List Mgmt. 2024 List Mgmt

[St Significant]

This is what really annoys me about our club. Let's get rid of an important player so that we get a compensation pick from the free agency deal. For God's sake didn't we learn from the Goddard scenario that it can all blow up in your face? We let BJ walk to the Dons because we wanted the compensation pick and by doing this we lost important leadership and f**** up the pick anyway. Please don't lose Battle just for the compensation pick - he is one of the best swingmen going around and the right age demographic for our future.

 

[Leap of Faith]

This is what really annoys me about our club. Let's get rid of an important player so that we get a compensation pick from the free agency deal. For God's sake didn't we learn from the Goddard scenario that it can all blow up in your face? We let BJ walk to the Dons because we wanted the compensation pick and by doing this we lost important leadership and f**** up the pick anyway. Please don't lose Battle just for the compensation pick - he is one of the best swingmen going around and the right age demographic for our future.

Is he an UFA or restricted?

 

[Miha]

Battle is UFA, if he wants to explore his options and go to a bigger club nothing we can do

 

[Verdun66]

We can all agree that we don’t have the high end talent. And we can’t get Free Agents who are guns. Not for love nor money. We almost always overpay for trades. Been a bit better the last couple of years.

Going along each year coming 9-12th just doesn’t do anything. We are way off a Premiership and we never get the great game changing players. You do need to go to the bottom and stock up on the high draft picks.

It depresses me enormously to lose so abjectly each week. My heart isn’t in it. But my mind is. We can’t say we are rebuilding. We can’t tank apparently. But what other way is there?

With Tassie on the horizon we have to do it now. I can’t see any other way of getting the players we need to have a tilt at a flag. I can see tanking ( for want of a better word) all over this.

And letting Battle go to get another 1st round draft pick? Why not? Very good player who we would rather keep. But in an apparent draft full of very good midfielders I can see the logic.

When we got rid of Goddard and Dal Santo we got compensation in the teens in weak drafts. And also picked poorly. I might be dreaming, but if North got a a pick up the top for Mackay, why not us? Finish down the bottom and get a couple of guns (hopefully our drafting has improved!). Maybe a a good second rounder. A steal here and there. Things start to look up.

Can only think we are tanking. We don’t want to say it, but we must be. Fighting tooth and nail to come tenth isn’t going to do it. I hate the pain, and almost can’t watch us. I would if we played more kids and I could see development.

Play the long term game and we might be in a sweet spot when Tassie start to monopolise the talent.

 

[luca77]

We can all agree that we don’t have the high end talent. And we can’t get Free Agents who are guns. Not for love nor money. We almost always overpay for trades. Been a bit better the last couple of years.

Going along each year coming 9-12th just doesn’t do anything. We are way off a Premiership and we never get the great game changing players. You do need to go to the bottom and stock up on the high draft picks.

It depresses me enormously to lose so abjectly each week. My heart isn’t in it. But my mind is. We can’t say we are rebuilding. We can’t tank apparently. But what other way is there?

With Tassie on the horizon we have to do it now. I can’t see any other way of getting the players we need to have a tilt at a flag. I can see tanking ( for want of a better word) all over this.

And letting Battle go to get another 1st round draft pick? Why not? Very good player who we would rather keep. But in an apparent draft full of very good midfielders I can see the logic.

When we got rid of Goddard and Dal Santo we got compensation in the teens in weak drafts. And also picked poorly. I might be dreaming, but if North got a a pick up the top for Mackay, why not us? Finish down the bottom and get a couple of guns (hopefully our drafting has improved!). Maybe a a good second rounder. A steal here and there. Things start to look up.

Can only think we are tanking. We don’t want to say it, but we must be. Fighting tooth and nail to come tenth isn’t going to do it. I hate the pain, and almost can’t watch us. I would if we played more kids and I could see development.

Play the long term game and we might be in a sweet spot when Tassie start to monopolise the talent.

I'd love to put it down to tanking. If it is, RTB deserves more credit for his acting skills! He genuinely looks frustrated.

 

[Verdun66]

I'd love to put it down to tanking. If it is, RTB deserves more credit for his acting skills! He genuinely looks frustrated.

All that media training! Going to take a lot of composure to keep it up. I just hear Joey saying stuff like Saints midfield is like taking a knife to a gunfight. Joey would talk to Ross. They keep saying they ‘know where we’re at’. So how do you fix it? Not coming mid table I’m afraid.

 

[phantom13]

This is what really annoys me about our club. Let's get rid of an important player so that we get a compensation pick from the free agency deal. For God's sake didn't we learn from the Goddard scenario that it can all blow up in your face? We let BJ walk to the Dons because we wanted the compensation pick and by doing this we lost important leadership and f**** up the pick anyway. Please don't lose Battle just for the compensation pick - he is one of the best swingmen going around and the right age demographic for our future.

The Goddard scenario was different though that was actually a very mature decision and discussion with players about the state the list and club were in and the fact it wouldnt serve them or us to stay on.

We ****ed it up but the thought process was sound.

Battle would suck to lose but all we can really do at this point is give him the cash and term he deserves so that if another club knocks hes got a really tough call to make if he wants to leave.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The Goddard scenario was different though that was actually a very mature decision and discussion with players about the state the list and club were in and the fact it wouldnt serve them or us to stay on.

We ****ed it up but the thought process was sound.

Battle would suck to lose but all we can really do at this point is give him the cash and term he deserves so that if another club knocks hes got a really tough call to make if he wants to leave.

So what do you (and others) think Battle is worth?

He's not a marquee player type you'd offer a 6 year contract.

Pies are looking at him to replace Nathan Murphy, Dee's to replace Tom McDonald or Adam Tomlinson - doubt anyone would normally offer any of those type of players huge contracts.

He'll do very well because he's a UFA but I can't see the value in signing him on a huge contract simply for the sake of keeping him.

4 × $700k ??

 

[phantom13]

So what do you (and others) think Battle is worth?

He's not a marquee player type you'd offer a 6 year contract.

Pies are looking at him to replace Nathan Murphy, Dee's to replace Tom McDonald or Adam Tomlinson - doubt anyone would normally offer any of those type of players huge contracts.

He'll do better because he's a UFA but I can't see the value in signing him on a huge contract simply for the sake of keeping him.

4 × $700k ??

Updated CBA and he’s 25.

I’d give him 6 x 800k personally and if I thought the market was gonna match it I’d probably bump it to $900k and front end it.

Who else are we paying?

 

[pebblesofsand]

Updated CBA and he’s 25.

I’d give him 6 x 800k personally and if I thought the market was gonna match it I’d probably bump it to $900k and front end it.

Who else are we paying?

You're probaly right about the $800k but 6 years - jeez its long time for a 3rd tall defender.

Whether we offer enough to keep him might very well depend on how things look with potential A grade mids like LDU McCluggage etc.

 

[phantom13]

You're probaly right about the $800k but 6 years - jeez its long time for a 3rd tall defender.

Whether we offer enough to keep him might very well depend on how things look with potential A grade mids like LDU McCluggage etc.

Yeh, I mean, maybe 5. Ultimately I’d just want the deal to force another team to match it for band 1 compo if he’s gonna walk. I think he’s “worth” that personally as well and if you front load it then it doesn’t really bite in later years.

It’s all opinion anyway

 

[FlyingV]

I come in peace… this talk about not having top end talent…
Wanganeen Milera
Phillipou
Owens
Henry (might be 22 or whatever)
Wilson
Windhager

That’s a pretty bloody good start. I nearly fell off my chair when Lloydy said Richmond have better under 21 talent. I mean that’s a rock solid core to build from.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I come in peace… this talk about not having top end talent…
Wanganeen Milera
Phillipou
Owens
Henry (might be 22 or whatever)
Wilson
Windhager

That’s a pretty bloody good start. I nearly fell off my chair when Lloydy said Richmond have better under 21 talent. I mean that’s a rock solid core to build from.

We have not earned the right for any positivity but Caminiti as well, the kid is doing very well for a 20 year old key forward.

 

[littlecreatures]

They’re all second guessing every move they make. Their heads are full with information, even Sinclair can’t make a decision anymore. Misson even said before the game we’re confused about what to do with ball in hand. Clearly over strategizing.

Or, I wonder just how much of this year is going to see this side stuck in an education and exploration phase. It was interesting hearing Ross talk about the Hawks game, we played a safe minimal turnover game, they were encouraged to get it moving direct to a contest, now we’re not finding easy numbers to stretch teams.

I keep going back to Freo last year, having a relatively young list and the teething issues around game style and consistency. The injuries start of this year and cutting to the list really had a disruptive impact.

Hopefully we can start to see more synergy and confidence by the end of this year, albeit difficult given how competitive the league is.

 

[littlecreatures]

I come in peace… this talk about not having top end talent…
Wanganeen Milera
Phillipou
Owens
Henry (might be 22 or whatever)
Wilson
Windhager

That’s a pretty bloody good start. I nearly fell off my chair when Lloydy said Richmond have better under 21 talent. I mean that’s a rock solid core to build from.

It is mate, strong foundation of young talent, but they’re still relatively raw and don’t have the polish or leadership around them, so it doesn’t take much to throw this side off and difficult to get them back to form.

 

[gringo2011]

this,hadnt thought of fiorini but him as well,have a look at rowston and sheldrick as well,rowstons not breaking into that midfield for an eternity,sheldrick a bit harder as he has already showed he can play at top level & im thinking parker is nearing the end at the swans

i would keep hunter if we are going to make a play for LDU

but 2 or 3 of those guys at same age as dow,a high mid draft pick at end of this season,windy wilson etc and fingers crossed one blockbuster free agent mid with the cash next season,bonus if we pick up a good quality mid today or tomorrow whenever it is & although i love the captain,he suddenly becomes expendable for a very good pick,or he puts his feet up a bit with us as part of a purring midfield,with crouch still in there,hunter might get a new lease of life,can only hope

get jones off the books to start with,seb as well,byrnes if your on money there

=well on way to fixing our midfield issues

Fiorini is a bit messy but good at accumulating. Probably not inside enough for me.

Ward is another. He's got to jump Newcombe, Worpol and Will Day who are all first picked. They also have a few depth options too.

 

[Premium]

It is mate, strong foundation of young talent, but they’re still relatively raw and don’t have the polish or leadership around them, so it doesn’t take much to throw this side off and difficult to get them back to form.

Exactly we have a very good young core and when you add the likes of King who is still 23 and unseen talent Keeler who to me is totally being played out of position playing in the backline and other young guys like Hastie , Hammer , Garcia , Hotton , Shoemaker we are well into getting a very strong squad - now it's just development and keep getting our best draft pick every year and how to entice some top end talent to help with development.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Updated CBA and he’s 25.

I’d give him 6 x 800k personally and if I thought the market was gonna match it I’d probably bump it to $900k and front end it.

Who else are we paying?

And while we are at it give him the captaincy

He has a hard edge and not a lot seems to phase him

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Or, I wonder just how much of this year is going to see this side stuck in an education and exploration phase. It was interesting hearing Ross talk about the Hawks game, we played a safe minimal turnover game, they were encouraged to get it moving direct to a contest, now we’re not finding easy numbers to stretch teams.

I keep going back to Freo last year, having a relatively young list and the teething issues around game style and consistency. The injuries start of this year and cutting to the list really had a disruptive impact.

Hopefully we can start to see more synergy and confidence by the end of this year, albeit difficult given how competitive the league is.

You can also hark back to Richmond ... now yes they did have two top 3 drafts picks in Martin & Cotchin but look how much time it took them to mature and realise their potential ... Cotchin drafted in 2007 .... Martin drafted in 2009 ...... Premiership 2017 .... they also had Rance (pick 18) & Riewoldt (pick 13) as bookends but even they were 27 & 28 by then

Bottom line it usually takes quite a bit of time for a team to mature and reach their potential

We already have a solid young core (King, Owens, Windy, Henry, Pou, Wanga, Wilson, Caminiti, Garcia, Hastie, Collard, and a few others like Keeler, Schoenmaker, Hotton) of course a few of thise might not make it but just need to keep adding to that over next 3 to 4 years .... of course top 10 picks will help with quality but you just can't afford to have any misses with those ... like we did with Billings, McCartin & Coffield ... I am still bullish on Clark

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Thank you Flying V for that small glimmer of hope and positivity.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

They’re all second guessing every move they make. Their heads are full with information, even Sinclair can’t make a decision anymore. Misson even said before the game we’re confused about what to do with ball in hand. Clearly over strategizing.

To the point of being overcoached

 

[FlyingV]

It is mate, strong foundation of young talent, but they’re still relatively raw and don’t have the polish or leadership around them, so it doesn’t take much to throw this side off and difficult to get them back to form.

Yeah totally agree, that’s why I’m just shocked at how shallow some of the analysis has been by members in the media about the saints. Lloyd and Cornes’ calls flawed me. There’s plenty of young talent acquired in recent drafts, which if anything shows you are on the right track with recruitment.

Anyway, I’m a huge advocate for what you’ve done in recent drafts, mainly Wanganeen and Wilson. Wanted both of them, clearly there is a trend where you are prioritising really strong runners… which is essential in todays game… Ross gets that.

I’ll leave you be!

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Media are sticking the boots in cause we made them look like fools last year by making Finals .... Lyon at times can also rub the Media up the wrong way so they are having their day in the sun

 

[Premium]

Fiorini is a bit messy but good at accumulating. Probably not inside enough for me.

Ward is another. He's got to jump Newcombe, Worpol and Will Day who are all first picked. They also have a few depth options too.

To me if we get anyone he has to be top line - Warner would be the one , but we have little chance on getting him.

But if they are talking about a war chest well they need to use it on someone like that.
It is a well known fact Bailey Smith wants out of the Dogs , Oliver would most probably want out where he is - but his contract is over the top with his mental state.
There are also guys like Perkins which last year the media was saying he wanted out.

The managers would know if there player is not happy where he is and hopefully our trade team is looking at everyone and are ready to pounce when the right guy surfaces.

We are in a bad situation at the moment with our best 2 mids in Steele not impacting the game he was a few years ago and being around 29 he will not get any faster and the same can be said about Crouch who could even pull the pin next year knowing he is going to be 31.

This leaves us with no real leadership in the midfield and as we have seen Steele is not really the leader we expected he would turn into.
Don't get me wrong Steele is a very good player but every year the kids are getting bigger , faster , stronger and the players of the past are not able to keep up.

You only have to look at Seb Ross , he was our club champion a few years running but in all reality - he has been left behind because he never had the impact that is required to compete with the best and I really feel the same is happening to Steele.

The stats may look good on some of our players but when your passing the ball sideways and backwards you rack up the possessions.

The player I would be looking at is Finn Callaghan , ex- Sandringham Dragons player out of contract in 2025 and would be gettable because of the go home factor , just turn 21 and looks the goods already.

​

 

[StFly]

Media are sticking the boots in cause we made them look like fools last year by making Finals .... Lyon at times can also rub the Media up the wrong way so they are having their day in the sun

Tend to not care about media, their job is to tell a story and they DGAF about that story so long as it makes them a relevant talking point.

In any event. is kind of way RTB has and continues to be on record that it's the older firm not pushing the target, yet it is the younger group that is largely growing together that is reaching towards those expectations. As we can all no doubt assume, them being young and with so many people in ears at this juncture in careers, you'll have dips and troughs along the way regardless of how good preparation might look at times.

It's for me why;

Exactly we have a very good young core and when you add the likes of King who is still 23 and unseen talent Keeler who to me is totally being played out of position playing in the backline and other young guys like Hastie , Hammer , Garcia , Hotton , Shoemaker we are well into getting a very strong squad - now it's just development and keep getting our best draft pick every year and how to entice some top end talent to help with development.

This is more poignant with this group than ever if we want to be counted as a consistent aspirant for finals and flag contentions, as this is the nucleus that will set the next standards and continue that growth cycle with new ideas, new ways to do old things and say someone like Nas who buddied up with Wood to feel comfortable, could then be that sounding board to just be comfortable when away from everything you knew before.

Also, I of course agree that Keeler is out of position in the defense, but you know me, I salivate at him and Ming in F50 with a competent midfield set up...