Rumour 2023 Rumours and Speculation (Rumours total 33!, 1 BIG FISH ALERT last October 4th) (7 confirmed! 11 Busted!)

[Southerntakeover]

I wouldnt. I lived away from my family for years. And took jobs for less money. That's just me.

Yeah but neither of those two things was your choice

 

[rabidcrow]

is there evidence that the value of Visy's sponsorship to Carton was reduced by the value of the Judd/Visy ambassador deal? I doubt it and I doubt it ever happened, Pratts just that wealthy that what they gave Judd didn't impact their original deals.

Must have had some advantage for Carlton - the AFL changed the rule due to that particular endorsement


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[Concussion test]

Well, you'll do the same if someone offered you 4 years at $1M. They had the COLA which meant they always had more in salary cap than other clubs, this was meant to be spread across the entire playing group but they use it to bring in Tippett and Franklin the following year on big money so the AFL end up removing the COLA lol. Funnily they extend Tippett's contract by 2 years and then he retired with 1.5 years left on his contract.

He initially extended his contract to help Sydney with their salary cap which was bursting.
His body was shot so by retiring early it allowed Sydney to add a player to their list.

It didn't mean he wasn't paid in full. I'd be very confident he rightfully took every dollar he was owed.
There's no early lump sum payout they just get paid their future salary the same time as anyone else on the the list (still playing).
If teams are foolish enough to sign players to long contracts I don't see why players shouldn't hold them to it.

 

[Apsaalooke]

He initially extended his contract to help Sydney with their salary cap which was bursting.
His body was shot so by retiring early it allowed Sydney to add a player to their list.

It didn't mean he wasn't paid in full. I'd be very confident he rightfully took every dollar he was owed.
There's no early lump sum payout they just get paid their future salary the same time as anyone else on the the list (still playing).
If teams are foolish enough to sign players to long contracts I don't see why players shouldn't hold them to it.

Clubs are offering long contracts in order to retain/lure wanted players, knowing they’ll likely have to wear some pain in the last 1-2 years of the contract

 

[GreyCrow]

He initially extended his contract to help Sydney with their salary cap which was bursting.
His body was shot so by retiring early it allowed Sydney to add a player to their list.

It didn't mean he wasn't paid in full. I'd be very confident he rightfully took every dollar he was owed.
There's no early lump sum payout they just get paid their future salary the same time as anyone else on the the list (still playing).
If teams are foolish enough to sign players to long contracts I don't see why players shouldn't hold them to it.

Look up Bobby Bonilla day

 

[Concussion test]

Look up Bobby Bonilla day

Was Ned Guy at the Mets before he went to Collingwood?

 

[Concussion test]

Look up Bobby Bonilla day

We need to embrace our mistakes like the Mets.

Anyone for a Kurt Tippett or Bryce Gibbs day?

 

[50BC]

I thought we'd guaranteed Tippett a certain amount of sponsorship dollars but were going to fall short

We found the money by "tipping" (the word Fabulous Phil used in his email) Balfours sponsorship money that was going to the club into Kurt's pocket to make up the shortfall

Which was one of three things we were pinged for

Nah, wasn't like that. Was more about making an argument he would have an income post football if he stayed in Adelaide because of the profile plying for AFC would give him locally. But it was a genuine 3rd party contract in that he did actually do the advertising work.
Other teams merely received a token fine for " late lodgement of paperwork"

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Nah, wasn't like that. Was more about making an argument he would have an income post football if he stayed in Adelaide because of the profile plying for AFC would give him locally. But it was a genuine 3rd party contract in that he did actually do the advertising work.
Other teams merely received a token fine for " late lodgement of paperwork"

These are the findings:

"As announced by Chairman Mike Fitzpatrick, all parties pleaded guilty to all charges laid against them,” Mr Demetriou said.

“The charges against the Adelaide Crows Football Club, its officials and former player Kurt Tippett all related to, firstly, a side agreement, outside the standard playing contract, for the Adelaide Crows to transfer player Tippett to the club of his choice after the 2012 season; This agreement was signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year.

“Secondly, there were side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett of $100,000 in both 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the club for promotional work; These side agreements were signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL. The effect of this would have been to make Kurt Tippett a free agent when he was not entitled to be one.

“Thirdly, there was the facilitation by the Adelaide Crows Football Club of three separate side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett in 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the Club for promotional work. The facilitation of these agreements occurred across the various years 2009, 2010 and 2011 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL.”

 

[Crow till I die]

These are the findings:

"As announced by Chairman Mike Fitzpatrick, all parties pleaded guilty to all charges laid against them,” Mr Demetriou said.

“The charges against the Adelaide Crows Football Club, its officials and former player Kurt Tippett all related to, firstly, a side agreement, outside the standard playing contract, for the Adelaide Crows to transfer player Tippett to the club of his choice after the 2012 season; This agreement was signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year.

“Secondly, there were side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett of $100,000 in both 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the club for promotional work; These side agreements were signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL. The effect of this would have been to make Kurt Tippett a free agent when he was not entitled to be one.

“Thirdly, there was the facilitation by the Adelaide Crows Football Club of three separate side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett in 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the Club for promotional work. The facilitation of these agreements occurred across the various years 2009, 2010 and 2011 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL.”

This is a rumours and speculation thread I thought - not as 'relive a horror story' thread

 

[50BC]

Must have had some advantage for Carlton - the AFL changed the rule due to that particular endorsement


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The issue re the Visy money was Judd was doing diddly squat for the money he was being paid.

 

[50BC]

These are the findings:

"As announced by Chairman Mike Fitzpatrick, all parties pleaded guilty to all charges laid against them,” Mr Demetriou said.

“The charges against the Adelaide Crows Football Club, its officials and former player Kurt Tippett all related to, firstly, a side agreement, outside the standard playing contract, for the Adelaide Crows to transfer player Tippett to the club of his choice after the 2012 season; This agreement was signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year.

“Secondly, there were side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett of $100,000 in both 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the club for promotional work; These side agreements were signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL. The effect of this would have been to make Kurt Tippett a free agent when he was not entitled to be one.

“Thirdly, there was the facilitation by the Adelaide Crows Football Club of three separate side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett in 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the Club for promotional work. The facilitation of these agreements occurred across the various years 2009, 2010 and 2011 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL.”

Obviously the illegal transfer agreement was the biggest issue, but in regards the promotional work, as I said, it was the amateur hour failure to declare the promotional agreements ( balfours) was the issue as it would have been allowed if declared. Other clubs had done similar in failing to declare and received raps on the knuckles only for "late lodgement". The "facilitation" of third party/ supplementary services again only a problem as it had been undeclared and all clubs continue to legally arrange supplementary services agreements for their players to this day.

We will never know exactly how much the Balfours contracts contributed to the penalty we received.

Don Scott a couple of years ago publicly confirmed Hawthorn had kept 2 sets of books for years in the 80s and 90s and made secret payments to top players through hidden bank accounts. We only heard crickets from the AFL about this. There are ongoing rumours about several Vic clubs, especially Geelong, continuing to do the same but the AFL refuses to hear the rumours and investigate if true.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Obviously the illegal transfer agreement was the biggest issue, but in regards the promotional work, as I said, it was the amateur hour failure to declare the promotional agreements ( balfours) was the issue as it would have been allowed if declared. Other clubs had done similar in failing to declare and received raps on the knuckles only for "late lodgement". The "facilitation" of third party/ supplementary services again only a problem as it had been undeclared and all clubs continue to legally arrange supplementary services agreements for their players to this day.

We will never know exactly how much the Balfours contracts contributed to the penalty we received.

Don Scott a couple of years ago publicly confirmed Hawthorn had kept 2 sets of books for years in the 80s and 90s and made secret payments to top players through hidden bank accounts. We only heard crickets from the AFL about this. There are ongoing rumours about several Vic clubs, especially Geelong, continuing to do the same but the AFL refuses to hear the rumours and investigate if true.

We left it out of the contracts lodged with the AFL for a reason

There's no dumbing it down, no minimising it, no "we were hard done by"

No matter how hard Adelaide fans continue to try

 

[50BC]

We left it out of the contracts lodged with the AFL for a reason

There's no dumbing it down, no minimising it, no "we were hard done by"

No matter how hard Adelaide fans continue to try

The contract exit trade agreement was blatantly illegal, we deserved to be punished for that.

But we were hard done by only because it was publicly exposed, others have managed to get away with worse because, unless forced to, the AFL takes a see no evil hear no evil attitude. Another example is they tried to let Essendon off so WADA had to intervene. Look at the racism enquiry at at Hawthorn, actively being engineered to find a nothing to see result.

The balfours supplementary services agreements wete sloppy paperwork to fail to lodge, stupid but exactly the same as other Vic clubs had done both before and after us.

Some have continued to allege the very existence of a supplementary service agreement was somehow devious and evil rather than merely ongoing standard practice and allowed for under the TPP rules.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The contract exit trade agreement was blatantly illegal, we deserved to be punished for that.

But we were hard done by only because it was publicly exposed, others have managed to get away with worse because, unless forced to, the AFL takes a see no evil hear no evil attitude. Another example is they tried to let Essendon off so WADA had to intervene. Look at the racism enquiry at at Hawthorn, actively being engineered to find a nothing to see result.

The balfours supplementary services agreements wete sloppy paperwork to fail to lodge, stupid but exactly the same as other Vic clubs had done both before and after us.

Some have continued to allege the very existence of a supplementary service agreement was somehow devious and evil rather than merely ongoing standard practice and allowed for under the TPP rules.

"Sloppy paperwork" my god

Please delete this email

 

[50BC]

"Sloppy paperwork" my god

Please delete this email

Well you see conspiracy, I just see gross incompetence.

 

[rabidcrow]

The contract exit trade agreement was blatantly illegal, we deserved to be punished for that.

But we were hard done by only because it was publicly exposed, others have managed to get away with worse because, unless forced to, the AFL takes a see no evil hear no evil attitude. Another example is they tried to let Essendon off so WADA had to intervene. Look at the racism enquiry at at Hawthorn, actively being engineered to find a nothing to see result.

The balfours supplementary services agreements wete sloppy paperwork to fail to lodge, stupid but exactly the same as other Vic clubs had done both before and after us.

Some have continued to allege the very existence of a supplementary service agreement was somehow devious and evil rather than merely ongoing standard practice and allowed for under the TPP rules.

True. To have the contract trade promise written down was stupid. But in reality every player picks the club the go too (as per the reasoning provided in the AFL statement) and look at the trades GWS and Gold Coast have done over the years. If we chose to accept lower value so be it
There are a heap of examples where clubs have accepted way unders. We were just stupid and wrote it down


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[TheRankineFile]

The issue re the Visy money was Judd was doing diddly squat for the money he was being paid.

In fairness he showed the board photos of Rebecca in her red dress.

 

[Mostyn]

We left it out of the contracts lodged with the AFL for a reason

There's no dumbing it down, no minimising it, no "we were hard done by"

No matter how hard Adelaide fans continue to try

Oh, I think we were hard done by.

The zero push back we offered at any point made it easy for them to take a stand against us.

The transfer thing was ridiculous. Trade him, if he chooses, to a club of his choice? What's the alternative - trade him to a club NOT of his choice?

We did the crime, sure - but our panicked admission of everything and throwing ourselves on the mercy of the AFL was a cowardly move.

 

[119others]

According to the website we diverted the Balfour's money to Tippet from their club sponsorship.
Yes he did do sponsor work for them but him and his management should have sourced that money independently from the sponsor.

I get the rules need to be there but it is totally subjective and easily subject to abuse and manipulation (Judd plus countless other contracts). From the posted article

The Age (Tippet hearing scheduled November 30) quoted Brendon Sanderson as saying that the whole case should make other clubs nervous.

“I probably shouldn’t comment on other clubs but I’m sure this is going to make a lot of other clubs nervous, too. There is a lot of greyness surrounding ASAs (additional services agreements) and how players are paid so probably the other 17 clubs are just double-checking and ensuring that everything is above board.”

 

[119others]

we didn't self report everything though, we tried to hide the Balfours marketing $ we diverted direct to tippett. Plus Bombers did what we didn't, which was sack the employees that they wanted sacked. We had all agreed on 1 year of draft penalties and Trigg sacked. Trigg refused to go and was going to bring the board down with him, so they chose to protect themselves instead of acting in the best interests of the club. Maybe you don't remember Vlad saying Dons got lesser penalties than us because they cooperated with the AFL and Rob Chapman crapping on about how he was rewriting a letter as we speak. Vlad laughed and smugly said he'd love for the Crows to let their members know everything that happened. Essendon definitely got off lightly, but we made a rod for our own back when our board protected themselves instead of executing their duties.

From Vlad

Crows penalties announced

Kurt Tippett has been hit with an 11-match suspension and Adelaide will lose their first two draft picks for 2013 over the AFL draft tampering and salary cap breach saga.

www.theage.com.au

Demetriou spoke glowingly of Trigg, saying he had made a stupid mistake but he would be welcomed back into the industry after serving his punishment. he went so far as to urge Crows supporters to forgive Trigg and his fellow officials, who had served Adelaide so well for so long. He asked for the football world to grant the offenders a second chance.

re Fitzpatrick comments on clubs cooperation

The Crows had been predicted to be penalised more heavily, with draft picks at multiple drafts and a bigger fine expected. Fitzpatrick noted the full co-operation of the club in the investigation, its previously unblemished record, its guilty plea, the fact it voluntarily gave up its first two draft picks at the recently completed national draft, and its expressions of remorse as factors taken into account when considering the penalties.


doesn’t exactly back up your previous points

 

[119others]

Pretty much. It had a massive impact on our ability to consistently play finals and stay there.
Once 2017 group broke there wasnt enough 23-25 year olds to carry us forward because of the sanctions.

I agree overall but was is most surprising was that in early 2017 a Best Under 23 players list had more Crows players listed than ANY other team. 7 players like CC, Mc Govern, Lever, M Crouch, Laird and a couple,of others (I’m sure the article could be found if anyone really had the inclination) and this was despite us missing the first 2 rounds of years (with the exception of M Crouch who we grabbed with the Vince trade) would have impacted this list. So in hindsight some remarkable drafting by Hamish in the 2012-2016 period who so many constantly bag but managed to have us with the most amount of talented under 23s in the whole comp despite having his hands tied.

The bigger issue overall for the club over 15 years has been retention with many league best players in their position (or at least elite in their position) leaving us - CC, Lever, Gunston, Danger, Davis etc. thankfully we may have turned a corner under Nicks. Improved culture and players loving it here and buying in. Dude and Worrell next test at the end of this year. And the big one with Rachele but thankfully not until end of 2025. He might need to get 5 years at 800-900k (on todays money) it’s looking like to me

 

[Apsaalooke]

From Vlad

Crows penalties announced

Kurt Tippett has been hit with an 11-match suspension and Adelaide will lose their first two draft picks for 2013 over the AFL draft tampering and salary cap breach saga.

www.theage.com.au

Demetriou spoke glowingly of Trigg, saying he had made a stupid mistake but he would be welcomed back into the industry after serving his punishment. he went so far as to urge Crows supporters to forgive Trigg and his fellow officials, who had served Adelaide so well for so long. He asked for the football world to grant the offenders a second chance.

re Fitzpatrick comments on clubs cooperation

The Crows had been predicted to be penalised more heavily, with draft picks at multiple drafts and a bigger fine expected. Fitzpatrick noted the full co-operation of the club in the investigation, its previously unblemished record, its guilty plea, the fact it voluntarily gave up its first two draft picks at the recently completed national draft, and its expressions of remorse as factors taken into account when considering the penalties.


doesn’t exactly back up your previous points

After the sheer incompetence of our administration, Chapman made it worse when negotiating sanctions. After they were handed down, he said that we got off lightly in that the AFL wanted worse - they wanted sackings (presumably Trigg, Reid and maybe Chapman himself) but it seems they avoided this by accepting worse draft sanctions instead. What a guy!

 

[119others]

After the sheer incompetence of our administration, Chapman made it worse when negotiating sanctions. After they were handed down, he said that we got off lightly in that the AFL wanted worse - they wanted sackings (presumably Trigg, Reid and maybe Chapman himself) but it seems they avoided this by accepting worse draft sanctions instead. What a guy!

Absolute incompetence agreed. From another post a few mins ago

Adelaide not feeling blue after winning a lenient penalty

In comparison to what happened to the last club to be convicted of salary cap rorts, Adelaide has been treated leniently by the AFL.

www.theage.com.au

Crows penalties announced

Kurt Tippett has been hit with an 11-match suspension and Adelaide will lose their first two draft picks for 2013 over the AFL draft tampering and salary cap breach saga.

www.theage.com.au

The Crows had been predicted to be penalised more heavily, with draft picks at multiple drafts and a bigger fine expected. Fitzpatrick noted the full co-operation of the club in the investigation, its previously unblemished record, its guilty plea, the fact it voluntarily gave up its first two draft picks at the recently completed national draft, and its expressions of remorse as factors taken into account when considering the penalties.

But yes it is Vic media who generally don’t like us and historically have a natural bias against what they deemed (at least early on) was a state team given excellent initial concessions (which was true but also we were so lucky such a huge amount of young elite SA talent was coming thru in that early 90’s period)

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Oh, I think we were hard done by.

The zero push back we offered at any point made it easy for them to take a stand against us.

The transfer thing was ridiculous. Trade him, if he chooses, to a club of his choice? What's the alternative - trade him to a club NOT of his choice?

We did the crime, sure - but our panicked admission of everything and throwing ourselves on the mercy of the AFL was a cowardly move.

?

That's not the illegal bit!

It's agreeing to trade him for under market value

Some posters seem to have a disingenuous setting with this that I cannot fathom. "We didn't go over the cap!" Trigg, Chapman, Reid... they aren't the club. You can actually sink the boots in. It doesn't diminish your support for the club.