, he is best 22. Given it is pre-pre-season I can dream, and one my of my most fervent hopes is that Hanners gets his body sorted and plays every game. If that happens he will quite possibly be another elite A grader in our team. It's a massive if I know, but I can dream in November!
 
PlayerNumber9 said:
Gawn is Melbourne's best player, with Petracca possibly moving past him this year (2021). Structurally though, it all falls apart without Gawn. It is exactly the same as us in that Marshall is vital to the structure, and we struggle to cover his loss, even when Ryder is there. There is no way Melbourne even plays finals if Gawn had the same season as Marshall.
Click to expand...
That's a bit over the top
 
luca77 said:
Not disagreeing.
Just wondering (anyone can answer):
How many clubs have a backup KPD close to 200cm that can actually 'football'. (Not including forwards who can go back if the KPD goes down).
The Eagles do, not sure the Lions do (Adams is probably similar height to the guys we've got).
Maybe someone with time can make a yes/no list - or just a yes or no list (whichever is shortest).

Also wondering (as I switched off in disgust a few times), does Lynch get more of his goals against us body to body, or on the lead?

Just trying to work out if recruiting some plonker because he's big and plays in defence is actually worth it.
Click to expand...

IMO, what we need is an athletic KPD that can play one on one, intercept mark plus take on the game and be offensive.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Yeah theoretically we could pick them ..... but clubs usually don't pick players who don't want to leave their current club.
Click to expand...
it has been done a few times recently not many though
 

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