List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part III

[gringo2011]

Saints In: pick 4, 22

Essendon In: pick 9, F1

Take 4 (Tsatas), 22 and 26 to the draft

Trade 32 for a future 2nd and 47 for a future 3rd

Hit next years draft with two 2nds, two 3rds

Hope like hell we don't bottom out next year

Next year sounds like the draft everyone wants to be in not trade out of. I would hate that. I'd rather take Humphrey or Phillipou and hope they turn out to be a star.

 

[kernelT]

Did Salopek get done this year?

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

I’ve been in the UK for work the last week, what the hell happened? How did we do absolutely nothing??

 

[sunny3193]

One of the first steps towards negativity towards the club was being at a club event and hearing them going on about how little the Saints fans care about success. I nearly walked out. The people that work for the club have no idea about the fan's motivations and think that our patience is acceptance.

If Gags actually had some kind of plan for how this magical spike will occur you might actually have some faith in it. It sounds more like we are at the start of another rebuild if we are going to be doing it all through the draft. It probably means a step back for 4+ years realistically because you are going to have to trade guys out to get picks.

I agree with you that the comment re patience was a bit off the mark. But I read the totality of his comments a little different than yourself and Mowman for example.
They seemed perfectly in tune for a club that has premiership ambitions, discontent with finishing sixth. Nothing wrong with that at all.
The comment re patience was, at best, clumsy.
At worst, disconnected from the fans.

 

[StCicatriz]

so the only really thing to come out this trade period is confirmation on how incredibly cooked we are. Gag's comments today should be a huge red flag. we are going no where fast under this list management.

his primary responsibility is to establish the LONG TERM list strategy to get us a flag and then ensure we implement that strategy.

he's loaded up in the short term, burning a top 5 pick, its gone **** up and hasn't worked and now his whole strategy is we will spend 12 months either finishing top 4 or bottoming out.

like how is that a strategy???????? its neither here nor there. is he aware of the age of some of the key pillars of the side? does he really think one more draft period is gonna fix all our issues?

it's like me going to my boss and saying "look i aim to deliver the work to you on time and on budget, but if it won't meet your requirements, then i won't do it at all and you'll have to wait until i can meet your requirements. that could be 12 months away."

there is absolutely no way thats acceptable.

there literally is no expectation and thats our biggest issue. we've had this flip flopping on the assessment of the side because there is no expectation. just an assessment at the minute. there's no long term plan or assessing us against that plan. its literally 'what you see is what you get' and 'it is what it is'. this was the same problem with the presidents correspondence, its the same problem in the members Q&A sessions.

there literally is no solid plan that is being sold to supporters beyond the latest thought bubble in the moment or what ever they think will resonate with supporters.

now Gags in in richo territory where he gets a 2nd crack at it. can we just cut this one off early and let walsh find a decent list boss and head recruiter.

 

[DarkSaint]

so the only really thing to come out this trade period is confirmation on how incredibly cooked we are. Gag's comments today should be a huge red flag. we are going no where fast under this list management.

his primary responsibility is to establish the LONG TERM list strategy to get us a flag and then ensure we implement that strategy.

he's loaded up in the short term, burning a top 5 pick, its gone **** up and hasn't worked and now his whole strategy is we will spend 12 months either finishing top 4 or bottoming out.

like how is that a strategy???????? its neither here nor there.

it's like me going to my boss and saying "look i aim to deliver the work to you on time and on budget, but if it won't meet your requirements, then i won't do it at all and you'll have to wait until i can meet your requirements. that could be 12 months away."

there is absolutely no way thats acceptable.

there literally is no expectation and thats our biggest issue. we've had this flip flopping on the assessment of the side because there is no expectation. just an assessment at the minute. there's no long term plan or assessing us against that plan. its literally 'what you see is what you get' and 'it is what it is'. this was the same problem with the presidents correspondence, its the same problem in the members Q&A sessions.

there literally is no solid plan that is being sold to supporters beyond the latest thought bubble in the moment or what ever they think will resonate with supporters.

now Gags in in richo territory where he gets a 2nd crack at it. can we just cut this one off early and let walsh find a decent list boss and head recruiter.

Couldn't agree more.

Absolute contradictions from everyone at the club over the last 4 years on some many different scenarios. Blind leading the blind.

 

[SaintyMcSaintface]

So how far along the road to 2018 are we?

 

[stavro#4]

Most of the good sides seem to have got better.

Melbourne have got Grundy and Hunter for not much, as well as Schache who will probably thrive playing in a taller forward line.

We threw everything in the de Goey basket and didn't really improve our draft hand.

I don't really see us getting any better.

We are in a lot of trouble.

It seems we went into this deciding everyone had a ceiling - in price and trade value - and we weren't willing to go beyond our limit. Whether that was the correct decision, we won't know for many years.

Thats the biggest positional hole on the list. What are our options now?

• Delisted Bin. Any notable talls get cut?
• Another SANFL punt
• Draft
• Convince Ryder to come back? (this one is only 1% serious)

5 on the bench. Blood Heath.

 

[DougalHoward]

So how far along the road to 2018 are we?

Thanks CARO

 

[StCicatriz]

Couldn't agree more.

Absolute contradictions from everyone at the club over the last 4 years on some many different scenarios. Blind leading the blind.

i'd understand if it was a once of contradiction and mis understanding, but its been on repeat since Bassat took over. every ****in half season there's a complete 180 on the assessment of the club.

it's just flat out disturbing how wildy off the assessment is each time. the more bizarre thing is some of it is mid season!!!!!!!

its 100% obvious now that there's no long term plan or we have one but we don't adhere to it.

 

[gringo2011]

It seems we went into this deciding everyone had a ceiling - in price and trade value - and we weren't willing to go beyond our limit. Whether that was the correct decision, we won't know for many years.

Thats the biggest positional hole on the list. What are our options now?

• Delisted Bin. Any notable talls get cut?
• Another SANFL punt
• Draft
• Convince Ryder to come back? (this one is only 1% serious)

If we are bin digging Narkle looks the pick of the delisted players. Daniel Howe at the Hawks played some outside midfield and looked like he had a arrived a couple of years ago. He had some big stats.

Jackson Callow the best of the tall forwards. Hartigan and Skinner are both meh but available. Matt Conroy is a huge raw athletic ruck forward from GC who is only 22. His brother plays league and was meant to be promising.

2022 AFL Retirements Delisting - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[sauce_head]

One of the first steps towards negativity towards the club was being at a club event and hearing them going on about how little the Saints fans care about success. I nearly walked out. The people that work for the club have no idea about the fan's motivations and think that our patience is

One of the first steps towards negativity towards the club was being at a club event and hearing them going on about how little the Saints fans care about success. I nearly walked out. The people that work for the club have no idea about the fan's motivations and think that our patience is acceptance.

If Gags actually had some kind of plan for how this magical spike will occur you might actually have some faith in it. It sounds more like we are at the start of another rebuild if we are going to be doing it all through the draft. It probably means a step back for 4+ years realistically because you are going to have to trade guys out to get picks.

Who the far k said that? That is appalling and absolute bull sh it. I’m so angry about that. We care more than anybody. We want to taste it.

I’m surprised somebody didn’t die or get seriously hurt at such a statement.

 

[Drop Kick]

Here's a good summary of the saints from Fox Footy,

The Saints basically stood still this trade period outside of adding Zaine Cordy

21

Zaine Cordy

Age

28

Ht

195cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

180.4

3star

D

8.1

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

2.9

3star

T

1.9

3star

MG

180.4

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

as a free agent from the Western Bulldogs. But could they really afford to?

This is a club that’s fallen short of expectations over the last two seasons including missing the finals this year despite sitting in the top four after Round 11.

They were among the Victorian clubs linked to Karl Amon

10

Karl Amon

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

294.5

4star

D

21.0

5star

K

15.0

5star

HB

6.0

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

2.0

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

146.8

3star

before he instead chose Hawthorn, and they went hard at Jordan De Goey

2

Jordan De Goey

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.1

5star

CL

2.3

4star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.3

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

until he recommitted to Collingwood.

St Kilda was also urged to explore moves for its current players with currency, such as Brad Hill and Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

, to bring in some draft capital. For Clark they rejected North Melbourne’s offer of second-round and third-round picks.

It means the Saints will go into next year with essentially the same line-up and will again be hoping to make finals, but they’re in a peculiar position where they’re not quite contending nor building for the future.

Cats do unthinkable, Lions roar into flag mix as Hawks’ rebuild hits a wall: Trade winners, losers

Cats do unthinkable, Lions roar into flag mix as Hawks’ rebuild hits a wall: Trade winners, losers

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[gringo2011]

Our trade period could have definitely been better, but it could also have been worse.

Gold Coast just lost a talented player very similar to Hunter Clark (high pick, injury interrupted few seasons recently) AND pick 7 because they cactus their salary cap.

Hawthorn just gutted their list for sweet * all in return. Gunston gone for late compo, O’Meara out for Meek, Mitchell gone for * all as a former Brownlow winner.

We got about what you’d hope for for Ben Long. We signed a free agent who HOPEFULLY will just be KPP depth. We can go to the draft with a top 10 pick and two 2nd round picks.

Disappointed we weren’t opportunistic in picking up some salary cap dump talent, especially listening to Gags today say we would t just throw money away to bring in players or something similar. Makes me think we didn’t even chase the Bowes and 7 trade.

But s**t, could be worse.

Yep personally I'm elated we didn't cause any self inflicted wounds. One of our better trade periods because we didn't do much. Picked up a bit of a list clogger to replace Joyce but that was it and it cost no capital. Lost Long for overs but gave away a late future pick in the deal which was less good.

 

[billings2paddy]

With McCartin at pick 1, Billings at 3, wer'e probably better off with 9

Probably should just focus on the rookie draft we seem to have a good strike rate there lol

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Offering 9 and clark for 3 has got me pissed. Think the only way I'll get past it is to buy a guitar.

Yeah unfortunately our trade period was less White Falcon, more Scrub Turkey.

 

[DarkSaint]

i'd understand if it was a once of contradiction and mis understanding, but its been on repeat since Bassat took over. every *in half season there's a complete 180 on the assessment of the club.

it's just flat out disturbing how wildy off the assessment is each time. the more bizarre thing is some of it is mid season!!!!!!!

its 100% obvious now that there's no long term plan or we have one but we don't adhere to it.

It honestly feels like every man for themselves every time something is said.

The communication to it's members has been lacking from the get go and the mid season review last season were the Rath and co blatantly lied to everyone that fitness wasn't an issue in the Q and A backing it up with stats and data etc.

90% of supporters on this form could see how unfit we were and how other teams were running over the top of us. Fast forward 3 months and our fitness and conditioning guy gets fired.

We seem to be doing some sort of review every season when things go pearshaped without and my real substance.

Our president really needs to come out over the next 2/3 months and make a statement on what we are actually doing or planning. His last statement on being a contender at this point in time has massively backfired. After topping up for 3 years and wasting top 30 picks on recycled players, we seem to be rebuidling again suddenly.

 

[gringo2011]

Who the far k said that? That is appalling and absolute bull sh it. I’m so angry about that. We care more than anybody. We want to taste it.

I’m surprised somebody didn’t die or get seriously hurt at such a statement.

It was someone who I didn't recognise and sounded like it came straight from the marketers handbook. We were at the academy and getting an introduction and they had a whole lot come in and speak to us. It made me realise that there is the club and people who work at the club. The club is what I love not the staff who work for it. Like the players, it's a job for most of them. I stopped going to club stuff because it pissed me off so much at the time.

You have to get those appointments right and build something that everyone wants to be part of. I heard Josh Jenkins saying that creating a good environment is more important than facilities and money talking about Geelong. Players want in because current players love the place. We need to do that.

 

[gringo2011]

Probably should just focus on the rookie draft we seem to have a good strike rate there lol

That's our time to shine.

 

[gringo2011]

It honestly feels like every man for themselves every time something is said.

The communication to it's members has been lacking from the get go and the mid season review last season were the Rath and co blatantly lied to everyone that fitness wasn't an issue in the Q and A backing it up with stats and data etc.

90% of supporters on this form could see how unfit we were and how other teams were running over the top of us. Fast forward 3 months and our fitness and conditioning guy gets fired.

We seem to be doing some sort of review every season when things go pearshaped without and my real substance.

Our president really needs to come out over the next 2/3 months and make a statement on what we are actually doing or planning. His last statement on being a contender at this point in time has massively backfired. After topping up for 3 years and wasting top 30 picks on recycled players, we seem to be rebuidling again suddenly.

Hopefully the Noble report has some kind of road map out to follow it.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Not terribly surprised with the outcome.
We aimed for quality with FA and missed.
We aimed for quality with an early draft pick and also missed.
We seemed to be very specific in that aspect this year, I wonder if this focus on quality is function of the review or the input from guys like Noble and Walsh.
Seems to me that what we tried to do was consistent with Walsh’s observations on his appointment.
Seems that we are prepared to walk away too.
We end up with a good FRDP, and two good SRDPS and a useful TRDP this year, plus 2023 FR, SR, & TR DPs are still intact.
Plus we know there’s another $800k spare in the SC.
Meaning we absolutely retain our flexibility going forward, and that’s worth something. Who knows what the future might bring?
Another Bowes, but one who is from Bayside?

Flexibility does little if we can't attract players to the club.

 

[True Believer]

Offering 9 and clark for 3 has got me pissed. Think the only way I'll get past it is to buy a guitar.

Now that's a damn fine solution to any problem. Whenever my wife asks me how many guitars I need, my standard answer is "one more than I currently have".....

 

[bergholt]

Saints In: pick 4, 22

Essendon In: pick 9, F1

Take 4 (Tsatas), 22 and 26 to the draft

Trade 32 for a future 2nd and 47 for a future 3rd

Hit next years draft with two 2nds, two 3rds

Hope like hell we don't bottom out next year

I’m pretty confident based on what Gags said today that the plan is to bottom out, so I doubt we’ll be trading any future picks.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I’m pretty confident based on what Gags said today that the plan is to bottom out, so I doubt we’ll be trading any future picks.

So, just in time for a new Tassie team and the compromised drafts…

 

[JediSaint]

Sheezel is a hybrid. Kicks bags of goals, plays HF and middle. Racked up 39 and 33 disposals during the year. He said he wants to be at St Kilda. Only problem is North want him too.

Norf will take
Wardlaw & Tsatas. They like the idea of these 2 being best mates and have been playing together since they were 11.

Sneezel will go to the Bombers