List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part III

[Pakenhamsaint]

FWIW, Cordy's terms are such that the Doggies are not receiving any FA compo.

Picking up Jones has undone them on that front

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Nice mathematics, but is anyone going to swap 28 and 32 for 13?
Points are only useful when you need points.

Exactly.

Was just providing the breakdown of what our picks are worth & were they could possibly get us.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So.....

Long for 32
Clark & Future 3rd for 8

Future 2nd for Mitchell
28 & 32 for 16

Hit draft with 8,9 & 16

2023 we go balls in on Anderson?

I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell is available for a 3rd or later

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

mitchel? jesus. Said it at the start of this year a bunch, say it again now, we need to hit the draft for 3 years, stop trading in washed up players that are gonna keep us 9th. Prefer to finish 15th for 3 years and build with a decent list from there that can produce finals+ results for a decade than to top up and flirt around for a few years only to do the inevitable hard reset in 3 years time.

 

[stavro#4]

So.....

Long for 32
Clark & Future 3rd for 8

Future 2nd for Mitchell
28 & 32 for 16

Hit draft with 8,9 & 16

2023 we go balls in on Anderson?

This would be my plan.

Throw in Spider-Man from Melbourne. Just because he has potential.

Look at the likes of Stocker to fill out the list.

Maybe consider a GWS ruck if they land soldo as ruck depth.

 

[The_Steadier]

The one thing that stood out when we played the good midfields. Was that they pumped us with their quality around the ball.

Mitchell Crouch Steele is as good in the coal face as anything out there.

It’s also legitimately the last roll of the dice to make Hill work.

It also puts some serious mentors in place for Owens and Windhager +pick 9.

That’s a huge selling point to me.

Yep, mitchells age works well for windy and owens too.

If they are legit future gun mids (jury is still out- signs are good, but long way to go).... they will still be in the team everyweek with long leaving opening up a spot at HF.
So they will be able to continue to develop etc and not languish at sandy.

Remember in theory (based on our list profile and decade of rebuilding) we should be contending for top 8 and top 4.

So they are doing pretty well if they are 19/20 years olds getting a game everyweek in a finals/flag bound (in theory) team... even if it is at HF.

Their time will come, but when your team (in theory) is pushing for finals and flags- even the gun youngsters need to accept they can't be the stars of the show yet

 

[stavro#4]

mitchel? jesus. Said it at the start of this year a bunch, say it again now, we need to hit the draft for 3 years, stop trading in washed up players that are gonna keep us 9th. Prefer to finish 15th for 3 years and build with a decent list from there that can produce finals+ results for a decade than to top up and flirt around for a few years only to do the inevitable hard reset in 3 years time.

I suggest you read the proposition. We are hypothetically suggesting 3 top 20 picks.

With Mitchell on top.

 

[stavro#4]

Yep, mitchells age works well for windy and owens too.

If they are legit future gun mids (jury is still out- signs are good, but long way to go).... they will still be in the team everyweek with long leaving opening up a spot at HF.
So they will be able to continue to develop etc and not languish at sandy.

Remember in theory (based on our list profile and decade of rebuilding) we should be contending for top 8 and top 4.

So they are doing pretty well if they are 19/20 years olds getting a game everyweek in a finals/flag bound (in theory) team... even if it is at HF.

Their time will come, but when your team (in theory) is pushing for finals and flags- even the gun youngsters need to accept they can't be the stars of the show yet

Yep.

Would mean the next man up across every line is a kid aswell - Bar Cordy and Campbell

 

[Cam Shenton]

Weekend at Cordy’s

 

[Armoooo]

If we can get Mitchell for a 3rd, we have to take it IMO.

Mitchell, Steele and Crouch would make for a slow midfield, but they shouldn't be beaten around the contest too often. A good coach should be able to make that combination work.

The challenge will be to make sure it doesn't impede the development of Windhager, Owens and our first round selection this year.

 

[stavro#4]

If we can get Mitchell for a 3rd, we have to take it IMO.

Mitchell, Steele and Crouch would make for a slow midfield, but they shouldn't be beaten around the contest too often. A good coach should be able to make that combination work.

The challenge will be to make sure it doesn't impede the development of Windhager, Owens and our first round selection this year.

I think it allows for Steele to spend more time forward. Where he looked really good at times in 2020/21

I also don’t want to be leaving Windhager and Owens exposed against gun midfields without top level support.

Gets Gresham forward of the centre aswell.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

It was a big monday.

Let's hope he can show a little more stamina for the Saints than he showed on mad Monday after his three day hour bender.

 

[The_Steadier]

we need to hit the draft for 3 years

Firstly- the whole point of tom mitchell being an attractive option is that he would NOT impact our ability to 'hit the draft'... because the point is, he is potentially gettable for an ordinary pick as a salary dump.

Ie, we wouldn't use any first rounders on him.


Secondly- how hard do you want to 'hit the draft' for 3 years?:

2022 bnf:

1. Jack Sinclair (174 votes)
2. Callum Wilkie (153 votes)
3. Jack Steele (124 votes)
4. Tim Membrey (103 votes)
5. Seb Ross (102 votes)
6. Brad Crouch (93 votes)
=7. Jade Gresham (91 votes)
=7. Bradley Hill (91 votes)
=7. Max King (91 votes)
10. Josh Battle (68 votes)

Rowan Marshall

By the time anyone we draft NOW, let alone in 3 years- becomes of any real use to us.... practically ALL of our best players are over 30 years old

'Hitting the draft' is a noble sentiment, because forever looking at future 'potential' is a copout when actual performance in the present is lacking.

It's also a recipe for rebuilds that literally never end.

We've built the entire list (for better or worse) for a decade to be in a position to go for a flag in the next few years- it's time to roll the dice and see it through.

 

[gringo2011]

Well now ypu contradict yourself. You surmmised that he was guaranteed a 22 spot, you are retracting that now when challenged. Blah blah blah

I've been consistent. Maybe your comprehension skills need work.

 

[Yawkey way]

Cordy taking a KPD role on our list doesn’t make us a better football club. It doesn’t give us more wins. Because when everyone is fit - he won’t play.

So - yes, he fills a need

No, we aren’t a better side. We haven’t improved and thus are treading water whilst the sides we want to catch are all improving

That is the issue posters and fans have. So, back to my original point. They need to work something out from here that makes us better.

Mitchell in

Clark out for pick 8

Long out and the pick combined with other picks upgraded to a top 20 pick

Would be something I could personally get behind inconjunction with Cordy.

I’d move on Clark as his mindset isn’t right for what we want to achieve.

I’d even consider Spider-Man from Melbourne at this point as forward/ruck support.

That would move the needle enough for me to give Walsh and co 12 months to bring in a big gun in Anderson etc

I’m not moving Clark he’s too talented to let him walk, bring forward next years first rounder. Then if nas won’t sign on and ends up traded we’re back in the first round again.

 

[gringo2011]

Gringo stated we have guaranteed Cordy a spot. Don't know how he comes to that conclusion, must be privvy to the trading conversations.

When did I say he's guaranteed a spot. I've said he's not coming to be depth. If you are getting courted to move clubs it's not to be the next Darragh Joyce.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Honestly have no issues at all with getting Tom Mitchell if it costs us nothing much. It puts pressure on our midfield (including Mitchell) to perform, because spots will be limited. I think Windhager/Owens can both play forward rotating through the middle. Having Mitchell also allows us to play Gresh forward more which we need and allow Steele to rest forward which he didn't do this year at all.

 

[stavro#4]

I’m not moving Clark he’s too talented to let him walk, bring forward next years first rounder. Then if nas won’t sign on and ends up traded we’re back in the first round again.

Neither Adelaide club looks like having a first rounder next year.

And if he is as good as what we believe. We will want 2.

I personally don’t care how talented Clark is if the work ethic to meet it isn’t there.

 

[gringo2011]

The issue is that Cordy in isolation is a very average footballer.

Cordy amongst 2-3 other deals and it’s okay.

Missing out on De Goey and Bews/7 means there is very little to wet the appetite and begin to change the narrative that Walsh has set.

We as fans feel that. See that.

Club now needs to do something and have a good win on a deal. Because backing the list to go again with pick 9 as the marquee in. Isn’t a game changing win.

The only way we move forward is to improve internally. I hope that they don't go on a mission to make the trade period exciting for the fans. Get good administrators in with a plan, pay the best recruiting, development and coaching staff and start working through the list to make sure we get maximum value from what's already there.

Cofield, Clark, King, Snags, Gresham types are taking us forward through internal improvement. Not the new kids or even Winghager and Owens. We need a game plan that keeps up with the better sides and to maximise what we already have. Richmond improved from their game plan more than they did from getting Prestia in. DH worked out that planning around what you have works better than fighting against what you don't have.

 

[Strahany]

I suggest you read the proposition. We are hypothetically suggesting 3 top 20 picks.

With Mitchell on top.

I remember what happened the last time we brought on a bloke that was obsessed with 3 top 20 picks per draft

 

[lewdogs]

Has there been any real link with Mitchell? Only seen him linked to the Pies.

 

[Lightsxo]

When did I say he's guaranteed a spot. I've said he's not coming to be depth. If you are getting courted to move clubs it's not to be the next Darragh Joyce.

Of course he’s not coming to be depth. Which footballer would do that.

He reckons he can crack our best 22 and that’s the attitude we need our blokes to have.

Now it’s up to our coaching staff to hold the players to a standard.

I don’t get the melts around this.

 

[stavro#4]

The only way we move forward is to improve internally. I hope that they don't go on a mission to make the trade period exciting for the fans. Get good administrators in with a plan, pay the best recruiting, development and coaching staff and start working through the list to make sure we get maximum value from what's already there.

Cofield, Clark, King, Snags, Gresham types are taking us forward through internal improvement. Not the new kids or even Winghager and Owens. We need a game plan that keeps up with the better sides and to maximise what we already have. Richmond improved from their game plan more than they did from getting Prestia in. DH worked out that planning around what you have works better than fighting against what you don't have.

Prestia has been integral to all the good at Richmond since he got there.

Don’t fool yourself into believing otherwise.

King is the only player with superstar potential on our list.

 

[Yawkey way]

Battle to his natural forward position? Just after he has settled in defence, had his best season and is happy playing there. Can't believe the stuff I hear in here.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

I couldn’t care less what battle or anyone else thinks while we’re finishing out of the 8, it’s all too precious. He has improved as a defender but he needed to and his best season up forward was 12 goals. When he makes himself too good to be left out then I’ll scream about bringing in blokes we don’t need, until then if Cordy makes us better I’m happy to have him on the list.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Firstly- the whole point of tom mitchell being an attractive option is that he would NOT impact our ability to 'hit the draft'... because the point is, he is potentially gettable for an ordinary pick as a salary dump.

Ie, we wouldn't use any first rounders on him.


Secondly- how hard do you want to 'hit the draft' for 3 years?:

2022 bnf:

1. Jack Sinclair (174 votes)
2. Callum Wilkie (153 votes)
3. Jack Steele (124 votes)
4. Tim Membrey (103 votes)
5. Seb Ross (102 votes)
6. Brad Crouch (93 votes)
=7. Jade Gresham (91 votes)
=7. Bradley Hill (91 votes)
=7. Max King (91 votes)
10. Josh Battle (68 votes)

Rowan Marshall

By the time anyone we draft NOW, let alone in 3 years- becomes of any real use to us.... practically ALL of our best players are over 30 years old

'Hitting the draft' is a noble sentiment, because forever looking at future 'potential' is a copout when actual performance in the present is lacking.

It's also a recipe for rebuilds that literally never end.

We've built the entire list (for better or worse) for a decade to be in a position to go for a flag in the next few years- it's time to roll the dice and see it through.

They'll be around 30, not necessarily over 30. And besides, as we've just seen, 30 aint too old at all, especially if we have quality youth coming through - Windy, Owens, NWM, other players hitting their peak like King, Gresham (hopefully played forward), Higgins (I think could be AA if he gets his game right), Coff, Clarke, etc.

If our best players now are still our best players in 3 years we've got much bigger problems.

And if we have the room for Mitchell in the salary then why aren't we going for Bowes? My argument is that topping up too much in the rebuild phase stops you from accessing the top talent. I don't want to finish 9th or 8th or 7th only to go out in the first week. I want to finish 15th for 2 years, 11th for the next, then actually contend with a quality team. It's the only proven way we've managed to contend in the past 20 years. We're not Geelong, we can't attracted top end talent on minimum wage. Not without first building a proper team first.

Or like, just keep doing the same thing over and over and hope we get lucky or something