List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

[triggering bro]

Gresham is our Petracca type but still has a way to go to bridge the gap, Steele is probably most like Viney, Crouch similar so maybe off sets a Brayshaw then we have Ross, Jones and Clark to try to beat Oliver. Their outside runners are top notch too but ours are no slouches either.

We really only need a ruck to break even with Gawn and someone to move into that Oliver ball pig type role to pretty much be on par with them. We aren't miles off with probably a bit more depth in reserve. Our depth of quality is good but probably just need some more absolute top end to match anyone. Dogs probably a better midfield but worse at the ends.

I think we have Viney covered fairly easily by Crouch who is a better player at this point in both of their careers. Gresh is Petracca & Steele is our Oliver. The issue is that Trac & Oliver are on another level to our two blokes. Gresh & Steele are arguably A graders but Trac & Oliver are elite. Trac is prob the best player in the comp & Oliver top 5 & best inside mid in the comp. Their talls are also on another level when you compare Gawn/Jackson combo, Lever & May to Paddy/Marshall combo, Howard & Battle. I reckon we have them covered in the forward line though which is evident by how incredibly efficient we are when the ball gets inside 50. Both teams runners are fairly even when you consider the improvement of Sinclair. The difference between both teams boils down to the midfield when you factor in our better fwd line vs their better back line.

 

[BrutThough]

I think we have Viney covered fairly easily by Crouch who is a better player at this point in both of their careers. Gresh is Petracca & Steele is our Oliver. The issue is that Trac & Oliver are on another level to our two blokes. Gresh & Steele are arguably A graders but Trac & Oliver are elite. Trac is prob the best player in the comp & Oliver top 5 & best inside mid in the comp. Their talls are also on another level when you compare Gawn/Jackson combo, Lever & May to Paddy/Marshall combo, Howard & Battle. I reckon we have them covered in the forward line though which is evident by how incredibly efficient we are when the ball gets inside 50. Both teams runners are fairly even when you consider the improvement of Sinclair. The difference between both teams boils down to the midfield when you factor in our better fwd line vs their better back line.

Steele arguably an A grader? He is a back-to-back All Australian, got the most coaches votes over the past 2 seasons and finished top 5 in both Brownlows.

Give him the credit he deserves.

 

[gringo2011]

Steele is a much better footballer than Viney, but Oliver and Petracca would be our best mids if we had them. If we had once of those we would probably be a real contender IMO

Probably still lack a quality key defender too

Every premiership side in recent history has had at least one of them, some have had 2

Neither of our two are in the same category as May, Grimes, Rance, McGovern etc

Our list is better than it ever has been in that 10 years and the depth us good, but still just lack a couple of key pieces I reckon

Wilkie is good and Battle is going very well as a third tall. Howard is the weak link at the moment, he's not really a stopper despite his size. He should be a loose interceptor. We have too much the same but the one you could lose is the hardest to replace.

 

[The_Steadier]

If only joyce was ~25% better than he is- we'd be set down back with him at FB.

Alas he isn't- so I'd be all for us trying to trade out the likes of highmore, battle, coffield, wilkie for a reliable gun FB like marcus adams or tom barrass.

(Not necessarily those actual guys- just someone equivalent to them)

The issue is that Trac & Oliver are on another level to our two blokes. Gresh & Steele are arguably A graders but Trac & Oliver are elite.

Oliver and steele at their best cancel eachother out I reckon, but the gap between trac and either gresh or sinclair is large.

The good news for us is though that sincs stepping up as a genuine mid has only just happened- so who knows how high that rocket can go?
by next year he could legit have done what steele did and be a genuine top 5-10 brownlow type player.
Meaning the gap to trac is quite small.

Same could be said for gresh- if he stays fit and gets a full year or more of footy into him, he too has all the attributes to do a steele and become a certified star of the comp.

Tonnes of water to go under those bridges- but it's not insane to think sincs and gresh could join steele as top 10 brownlow level mids in the next couple of years- they have the talent and drive.

 

[bird_man]

Wilkie is good and Battle is going very well as a third tall. Howard is the weak link at the moment, he's not really a stopper despite his size. He should be a loose interceptor. We have too much the same but the one you could lose is the hardest to replace.

Wilkie is playing more of a third tall than Battle I would have thought, while Battle is playing as a key defender

Neither are near the standard of the players I mentioned though

Howard has never been a strong interceptor so I don't understand why people think that role would suit him.

 

[triggering bro]

Steele arguably an A grader? He is a back-to-back All Australian, got the most coaches votes over the past 2 seasons and finished top 5 in both Brownlows.

Give him the credit he deserves.

Depends how you define elite vs A grade. The best in the caper are Dusty, Bont, Trac, Oliver, Neale & Mitchell when they won brownlows. Steele in that next rung after them hence why I didn’t label him elite. It’s a pointless argument anyway, the point is Steele isn’t on the same level as Oliver IMO. He’s next category.

 

[gringo2011]

If only joyce was ~25% better than he is- we'd be set down back with him at FB.

Alas he isn't- so I'd be all for us trying to trade out the likes of highmore, battle, coffield, wilkie for a reliable gun FB like marcus adams or tom barrass.




Oliver and steele at their best cancel eachother out I reckon, but the gap between trac and either gresh or sinclair is large.

The good news for us is though that sincs stepping up as a genuine mid has only just happened- so who knows how high that rocket can go?
by next year he could legit have done what steele did and be a genuine top 5-10 brownlow type player.
Meaning the gap to trac is quite small.

Same could be said for gresh- if he stays fit and gets a full year or more of footy into him, he too has all the attributes to do a steele and become a certified star of the comp.

Tonnes of water to go under those bridges- but it's not insane to think sincs and gresh could join steele as top 10 brownlow level mids in the next couple of years- they have the talent and drive.

Oliver is better than Steele IMO. He's able to assert himself on the game a lot more. Steel is around Wines level IMO. Still an absolute gun but more a muzzle loader than a semi automatic. Ginger Nuts if not quite top 5 but probably sits in the 5 to 10 best players in footy range. He's got the high possession numbers of a Macrae type but is a much more contested player.

 

[BrutThough]

Depends how you define elite. The best in the caper are Dusty, Bont, Trac, Oliver, Neale & Mitchell when they won brownlows. Steele in that next rung after them hence why I didn’t label him elite. It’s a pointless argument anyway, the point is Steele isn’t on the same level as Oliver IMO. He’s next category.

Steele's performances over the past few seasons have been consistently top tier and just as good as any other midfielder in the comp.

 

[triggering bro]

Steele's performances over the past few seasons have been consistently top tier and just as good as any other midfielder in the comp.

That’s your opinion & that’s fine. Do you believe the majority of the footy public rank Steele on par with Oliver? I don’t believe so.

It’s okay for there to be better opposition players out there without taking offence.

There’s a reason Oliver starts in the midfield in the AA teams & has a premiership medallion around his neck.

 

[triggering bro]

Oliver is better than Steele IMO. He's able to assert himself on the game a lot more. Steel is around Wines level IMO. Still an absolute gun but more a muzzle loader than a semi automatic. Ginger Nuts if not quite top 5 but probably sits in the 5 to 10 best players in footy range. He's got the high possession numbers of a Macrae type but is a much more contested player.

Steele is a gun but definitely not as good as Oliver. Oliver is universally seen as the best ball winner in the comp along with prob Cripps. Side note, I reckon that young Green bloke from GWS will catch up to them soon.

I reckon you are correct. Steele is at the Wines (even know he won a Brownlow), Macrae & Miller level. Very good players.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Steele is a gun but definitely not as good as Oliver. Oliver is universally seen as the best ball winner in the comp along with prob Cripps.

I reckon you are correct. Steele is at the Wines (even know he won a Brownlow), Macrae & Miller level. Very good players.

I'm fine with Oliver being rated above Steele, but Cripps did nothing in 2020 & 2021. He's played a couple of games early on this year that indicate he's back to his best (and then done a hammy), but I'll hold a few more weeks before being confident that he is.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Depends how you define elite vs A grade. The best in the caper are Dusty, Bont, Trac, Oliver, Neale & Mitchell when they won brownlows. Steele in that next rung after them hence why I didn’t label him elite. It’s a pointless argument anyway, the point is Steele isn’t on the same level as Oliver IMO. He’s next category.

Steele is equally as good as Oliver. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

Petracca is not that far in front of both of them but is capable of exploding for 10 mins & creating/kicking multiple goals.

We’re not going to be able to replicate what he can do individually but we can burst & score quickly through a weight of numbers…

Its going to be an intriguing match up when we play them.

I can’t get past how we were absolutely smoking them last season before we started messing around with it, lost momentum & they ran away with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BrutThough]

That’s your opinion & that’s fine. Do you believe the majority of the footy public rank Steele on par with Oliver? I don’t believe so.

It’s okay for there to be better opposition players out there without taking offence.

There’s a reason Oliver starts in the midfield in the AA teams & has a premiership medallion around his neck.

Oliver doesnt have a premiership medal because he is a better player than Steele. What a stupid comment. And the players who started on the field last year were all from top 8 sides so don't use that as a crap example as to why Steele is lesser either. Steele's consistently high performances speak for themselves.

I'm not taking offence to the comment that an opposition player is better. I am just sick of someone who has been one of the best players in the competition since 2020 being undersold by his own supporter base because they always feel the need to make their own players seem lesser than the actually are.

 

[triggering bro]

I'm fine with Oliver being rated above Steele, but Cripps did nothing in 2020 & 2021. He's played a couple of games early on this year that indicate he's back to his best (and then done a hammy), but I'll hold a few more weeks before being confident that he is.

Agree. Just saying Cripps is in the convo for best ball winner with Oliver. It does look like Cripps is back to his best - before injured.

 

[triggering bro]

Oliver doesnt have a premiership medal because he is a better player than Steele. What a stupid comment. And the players who started on the field last year were all from top 8 sides so don't use that as a crap example as to why Steele is lesser either. Steele's consistently high performances speak for themselves.

I'm not taking offence to the comment that an opposition player is better. I am just sick of someone who has been one of the best players in the competition since 2020 being undersold by his own supporter base because they always feel the need to make their own players seem lesser than the actually are.

Cleary you are offended as evident by your emotive response.

Oliver is a large part of the reason Melbourne are a successful premiership winning team. Undeniably.

Neutral supporters would have a good laugh if you said Steele is equal to Oliver. Give it a go on the main board.

 

[BrutThough]

Cleary you are offended as evident by your emotive response.

Oliver is a large part of the reason Melbourne are a successful premiership winning team. Undeniably.

Neutral supporters would have a good laugh if you said Steele is equal to Oliver. Give it a go on the main board.

Not offend, just think your opinion of Steele is incorrect and that Steele's performances also back up how incorrect you are.

 

[bird_man]

Oliver is probably the best contested player in the game

He's ahead of Steel IMO and I'd imagine most people in the media etc would agree with that

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Oliver has Steele covered in every area except tackles and looks. campaigner looks like a gypsy’s foot

 

[gringo2011]

Wilkie is playing more of a third tall than Battle I would have thought, while Battle is playing as a key defender

Neither are near the standard of the players I mentioned though

Howard has never been a strong interceptor so I don't understand why people think that role would suit him.

Battle looks a bit looser like he's getting high numbers of both possessions and marks. Wilkie often plays a tighter one on one role or has in the past. I must say that I haven't really registered who is playing on who in defence so it's going off numbers more than anything.

 

[bird_man]

Battle looks a bit looser like he's getting high numbers of both possessions and marks. Wilkie often plays a tighter one on one role or has in the past. I must say that I haven't really registered who is playing on who in defence so it's going off numbers more than anything.

Battle seems to be taking the 2nd tall forward most weeks e.g. Mihocek, Balta, Chol

 

[gringo2011]

Oliver doesnt have a premiership medal because he is a better player than Steele. What a stupid comment. And the players who started on the field last year were all from top 8 sides so don't use that as a crap example as to why Steele is lesser either. Steele's consistently high performances speak for themselves.

I'm not taking offence to the comment that an opposition player is better. I am just sick of someone who has been one of the best players in the competition since 2020 being undersold by his own supporter base because they always feel the need to make their own players seem lesser than the actually are.

I class them on A grade and elite. Elite is Dusty, Bont, Petracca, peak Dangerfield and Fyfe etc. Next tier down is your absolute A graders. Steele, Touk, Wines, Boak, Cripps, Andy Brayshaw etc. I reckon Oliver sits with a foot in each. He doesn't go full kick the door down take control of a game as often but he's the absolute best of the next tier down if not in the elite pool already.

Steele has been our best player and a top 20 AFL gun for a few years, that's nothing to be sneezed at. Gresham is probably the most impactful of our players and I think him and King could easily start to push into the elite range very soon. I reckon on 2022 form we have just had Sincs and Crouch move up into the A grader range and Ross would be getting closer on current out put. Snags and King both pretty much A grade if not quite there yet.

It's our best pool of high end talent since Rooey, Lenny and Milney were running around still. I don't think we should be getting upset about rankings to be honest.

 

[gringo2011]

Steele is equally as good as Oliver. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

Petracca is not that far in front of both of them but is capable of exploding for 10 mins & creating/kicking multiple goals.

We’re not going to be able to replicate what he can do individually but we can burst & score quickly through a weight of numbers…

Its going to be an intriguing match up when we play them.

I can’t get past how we were absolutely smoking them last season before we started messing around with it, lost momentum & they ran away with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Petracca would be the best player in footy after last year. He's got that Dusty style assert himself on games type of impact. He can lift himself above a stagnant game and break it open like the absolute best players in history. 39 possessions and 2 goals in a GF is absolute dominance. Steele is an exceptionally good, even player who gives everything but he hasn't got another gear like Bont and Trac.

 

[triggering bro]

I class them on A grade and elite. Elite is Dusty, Bont, Petracca, peak Dangerfield and Fyfe etc. Next tier down is your absolute A graders. Steele, Touk, Wines, Boak, Cripps, Andy Brayshaw etc. I reckon Oliver sits with a foot in each. He doesn't go full kick the door down take control of a game as often but he's the absolute best of the next tier down if not in the elite pool already.

Steele has been our best player and a top 20 AFL gun for a few years, that's nothing to be sneezed at. Gresham is probably the most impactful of our players and I think him and King could easily start to push into the elite range very soon. I reckon on 2022 form we have just had Sincs and Crouch move up into the A grader range and Ross would be getting closer on current out put. Snags and King both pretty much A grade if not quite there yet.

It's our best pool of high end talent since Rooey, Lenny and Milney were running around still. I don't think we should be getting upset about rankings to be honest.

Max King tracking elite but needs to put it together for a lot longer than 5 weeks. He’s leading the Coleman & he is the best contested mark in the league. That article about his score return being number 1 in the league for times his team mates target him inside 50 also helps his case for elite status. He could very well be in the elite category by the end of the year IMO.

 

[longlivelenny]

We really need a top quality lock down FB imo- a barrass type.

That is the domino that needs to fall and then we can be aggressive in shaping our list so we can win a flag.

Get a Barrass type gun FB, then we can do the following:

*Howard goes to CHB playing battle's current role.

*Battle plays as 3rd tall/intercept guy.

*Wilkie plays the small+tall role Liernart is currently keeping warm while coffield is out.

*Jwebb and Paton take the 2 small defender spots.


This setup creates the following issues:

1. I think in order to win a flag we need to continue to grow sinclair as a genuine mid now the penny has dropped for him- so no more playing him off HB. (Unless he's rotating w/ jimmy or paton).

2. Same applies for hill- no more playing off half back. Time to strap the big boy pants on and play wing or HF fulltime.

3. That leaves coffield in a tough spot- duking it out with wilkie for a spot down back.... but perhaps it's time for him to strap some big boy pants on too and either:
A- play like a genuine gun backman (as he's shown briefly) and relegate wilkie to the magoos, or
B- work his butt off and try and become a genuine mid or wingman.

Failing that, perhaps coffield could be used as trade bait to lure a gun mid or gun barrass type FB or ryder replacement?

4. Again, hunter clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

would also need big boy pants treatment too and commit to being a fulltime mid.

5. This relegates the likes of highmore, wood, lienart, byrnes, bytel, dmac, windy, nas to the magoos and/or injury backup.

Keep in mind all the above is assuming we have literally zero injuries (which of course never happens).
So note that if/when injuries do hit- guys like clark, coff, hill etc will get some opportunity to play off HB still.

Plus guys like nas, bytel etc will be ready to jump in and take a spot from guys like billings, ross, clark etc if they are good enough and/or injuries occur.



All of the above would then give us a best 22 fulltime mid group (including wings) of:

Steele
Crouch
Sincs
Ross
Jones
Clark
Billings
Hill

I have deliberately left gresh out of that group because as good as he is as a mid- he can also be a huge weapon up fwd.

So in an ideal world, with a fully fit list (ie clark and jones fit and in good form); we can push gresh fwd fulltime, displacing the spot windhager currently has.

TL;DR:
To me, turning our list into a flag winning one all starts with us getting a gun lockdown FB.
Doing that will force us to make some tough (but overall beneficial) calls on where guys play fulltime.

Why?
We need to throw everything at winning a flag in the next 3-4 years while steele and marshall are in their prime.

We as a club need to put our nuts on the table and have the goal of making top 4 every year for the next 3-4 years.

Setting a goal like that will make us ruthless at the selection table.

Kids (nas, bytel etc) and guys like wood, lienart etc who are showing glimpses of quality will still get opportunity, but they will need to smash the selectors door down with performance, not just potential.

Look at melbourne now for instance- their kids like jackson, bowey, pickett still get opportunity- but they need to perform at a top level or they're gone.

That's how it should be when you are legit trying to win a flag- your best 22 should not have guys like NWM, Wood, Lienart, Winghager, Long etc unless they are making themselves undroppable by performing like guns everyweek or you have lots of injuries.

Lots of good points but I think that doogs is the lockdown key back that we are stuck with. He is a gun 1% player who rarely gets beaten in the air. He is not a good intercept marker however. I think we need him and battle manning the key posts and a true interceptor similar to Howe as the third tall (which I'm hoping will be coff). Wilkie is a good player and very dependable but he also doesn't offer very much offensively. If coffield can provide 7/10 the defensive stuff of Wilkie but be a much better offensive threat then we will be in a better position as a team.
That would leave a back 6 of battle, doogs, coff, Paton jweb and Sinclair.
Sinclair should absolutely be left in the back line as that's where he plays the best.

I also eventually hope that Clark pushes out seb (although he's been very good this year) and NWM pushes out Billings.

Last thing we want is for nwm to request a trade back to Adelaide because he's not getting a game or Clark to request a trade because Ross is playing above him.

Find a trade for Ross or Billings and let the other play in the twos.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sun Ra]

Lots of good points but I think that doogs is the lockdown key back that we are stuck with. He is a gun 1% player who rarely gets beaten in the air. He is not a good intercept marker however. I think we need him and battle manning the key posts and a true interceptor similar to Howe as the third tall (which I'm hoping will be coff). Wilkie is a good player and very dependable but he also doesn't offer very much offensively. If coffield can provide 7/10 the defensive stuff of Wilkie but be a much better offensive threat then we will be in a better position as a team.
That would leave a back 6 of battle, doogs, coff, Paton jweb and Sinclair.
Sinclair should absolutely be left in the back line as that's where he plays the best.

I also eventually hope that Clark pushes out seb (although he's been very good this year) and NWM pushes out Billings.

Last thing we want is for nwm to request a trade back to Adelaide because he's not getting a game or Clark to request a trade because Ross is playing above him.

Find a trade for Ross or Billings and let the other play in the twos.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

"I think we need him and battle manning the key posts and a true interceptor similar to Howe as the third tall"

Pretty sure Cooper Sharman is being groomed as the third tall intercept marker. LOL.