List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[Vader]

The AFL Draft Booklet contains a lot of useful information about the draft & list lodgement mechanics.

Here are some key/interesting points:

• Delisted players have until Wed 13th Nov to nominate for the draft - they can nominate for either the ND/PSD/RD or just PSD/RD. The only List Lodgement date before this is on Oct 31st, so it's safe to assume that this is when the delistings will be announced for players we're moving to the rookie list.
• The games threshold applies to 4th & 5th years for rookies (it was previously unclear if it applied to the 4th, or just the 5th). Turray is the only Cat A rookie on our list who is below the games threshold.
• A club may apply to the AFL to transfer a player or players from its Rookie List on to its Primary List on the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to the Telstra AFL Draft, or under the Long-Term Injury Rule or at any time between the Telstra AFL Draft and the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to the Telstra AFL Pre Season Draft if an uncontracted listed player was deleted from that club’s list

My take on the last point is that the rookie upgrade can take place in either List Lodgement 1 (31st Oct) or List Lodgement 2 (22nd Nov). If we do it in LL1, then we'll only be able to take 2 picks into the ND. If we delay until LL2, we can take a 3rd pick into the ND for points matching a Welsh bid (we can't use it to select a player).

 

[Vader]

Key Dates from the 2024 AFL Draft Handbook:

Thursday 31st October
List Lodgement 1
F/S and Academy Bidding Nominations close
Out of Contract AFL Listed Player Draft Nominations close
International Scholarship Inclusion on Rookie List closes

Wednesday 13th November
Draft Nominations close
Draft Nominations for Delisted Players close
Non-Retained Rookie Draft Nominations close
Players Not Registered for 3 Years Inclusion on Rookie List closes
International Players Inclusion on Rookie List closes

Wednesday 20th & Thursday 21st November
National Draft

Friday 22nd November
List Lodgement 2
Northern Academy, NGA Academy, F/S Rookie Nominations close
Pre-Season Draft
Rookie Draft

Monday 25th November
Final List Lodgement

It's not totally clear from the handbook, but I'm fairly sure that LL2 occurs before the start of the PSD.

 

[LoBu]

The narrative from Gold Coast regarding their pick 12/13 is interesting, "We're keen to deal with the clubs that we're trying to find some players from. That would be our first preference," Gold Coast list manager Craig Cameron.

To me, this confirms that the only reason we got pick 13 last year was because we were willing to take Burgess, the trade that was Burgess+14 for 23+26 - which rates Burgess at 43.

While 43 is overs for Burgess, it extracted pick 14 which of course was bundled up for Curtin, giving Burgess value beyond his own.

 

[Chances Are]

Re height. What was Wayne Carey's height.

 

[Chances Are]

Re ANB trade. I've always thought he was worth a 3rd-4th rounder due to his age. However the fact he was contracted for 2 years makes 28 a reasonable price to pay. OOC and it is way overs.

 

[jenny61_99]

He may or he may not, not every man keeps growing up to the age of 21, some top out in their mid to late teens like most girls do, it's the genetic luck of the draw

My son’s friends (and him as well) kept growing. There wasn’t one that didn’t grow in the three years after school.

 

[NTRabbit]

My son’s friends (and him as well) kept growing. There wasn’t one that didn’t grow in the three years after school.

I grew after high school, plenty of boys I went to high school with never added another inch, it made for a funny first reunion.

 

[NTRabbit]

Re height. What was Wayne Carey's height.

Carey was 192, Lockett was 191, Modra was 188, Dunstall was 188, and Ablett was 185, but they played so long ago there's no practical comparison that can be made in athleticism, physicality, or skill.

 

[spenze]

I kinda can't believe Elliott Himmelberg will be on an AFL list for at least 11 years

Good luck to him, if he's been smart he should have been able to set himself up that he doesn't have to work as hard after footy

 

[fuic08]

My son’s friends (and him as well) kept growing. There wasn’t one that didn’t grow in the three years after school.

Lucky fellas, I stopped by year 10

 

[FR0GGY]

I don't think we overpaid given he had 2 years on his contract. We did the fair thing considering at this point the Demons seem to be the big losers re the origin of the original pick and given McAdam's 2024 season.

3 years apparently?

 

[FR0GGY]

The narrative from Gold Coast regarding their pick 12/13 is interesting, "We're keen to deal with the clubs that we're trying to find some players from. That would be our first preference," Gold Coast list manager Craig Cameron.

What? Doesn’t that say they are dealing with clubs who they want players from ie Richmond and Collingwood?

 

[simmo97]

3 years apparently?

He had 2 years left and we added a extra 2 yrs to his contract.

the fresh contract will see the 27-year-old remain a Demon until at least the end of 2026, taking him through to 12 years of service in the red and blue.

Neal-Bullen signs three-year deal

Alex Neal-Bullen will remain a Demon for a further three years

www.melbournefc.com.au

 

[FR0GGY]

He had 2 years left and we added a extra 2 yrs to his contract.

the fresh contract will see the 27-year-old remain a Demon until at least the end of 2026, taking him through to 12 years of service in the red and blue.

Neal-Bullen signs three-year deal

Alex Neal-Bullen will remain a Demon for a further three years

www.melbournefc.com.au

Yeah right, a link I just posted from trade radio was saying 3 years left

 

[arsene wenger1]

Interesting convo on FF heights and how its shifted. I've been wondering for a while whether the shift towards these giants as permanent FFs is actually benefitting teams as much as they think it is.

Or is it just getting a bunch of super tall, bad kickers more shots on goals then they really deserve.

You think to the top 10 goalkickers in history, and they are almost exclusively super talented, mid sized, leading players.
Lockett: 191cm
Coventry: 183cm
Dunstall: 188cm
Franklin: 199cm
Wade: 188cm
Ablett: 185cm
Titus: 175cm
Lloyd: 192cm
Mathews: 178cm
McKenna 191cm

Go further down the list and the really tall players start to pop up a bit, but perhaps it’s time for a renaissance for the mid size full forward (who can actually kick straight).

The mid sized FF are essential to a well balanced forward line. This is why I was actually disappointed to see mcadam leave at the time. You look at the Langford, stringer, degoey, waterman, membrey types. Even curnow isn’t that tall.

 

[Freomaniac]

Re height. What was Wayne Carey's height.

192 cm

 

[GreyCrow]

Not sure if anyone else is thinking the same way as me but our current best midfield and wings would be something like the below:

Mids - Crouch, Soligo/Dawson , Rankine/ANB, Berry
Wings - Cumming, Soligo / Dawson, Shol.

We also have to add Peatling & pick 4 into that mix with Curtin, Dowling, taylor, Edwards, Nank (wing?) etc coming.

To me it means that as everyone knows that Harry won't be playing again. Smith as well. Paying out Smith's contract I assume is difficult unless he retires.

What about Shol, I would trade him. Just had his best season but is ultimately going to slip down the order with these young kids coming in. Opens up another spot for us to play a younger kid too.

We absolutely should be encouraging players to explore options.
Laird, Butts, Berry should be high on the list. As should Chayce and Schoenberg.
They should all be looking for opportunities elsewhere.

I understand the logical reasoning behind the desire to keep players - in case of injury and not having draft picks but mostly to boost the sanfl team

I agree on Harry - he will ( or should) be break glass type player. We must prioritise others. If he is happy doing so then ok but explore your options Harry

I think some players have played their last game of AFL for us and some should seek elsewhere

 

[Grenville]

Carey was 192, Lockett was 191, Modra was 188, Dunstall was 188, and Ablett was 185, but they played so long ago there's no practical comparison that can be made in athleticism, physicality, or skill.

Thats true & the game has changed so much it really is hard to compare. If you could take them and plug them into FF in todays game, how do you think they'd go? Not kicking bags of 10 like the good ole' days, but still Coleman contenders yearly I think.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

He’s also a really good player - with potential to be elite.

He’s shown he can be a genuine match winner , now we need to harness it

Of course he needs to do his bit too in certain areas , fitness , endurance , consistency, attack on the ball and oppo

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Interesting to hear that most media talking heads are saying we got the better end of the deal

I still think 28 was probably a bit of an overpay (IMO he’s worth somewhere between 30-35), but given that pick will slide out to 32-ish on draft night I’m not overly fussed

At some point you come to the realisation that no matter what we pay for trades this board won’t be happy

We’ve definitely overpaid at times but the analysis seems to be the same no matter what


Never saw too many people jumping with absolute joy with getting Dawson for a late teens pick either because they didn’t realise what they were getting

It’s all a grain of salt

I’m annoyed if we don’t have a pick 25-50 in this draft though , hope we trade back in but it’s looking more and more unlikely

Hamish loves going against the grain , he will prob load up in next years draft

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I grew after high school, plenty of boys I went to high school with never added another inch, it made for a funny first reunion.

I think the impact on the amount of cm Welsh grows from here compared to importance of other things he needs to do is minuscule

Endurance > height in terms of what will make his career

He’s a very dangerous forward that plays in explosive patches like a Jake Stringer , similar to Jake if he can get fitter and be more consistent he can impact games more often and for longer

Has serious explosive speed off the mark and is very powerful

 

[Crows I Am]

I'm not Scorpus, but here's what I have.

Depth Chart

TALL DEFENDER
Nick Murray
Josh Worrell
Dan Curtin
Mark Keane
Jordon Butts
James Borlase

MIDSIZED DEFENDERS
Isaac Cumming
Max Michalanney
Rory Laird
Mitch Hinge
Luke Nankervis
Wayne Milera
Hugh Bond
Chayce Jones
Oscar Ryan
Brodie Smith

MIDFIELDERS
Jordan Dawson
Izak Rankine
Matt Crouch
Jake Soligo
James Peatling
Lachlan Sholl
Sam Berry
Zac Taylor
Billy Dowling
Charlie Edwards
Harry Schoenberg

MIDSIZED FORWARD
Ben Keays
Alex Neal Bullen
Josh Rachele
Lachlan Murphy
Luke Pedlar
Brayden Cook

TALL FORWARD
Riley Thilthorpe
Darcy Fogarty
Taylor Walker
Chris Burgess

RUCKMAN
Reilly O’Brien
Toby Murray
Kieran Strachan

Thanks for the summary.

So looking at that, our next priorities should be adding ruck depth (ready made back up and a young development ruck) and a genuine small forward.

Probably then need to look at adding a young key forward and potentially a young key defender.

Midfield has a lot of depth, especially once we add another option with pick 4. We are well stocked with mid sized defenders and forwards too.

 

[Betts are off]

I think the impact on the amount of cm Welsh grows from here compared to importance of other things he needs to do is minuscule

Endurance > height in terms of what will make his career

He’s a very dangerous forward that plays in explosive patches like a Jake Stringer , similar to Jake if he can get fitter and be more consistent he can impact games more often and for longer

Has serious explosive speed off the mark and is very powerful

Scott Welsh had a underrated knack of getting free of his opponent in a crowded forward line. I look forward to seeing is Tyler is as creative as his old man in that regard.

I feel like he looks more gifted in terms of that power/explosiveness. Fingers crossed he can couple that with some inherited forward craft. Could be a fun combination in time.

 

[rabidcrow]

I think the impact on the amount of cm Welsh grows from here compared to importance of other things he needs to do is minuscule

Endurance > height in terms of what will make his career

He’s a very dangerous forward that plays in explosive patches like a Jake Stringer , similar to Jake if he can get fitter and be more consistent he can impact games more often and for longer

Has serious explosive speed off the mark and is very powerful

Hope we have learnt from how Fog was developed physically. Burgess changed his program to focus on burst and power rather than size. And has done wonders for Fog


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[crow2crow]

well we not getting wright

i would really like bartel as a direct report to silvers to oversee everything. i think he would fit better culturally and seems to have a better handle on SA anyway. loves FUIC which is a good start...