2024 Draft Thread.

[Mat Mann]

Draft Period, November 20–21

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Wednesday, November 20
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Thursday, November 21
• Rookie Promotions: Thursday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Thursday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Friday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Friday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Friday, November 22, 3.20pm

 

[WhiskySaint]

The way I see it if we want 2 quality mids then there are two good possibilities…

Ideal - north trade down with Richmond and take Tauru. That leaves 6 quality mids on the board and we’ll get 1 to pair with Allan. (Reid isn’t in the 6 as I see it)

Less good - trade 8 + for 2 taking FOS to pair with Allan.

Bad - draft order stays the same and no tall is taken, so 6 good mids are off the table. We take Allan and next best.

Basically I don’t see anyone sliding to 7 if the draft order stays the same.

 

[HeavenlySources]

Some more frustrating scenarios:

• North Melbourne trading F1 in for a mid-late first and getting Trainor or another KPD with their second pick instead
• North Melbourne trading 2 for 10 + 11 (or any other combination not including Pick 6) to Richmond

 

[Diehard Saint]

As to "ass end picks", Arie says hello.

Hasn’t proven anything as yet.
Hopefully he does.

 

[The Jack]

Rubbish. Maybe read this thread. Bits and pieces .
Also can't stand this loser attitude about wanting to lose games.
One flag in a 150 years and we have people still with this culture.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Hey JB. Why is it a loser attitude? Its actual fact. The Higgins kick moved us from 5&6 to 7&8.

Let’s not pretend it didn’t. And let’s not pretend that win will significantly change our culture.

I wanted us to win that game as much as anyone. But it may well prove costly. It also may not. Nothing to do with loser mentality.

 

[TheJackal]

Extremely Hypothetical here

Trade 8 + F1 to NM for 2 and F2

2- FOS
7- Smillie/Jagga/Reid

Trade NM F2 (20), our F2 (25) and 32 this year for a pick between 13-16 (this has a draft points value of an additional pick 13-15 to the other club which can hopefully get the deal done)

Take either Trainor, Bo Allan, or a slider at the pick

Still gives us three first round picks over 2 years, but taking them all in a "super draft" compared to a compromised draft next year where our first after bids could be around 10-15 and our second closer to 30.

Unfortunately the second part to that trade wouldn't be possible. If we trade our F1, we'd need a full set of picks in the other future rounds. Conversely, trading F2, F3 is allowed as long as a F1 is kept.

It's why I'd be wanting Norths F2 (at worst F3) to give us some flexibility should we trade our F1.

 

[St Neil]

Some more frustrating scenarios:

• North Melbourne trading F1 in for a mid-late first and getting Trainor or another KPD with their second pick instead
• North Melbourne trading 2 for 10 + 11 (or any other combination not including Pick 6) to Richmond

Richmond will not be trading-out both 10 & 11.

In fact, it’s unlikely they will trade-out either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Moving up for a targeted player makes sense but this draft is standout because it's an even one. Not because there is a few stand out players at the front end. I'm usually keen to get up the front end but this one isn't it to me.

Agree. Ultimately F1 to get from Langford to FOS.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Rubbish. Maybe read this thread. Bits and pieces .
Also can't stand this loser attitude about wanting to lose games.
One flag in a 150 years and we have people still with this culture.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Hope through rebuilding is our safe space.

And you’re in my safe space.

Now eff off.

 

[Joffaboy]

Hey JB. Why is it a loser attitude? Its actual fact. The Higgins kick moved us from 5&6 to 7&8.

Let’s not pretend it didn’t. And let’s not pretend that win will significantly change our culture.

I wanted us to win that game as much as anyone. But it may well prove costly. It also may not. Nothing to do with loser mentality.

Everything about loser mentality. Wanting to lose for some ethereal advantage in a draft for kids we won't know are any good for years.
A main reason we are a failure as a club. Thank God this batch of players and admin don't have this attitude.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joffaboy]

Hope through rebuilding is our safe space.

And you’re in my safe space.

Now eff off.

Safe space is typical. Off season is the best time for most Saints fans. No expectation.



On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Unfortunately the second part to that trade wouldn't be possible. If we trade our F1, we'd need a full set of picks in the other future rounds. Conversely, trading F2, F3 is allowed as long as a F1 is kept.

It's why I'd be wanting Norths F2 (at worst F3) to give us some flexibility should we trade our F1.

We would easily get an approval for this given how many firsts we have used recently

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Safe space is typical. Off season is the best time for most Saints fans. No expectation.



On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Maybe plenty of expectation, which is half my battle. Every goddamn year!

 

[saint66au]

Everything about loser mentality. Wanting to lose for some ethereal advantage in a draft for kids we won't know are any good for years.
A main reason we are a failure as a club. Thank God this batch of players and admin don't have this attitude.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes imagine if we'd won the final round of 2013 and had to pick Bont instead of Billings??? lol

 

[Joffaboy]

Maybe plenty of expectation, which is half my battle. Every goddamn year!

You are not on your own. They look good in the last two months of the year which heightens expectation even more.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Jack]

Everything about loser mentality. Wanting to lose for some ethereal advantage in a draft for kids we won't know are any good for years.
A main reason we are a failure as a club. Thank God this batch of players and admin don't have this attitude.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Why do you assume we all wanted to lose. I personally was rapt we beat a side I despise. But we won, and it factually cost us 2 places in the draft.

We haven’t had much luck in 150 years. The win against Carlton may prove to be another Milne bounce or Hawkins goal or a Scarlett toe poke. It also may not.

Let’s hope not.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Yes imagine if we'd won the final round of 2013 and had to pick Bont instead of Billings??? lol

Most likely would have taken Scharenberg or Aish

 

[OxSaint]

I know Langford has a lot of fans but his athleticism is a concern. I feel her is just as much chance of being a Devon Robertson type.

I am leaning Bo Allan’s way based on ceiling. Has power and his attack on the man/ball is really impressive. I think he is worth the risk. We need star power and I think Bo has that ceiling if he is developed as a midfielder.

A Smillie and Bo Allan double would be a good outcome or one of the above and Tauru. All three have star qualities we are crying out for.

 

[BarkerFan]

I guess one option would be 3 way with tigers and north:

Tigers in pick 2
Tigers out pick 10,18,20

Saints in pick 10, 20
Saints out pick 8

North in pick 8,18
North out pick 2

Would we slide from 8 to 10 for pick 20?
I guess it depends on who we are targeting

Would Tigers give 3 picks to get up to pick 2?
It would leave them with 1,2,6,11 compared to what they have now 1,6,10,11,18,20

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Here's a question......

If we pull the trigger on Bo Allen with 7 or 8 ..... would West Coast consider trading their pick 12 for our F1?

You would think they are very keen on Bo but ..... if he is gone ..... then maybe they would prefer to trade out?

Anyone know if they have any NGAs or F/S in their sights for next year?

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I guess one option would be 3 way with tigers and north:

Tigers in pick 2
Tigers out pick 10,18,20

Saints in pick 10, 20
Saints out pick 8

North in pick 8,18
North out pick 2

Would we slide from 8 to 10 for pick 20?
I guess it depends on who we are targeting

Would Tigers give 3 picks to get up to pick 2?
It would leave them with 1,2,6,11 compared to what they have now 1,6,10,11,18,20

Tigers would probably prefer to trade out 11 rather than 10 and likely 23 or 24 than 18 or 20

But for sure we would rather 10 than 11 and both us and North would prefer 18 & 20 picks rather than 23 & 24 picks

The seeds are there though

 

[jumperfan]

Here's a question......

If we pull the trigger on Bo Allen with 7 or 8 ..... would West Coast consider trading their pick 12 for our F1?

You would think they are very keen on Bo but ..... if he is gone ..... then maybe they would prefer to trade out?

Anyone know if they have any NGAs or F/S in their sights for next year?

They need kids now. I don't think they'd do that.

 

[TheJackal]

Moving up for a targeted player makes sense but this draft is standout because it's an even one. Not because there is a few stand out players at the front end. I'm usually keen to get up the front end but this one isn't it to me.

This draft being how it is may be the only reason why it is possible though.

FOS, Lalor, Ashcroft, Draper, Smith, Langford, Smillie, Reid, Tauru, Armstrong, cough Allan. There's 11 names likely to be taken in the first dozen or so.

It really depends on how we see the draft, which I know is stupidly obvious. I'll try to explain.

To me, FOS is your rolled gold Rolls Royce. Plug and go and I don't think we've had anyone like him in over a decade.

Lalor is a massive call to trade two firsts for, I see more Stringer than Dusty at the moment. But he is smashing through that ceiling faster than a feminist in a pants suit.

If Draper was a Victorian, I suggest he'd be rated even higher. I see more JHF in him than most probably do. He's got that ball winning ability but I just love how he can accelerate out of the contest.

Jagga, I'd like him at 8, obviously, but I'm just not in love. GAJ mixed with Darcy Parish for me, so I should be excited, but there's just something I can't put my finger on. I guess the narrative around FOS hurting you with 20 touches vs others at 30 is probably targeting Jagga. Some have said he plays for himself, not convinced it's that bad but I wonder if that helps him slide.

Smillie & Langford, both seem to be not the flavour of the month.

Langford isn't a shiny new thing, but his 2km time trial showed he is made for it. No nonsense, consistent performances, he's simply just very good without the flash. Least bust factor of probably everyone this year. Smillie feels like the opposite in a way, more bust factor, work ethic question marks - all pretty harsh I believe - his slide to us could be a thing of beauty.

Reid, sigh, I really don't know. I have flip flopped so much on him. I want to be sure that he would be a pure mid. I watched Hawthorn in top flight this year and their quick hands and footy IQ was incredible. Couldn't help but think this is what Reid brings! But I find it so hard not to get caught up in the crowd who are saying he might not be quick enough or a mid at next level.

Armstrong, doesn't really make sense for us. Tauru though, he just feels like a great get for where our list is at. Still feels wrong to not look for 2 mids though.

Which leaves Bo, flavour of the month Bo. He feels like a 'normal draft' pick 8 selection. If I was to take someone outside of those top mids, it would have to be for an elite kick at the very least, which is not Bo.

So I've waffled on for a while, and congrats if you've gotten this far!

I started off attempting to point out that we might absolutely be desperate for our rolled gold Rolls Royce in FOS, despite the evenness. Each player represents different needs, despite all being potentially a grade mids.

After writing what I wrote, I feel like we can't be too pick and they all sound bloody amazing. The club, however, might see it differently and might want one in particular to carry our midfield for 15 years.

 

[akaifu]

Fantastic video by Dylan Alexander.

I have never been able to put this midfield balance phenomenon into words but he's nailed it.

In terms of St Kilda, it is really easy to identify our imbalances and the voids in our midfield by following this framework.

2024 midfield:
Disrupter - Steele/Stocker
Engine - Windy/Ross
Strike - Sinclair/Henry/N/A
Hybrid - Clark/Pou/Dow/N/A

Our midfield from about rounds 1-18 was poor. Injuries to Henry and Dow made us look slow and lack a spark from midfield - we had no goalkicking strike mids. The only aspect of the midfield we had covered was Steele as the defensive mid, but at times he had to try to play as a hybrid engine mid to support Windy - in his first year as a full-time mid. Plus, the knee injury was hampering him. We pretty much had no fully functioning parts.

From about Round 18 onwards, when we started winning games, this was when we had Clark and Dow having some more continuity, and the addition of Pou was extremely effective. Both of these guys I'd consider hybrid mids - Clark being a disrupter + striker, while Pou was an engine + striker. This versatility allowed us to cover these three roles quite effectively, which allowed for a much more balanced midfield setup. With Clark being able to shift into the disrupter role and even the inclusion of Stocker, it allowed Steele to at times get forward as the striker to kick goals - this wasn't possible earlier in the year when it was the likes of Windy/Henry/Garcia/etc in the mids who are yet to develop the discipline to play the disruptor role. Dow was able to add glimpses of that striker burst from stoppage, but probably not consistent enough so I have him as an engine/hybrid mid who wins clearances and extracts the ball to the outside.

However, there are so many names. Not all can fit into the one lineup. We have now brought in Jack Macrae, which leads me to predict the 2025 midfield:
Disrupter - Steele/Clark
Engine - Macrae/Windy
Strike - Henry
Hybrid - Pou (engine/strike)

Still a bloody slow midfield, but the addition of Macrae instantly improves not only the quality of our personnel, but gives us more clarity on each midfielder's role. Steele remains as the disrupter and no longer has to try and pick up the slack left by an inexperienced engine. It also allows Pou to solely focus on being a striker - the guy to burst out of the front of stoppage and be our playmaker. Any engine-type work he does (which he will because he's a hard worker and a standard-setter) is an added bonus. Henry is in there for his sporadic on-ball stints when our midfield is being out-classed. Sinclair goes back to being a full-time half back so he's been removed.

The only problem with the above setup is that its a short to medium term midfield. Macrae and Steele won't be around for too much longer. Clark also is yet to establish himself as a long-term contributor to our next period of contention. This would lead to more imbalances.

So the ultimate point of this post is to evaluate how our future midfield will look like and what holes we need to fill with our 2 first rounders (whether its 7&8 or 2&teens or even 3 first rounders)

Starters:
Disrupter - Windy
Engine - Pou
Strike - ?
Hybrid - Pou (engine/strike)

Depth:
Disrupter - Stocker
Engine - ?
Strike - Garcia
Hybrid - Clark (engine/disrupter)

We could use depth in literally every role, but there's a clear hole in the striker role. Henry could develop to be that but I see him more as a half forward who can pinch-hit when required. Garcia is also in this conversation but he still has a long way to go whether its as an engine or striker. It could also be Pou, but he could also be an engine hybrid so it depends how we want to build around him. I think we need to be realistic with Windy and let him use his tenacity and two-way running to be more a hybrid/disrupter type - I think this role suits him because I believe he has limitations to his game that would prevent him from becoming an attacking mid.

So our needs are a depth engine mid who could potentially overtake Windy (I think we can hold off on this while Steele is still around), a starting 22 engine (to free Pou up as a mid/fwd) and a starting 22 striker.

The guys in the 2024 draft:
Lalor - Strike
FOS - Strike/Engine
Jagga - Engine
Draper - Engine
Reid - Engine
Langford - Engine/Hybrid
Smillie - Engine/Hybrid
Allan - Strike

No surprise we have interest in Allan who should be available at our second pick (anywhere from 7-11). If we can nab him as our striker that'd be a good result.

But the best case is to, imo, get FOS as our striker because he's the one that's played as a forward-half mid his entire life. He has the class, speed, goal-sense, burst, craft, and even overhead marking as a point of difference. Allan would have to do a Hayden Young

26

Hayden Young

Age

23

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

2star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

160.0

3star

which is possible, but not a likelihood as high as what FOS should be. Even then, his kicking would continue to be a detriment to his game on top of the lingering go-home factor.

If we secure FOS, it means we can get the leftover top-liner engine at 7 with our second pick. At least one of Jagga, Draper, Reid, Langford, Smillie will be available. Pair one of them up with FOS and run. This gives us:
Disrupter - Windy
Engine - Jagga/Smillie (i think pick 7 could be between these two if we get pick 2)
Strike - FOS
Hybrid - Pou

But obviously this is no guarantee. I touched on earlier about Pou potentially slotting into that engine position. That gives us:
Disrupter - Windy
Engine - Pou
Strike - Allan
Hybrid - FOS

Which is why I believe getting 2 & 7 is ideal. It comes at the cost of an F1, but if you can guarantee a starting midfield like that for the next 15 years with Clark, Dow, Garcia, Wilson etc all waiting in the wings, it might be worth the sacrifice.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Everything about loser mentality. Wanting to lose for some ethereal advantage in a draft for kids we won't know are any good for years.
A main reason we are a failure as a club. Thank God this batch of players and admin don't have this attitude.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

The thing that irks me about the last 8 games last season, is that we didn't play Heath & Keeler for example, who were doing quite well in the vfl. And Garcia deserved to be playing more, on his form too. If that meant losing to develope them quicker, then so be it.

 

[Jay Beast]

Gawd all this talk about pick swaps has me nervous af.

Can we please just take 7 & 8?
Fully expecting one of these will be a bust but the other will be a ripper.