List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[GreyCrow]

Disagree re Berry, agree wholeheartedly with Smith.

How many games in the main side will Berry play?

I was also happy for him to move on - both for return on value and list management

 

[crow2crow]

How many games in the main side will Berry play?

I was also happy for him to move on - both for return on value and list management

exactly he wont play many IMO either

I think we've seen his tricks and you cant carry him in a side with crouch and laird and they're both ahead of him. He's not even a replacement for crouch.

 

[Danger in Texas]

As far as the actual trade period goes we did very well IMO.

Bringing in Cumming as a FA was a great get, and I think the injuries he suffered in 2024 probably helped us get him over the line more than anything. Played over 60 games in the 3 years leading up to 2024. Is not injury prone. Kicking and speed are weapons, and unlike the majority of “outside” players, he’s actually a really strong mark overhead AND a really strong tackler. Love him as a player and I think he’ll thrive at a club where he can play in his most suitable position (which was taken by Whitfield at GWS).

Neal-Bullen is a premiership player and natural leader. He CAN play as that defensive half forward, but he can also shift into the midfield and play as a stopper in there (he did this against N Daicos in 2024 and kept him to his lowest possession count of the season). This is a huge addition for us, as the rest of our mids really struggle to lock down the stars of the comp in any meaningful way.

Peatling is a stoppage mid with pace and agility, who has also shown a somewhat surprising ability around the goals. When you have the likes of Crouch, Dawson and Berry (and to a lesser extent because he’s probably been binned from the midfield, Laird) in your squad, you absolutely need to inject some speed and agility into that STOPPAGE mix. Huge upside here too as the potential has been largely capped by copping the sub vest regularly and being stuck behind the likes of Callaghan, Kelly, Coniglio and Green.


The separate point that many have tried to make, and that I wholeheartedly agree with, is that SOME of the list management decisions in the lead up to this trade period were poor.

Retaining Smith is an error. Whether he hit his infamous “games played trigger” in Round 8ish or some time later in the season, I don’t care, the inclusion of such a trigger was bad list management, and continuing to play Smith in the side after his horrendous form in the first month was terrible coaching / selection. Side note - I remember one poster exclaiming “who’s to say that Smith didn’t hit the trigger in 2023?” - that would literally be the most stupid contract trigger in the history of professional sports, so yep, I guess we can’t count that out!

The key point is, whoever negotiated that games played trigger into Smith’s contract made an error - maybe the requirement should have been more games than it was in 2024, maybe it should have been based more on 2024 FORM, 2024 B&F votes, I’m not sure (or maybe contract triggers in general for over 30s are stupid), but if you’re sitting back now thinking “yep, Brodie Smith on the list in 2025, that’s great and I’m all for it” you’re kidding yourself. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 team for 2024. The writing was well and truly on the wall in the last 6-8 weeks of 2023, and anyone who didn’t notice wasn’t paying attention. With the arrival of Cumming and the continual growth of guys like Nankervis, Ryan etc, it just makes Smith’s position on the list even more pointless.

Retaining Berry is almost as pointless as Smith now that we’ve brought in Peatling. Berry has proven time and time again that he’s incapable of accumulating the ball enough to be a full time mid, AND a poor user by foot, AND fumbly by hand, AND incapable of playing anywhere else on the ground (note: I would never question his tackling, it’s great. But yeah, if that’s your one wood, you’re extremely limited). Collingwood were knocking (T Mitchell is finished, and they’re likely just wanting some depth who can play as a sub / be a decent backup. The key is they don’t have guys like Peatling / Dawson / Crouch / Curtin / Taylor who make far more sense at AFL level than Berry). Whatever we would have received in a trade (even if pick 45 odd) would be better than what Sam Berry will bring to the AFC in 2025-26 for mine. Decent chance at a Magarey I suppose. If he’s in the Round 1 AFL team, it’s only because we have multiple midfield injuries. You can’t have all 3 of Crouch, Dawson and Berry in the same midfield, and it’s blatant who the odd man out is.


The reason I highlight Smith and Berry is that in a draft that is touted as one of the best ever and bats very deep, even having something like, say, picks 35 and 48 (easy to manufacture with a Berry trade plus just not trading with Melbourne for their future 3rd, plus maybe a small future pick to 2024 pick upgrade) to replace these two on our list would have given us a really good shot at getting a couple of good prospects in, with one of them almost definitely a small forward (there’s an abundance in this draft pool), and the other either a ruck or a “best available” type.

Point of my story - Berry and Smith offer nothing moving forward in terms of list need or actual production from those specific players. 2 picks between 30 and 50 would have offered something, especially in a deep draft loaded with nimble small forwards to address that CLEAR list need (plus whatever else we could pick up in there). I guarantee you we’ll get into the 40s in this draft and there’ll be some unbelievable bargains to be had that draft watchers “can’t belieeeeeve” are still there.


I’m not trying to rant or shit on the club by saying any of that, that’s just the reality from where I sit.


Contract structure for Smith that enabled an extension despite him displaying arguably the worst AFL form of any player on our list and being a million years old: F minus

Offering Berry a 2 year deal instead of trading him: F

Trade period in isolation from the above errors which took place before the trade period and therefore handcuffed us into taking pick 4 and Welsh only at the draft: A

Pretty excellent summary

I think part of the problem with Berry is that Nicks has already shown he trusts him, so is likely to be first choice backup mid when there is an injury - ahead of others with higher ceilings

I guess the hope is that Edwards, Taylor and co make it impossible to pick Berry ahead of them

 

[GreyCrow]

exactly he wont play many IMO either

I think we've seen his tricks and you cant carry him in a side with crouch and laird and they're both ahead of him. He's not even a replacement for crouch.

Well I also disagree on the last

I guess it depends on your future plans for Crouch. But even then you move past Berry and bring in another - whether that be Edwards, Pick 4 , etc

 

[Mutineer]

How many games in the main side will Berry play?

I was also happy for him to move on - both for return on value and list management

Good for you, I thought Sam really started to shopw he belonged his last few games especially against Sydney in his last game when he was our best mid against Sydney's stacked midfield.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Good for you, I thought Sam really started to shopw he belonged his last few games especially against Sydney in his last game when he was our best mid against Sydney's stacked midfield.

Nah

Berry is purely depth

 

[Mutineer]

Nah

Berry is purely depth

Opinions be like....

 

[crow2crow]

Well I also disagree on the last

I guess it depends on your future plans for Crouch. But even then you move past Berry and bring in another - whether that be Edwards, Pick 4 , etc

Pick 4 will be in from round 1 because its going to be speed and class we dont have - something would have to go wrong for that not to happen

and yes I would rather see Pedlar Edwards or even Taylor replace crouch over time. but thats just me

 

[Danger in Texas]

Good for you, I thought Sam really started to shopw he belonged his last few games especially against Sydney in his last game when he was our best mid against Sydney's stacked midfield.

Wasn’t the 2nd showdown (2nd last game for the season) the one where he fumbled basically every second possession?

 

[ams4crows]

Pick 4 will be in from round 1 because its going to be speed and class we dont have - something would have to go wrong for that not to happen

and yes I would rather see Pedlar Edwards or even Taylor replace crouch over time. but thats just me

Draper if we pick him has a back issue currently, I don't think we'd rush him in to be honest. Peatling will be the pace we need in the middle until pick 4 is ready

 

[Mutineer]

Wasn’t the 2nd showdown (2nd last game for the season) the one where he fumbled basically every second possession?

Our best mid against Sydney, 22 disposals at 81.8% disposal efficiency, 6 clearances, 6 i50's, 7 score involvements, 303 metres gained and a goal the game after.

 

[Cromulant]

Pretty excellent summary

I think part of the problem with Berry is that Nicks has already shown he trusts him, so is likely to be first choice backup mid when there is an injury - ahead of others with higher ceilings

I guess the hope is that Edwards, Taylor and co make it impossible to pick Berry ahead of them

I don't necessarily mind him as a backup. He's shown he can play somewhere near the level and you know you'll get 100% out of him when he does get a crack.

But backup is all

 

[Danger in Texas]

Our best mid against Sydney, 22 disposals at 81.8%, 6 clearances, 6 i50's, 7 score involvements, 303 metres gained and a goal the game after

Just don’t trust him enough game-to-game at this point, one game he can be pretty clean and effective, the next he fumbles every second touch

I think we’ve gotta prioritise the development of Taylor and Edwards now, given they seem to have a better combo of footballing qualities. Peatling hopefully becoming our equivalent of Rowbottom/Drew doesn’t help Berry’s case for consistent selection, either

 

[MRB37]

As far as the actual trade period goes we did very well IMO.

Bringing in Cumming as a FA was a great get, and I think the injuries he suffered in 2024 probably helped us get him over the line more than anything. Played over 60 games in the 3 years leading up to 2024. Is not injury prone. Kicking and speed are weapons, and unlike the majority of “outside” players, he’s actually a really strong mark overhead AND a really strong tackler. Love him as a player and I think he’ll thrive at a club where he can play in his most suitable position (which was taken by Whitfield at GWS).

Neal-Bullen is a premiership player and natural leader. He CAN play as that defensive half forward, but he can also shift into the midfield and play as a stopper in there (he did this against N Daicos in 2024 and kept him to his lowest possession count of the season). This is a huge addition for us, as the rest of our mids really struggle to lock down the stars of the comp in any meaningful way.

Peatling is a stoppage mid with pace and agility, who has also shown a somewhat surprising ability around the goals. When you have the likes of Crouch, Dawson and Berry (and to a lesser extent because he’s probably been binned from the midfield, Laird) in your squad, you absolutely need to inject some speed and agility into that STOPPAGE mix. Huge upside here too as the potential has been largely capped by copping the sub vest regularly and being stuck behind the likes of Callaghan, Kelly, Coniglio and Green.


The separate point that many have tried to make, and that I wholeheartedly agree with, is that SOME of the list management decisions in the lead up to this trade period were poor.

Retaining Smith is an error. Whether he hit his infamous “games played trigger” in Round 8ish or some time later in the season, I don’t care, the inclusion of such a trigger was bad list management, and continuing to play Smith in the side after his horrendous form in the first month was terrible coaching / selection. Side note - I remember one poster exclaiming “who’s to say that Smith didn’t hit the trigger in 2023?” - that would literally be the most stupid contract trigger in the history of professional sports, so yep, I guess we can’t count that out!

The key point is, whoever negotiated that games played trigger into Smith’s contract made an error - maybe the requirement should have been more games than it was in 2024, maybe it should have been based more on 2024 FORM, 2024 B&F votes, I’m not sure (or maybe contract triggers in general for over 30s are stupid), but if you’re sitting back now thinking “yep, Brodie Smith on the list in 2025, that’s great and I’m all for it” you’re kidding yourself. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 team for 2024. The writing was well and truly on the wall in the last 6-8 weeks of 2023, and anyone who didn’t notice wasn’t paying attention. With the arrival of Cumming and the continual growth of guys like Nankervis, Ryan etc, it just makes Smith’s position on the list even more pointless.

Retaining Berry is almost as pointless as Smith now that we’ve brought in Peatling. Berry has proven time and time again that he’s incapable of accumulating the ball enough to be a full time mid, AND a poor user by foot, AND fumbly by hand, AND incapable of playing anywhere else on the ground (note: I would never question his tackling, it’s great. But yeah, if that’s your one wood, you’re extremely limited). Collingwood were knocking (T Mitchell is finished, and they’re likely just wanting some depth who can play as a sub / be a decent backup. The key is they don’t have guys like Peatling / Dawson / Crouch / Curtin / Taylor who make far more sense at AFL level than Berry). Whatever we would have received in a trade (even if pick 45 odd) would be better than what Sam Berry will bring to the AFC in 2025-26 for mine. Decent chance at a Magarey I suppose. If he’s in the Round 1 AFL team, it’s only because we have multiple midfield injuries. You can’t have all 3 of Crouch, Dawson and Berry in the same midfield, and it’s blatant who the odd man out is.


The reason I highlight Smith and Berry is that in a draft that is touted as one of the best ever and bats very deep, even having something like, say, picks 35 and 48 (easy to manufacture with a Berry trade plus just not trading with Melbourne for their future 3rd, plus maybe a small future pick to 2024 pick upgrade) to replace these two on our list would have given us a really good shot at getting a couple of good prospects in, with one of them almost definitely a small forward (there’s an abundance in this draft pool), and the other either a ruck or a “best available” type.

Point of my story - Berry and Smith offer nothing moving forward in terms of list need or actual production from those specific players. 2 picks between 30 and 50 would have offered something, especially in a deep draft loaded with nimble small forwards to address that CLEAR list need (plus whatever else we could pick up in there). I guarantee you we’ll get into the 40s in this draft and there’ll be some unbelievable bargains to be had that draft watchers “can’t belieeeeeve” are still there.


I’m not trying to rant or shit on the club by saying any of that, that’s just the reality from where I sit.


Contract structure for Smith that enabled an extension despite him displaying arguably the worst AFL form of any player on our list and being a million years old: F minus

Offering Berry a 2 year deal instead of trading him: F

Trade period in isolation from the above errors which took place before the trade period and therefore handcuffed us into taking pick 4 and Welsh only at the draft: A

The point usually with a games played trigger is the player playing well enough that they deserve their spot in the side, so them triggering another contract is almost just business taking care of itself.

I am assuming it wasn't negotiated on the thought that Smith could be playing absolutely atrocious football that would make a team think twice about re-contracting him and the coach would ignore it and play him anyway.

 

[Mutineer]

Just don’t trust him enough game-to-game at this point, one game he can be pretty clean and effective, the next he fumbles every second touch

I think we’ve gotta prioritise the development of Taylor and Edwards now, given they seem to have a better combo of footballing qualities. Peatling hopefully becoming our equivalent of Rowbottom/Drew doesn’t help Berry’s case for consistent selection, either

Neither have gone past him yet and until they do he should be getting games ahead of them.

Taylor in that Sydney game had similar T.O.G. but nowhere near the output.

 

[PeterSalt]

Retaining Smith is an error. Whether he hit his infamous “games played trigger” in Round 8ish or some time later in the season, I don’t care, the inclusion of such a trigger was bad list management, and continuing to play Smith in the side after his horrendous form in the first month was terrible coaching / selection. Side note - I remember one poster exclaiming “who’s to say that Smith didn’t hit the trigger in 2023?” - that would literally be the most stupid contract trigger in the history of professional sports, so yep, I guess we can’t count that out!

The key point is, whoever negotiated that games played trigger into Smith’s contract made an error - maybe the requirement should have been more games than it was in 2024, maybe it should have been based more on 2024 FORM, 2024 B&F votes, I’m not sure (or maybe contract triggers in general for over 30s are stupid), but if you’re sitting back now thinking “yep, Brodie Smith on the list in 2025, that’s great and I’m all for it” you’re kidding yourself. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 team for 2024. The writing was well and truly on the wall in the last 6-8 weeks of 2023, and anyone who didn’t notice wasn’t paying attention. With the arrival of Cumming and the continual growth of guys like Nankervis, Ryan etc, it just makes Smith’s position on the list even more pointless.

What annoys me the most about the Smith situation is the fact match committee kept selecting him. It was obvious for weeks that he was out of form - like from round 1 until he was dropped in round 12 or 13 - it was absurd

Had he been dropped back earlier to find a bit of form and confidence, it may have been a far better outcome

By the time he was dropped a large segment of the supporter base were hanging sh*t on him. Yet it wasn't his fault he was continually being selected

And I don't think that was fair on him. He's been an absolute ripping player and person for this club and he deserved better. Whether or not coping a hiding on social media etc affected his confidence, I have no idea. But none of us live in a vacuum

It just reeks of another sh*t decision by the leaders in the football department

 

[Cromulant]

Neither have gone past him yet and until they do he should be getting games ahead of them.

Taylor in that Sydney game had similar T.O.G. but nowhere near the output.

13 touches and 3.1

I'd take that from a guy with a handful of games.

 

[Crow till I die]

Just don’t trust him enough game-to-game at this point, one game he can be pretty clean and effective, the next he fumbles every second touch

I think we’ve gotta prioritise the development of Taylor and Edwards now, given they seem to have a better combo of footballing qualities. Peatling hopefully becoming our equivalent of Rowbottom/Drew doesn’t help Berry’s case for consistent selection, either

He is miles better and much more impactful than Murphy and can drift forward and kick a goal so if he could find consistency then he should be in the greater midfield rotation. The problem i see is that with pick 4 top end mid incoming, we have him (pick 4), Rankine, Soligo, Rachele, Dawson, Peatling, Taylor, Edwards and possibly Curtin to fit into the rotations. Thats not counting Crouch, Laird, Pedlar and Dowling. We should have traded him purely as opportunity may become very limited on ball where he is best suited.

For his own career, a move now may have suited both parties

 

[Danger in Texas]

Neither have gone past him yet and until they do he should be getting games.

Taylor in that Sydney game had similar T.O.G. but nowhere near the output.

To be fair, Taylor had 0% CBA time in that game, with Berry having 67%. Easier to get more of the ball in the trenches

What’s clear to me is that both those guys have higher ceilings than Berry does. I don’t think any of the three are in the best 22 to start next year, and given we’ve added a mid with a quality defensive game and better offensive game to our starting rotation, we’re better to prioritise those with higher potential (maybe less so Edwards if he’s not really impacting at SANFL level)

 

[crow2crow]

To be fair, Taylor had 0% CBA time in that game, with Berry having 67%. Easier to get more of the ball in the trenches

What’s clear to me is that both those guys have higher ceilings than Berry does. I don’t think any of the three are in the best 22 to start next year, and given we’ve added a mid with a quality defensive game and better offensive game to our starting rotation, we’re better to prioritise those with higher potential (maybe less so Edwards if he’s not really impacting at SANFL level)

Edwards would look better with the real bulls around him. by the time he was chucked in sanfl midfield there were so many squad injuries he was 18 and all alone. but he has speed and good kick.

Berry can't receive or pickup the ball cleanly and his kick isn't great. He can tackle but for whatever reason lost that when they asked him to pickup his posession rate. needs to spend some time with eb marinoff to work out how to do both if he wants an AFL career

 

[hugecannon]

Edwards would look better with the real bulls around him. by the time he was chucked in sanfl midfield there were so many squad injuries he was 18 and all alone. but he has speed and good kick.

Berry can't receive or pickup the ball cleanly and his kick isn't great. He can tackle but for whatever reason lost that when they asked him to pickup his posession rate. needs to spend some time with eb marinoff to work out how to do both if he wants an AFL career

One bonus is that Edwards improved as the season went on, especially as he was given more opportunities in the middle towards the end of the season.

Hopefully he continues that trajectory and stakes a claim over preseason for Rd. 1.

 

[Mostyn]

As far as the actual trade period goes we did very well IMO.

Bringing in Cumming as a FA was a great get, and I think the injuries he suffered in 2024 probably helped us get him over the line more than anything. Played over 60 games in the 3 years leading up to 2024. Is not injury prone. Kicking and speed are weapons, and unlike the majority of “outside” players, he’s actually a really strong mark overhead AND a really strong tackler. Love him as a player and I think he’ll thrive at a club where he can play in his most suitable position (which was taken by Whitfield at GWS).

Neal-Bullen is a premiership player and natural leader. He CAN play as that defensive half forward, but he can also shift into the midfield and play as a stopper in there (he did this against N Daicos in 2024 and kept him to his lowest possession count of the season). This is a huge addition for us, as the rest of our mids really struggle to lock down the stars of the comp in any meaningful way.

Peatling is a stoppage mid with pace and agility, who has also shown a somewhat surprising ability around the goals. When you have the likes of Crouch, Dawson and Berry (and to a lesser extent because he’s probably been binned from the midfield, Laird) in your squad, you absolutely need to inject some speed and agility into that STOPPAGE mix. Huge upside here too as the potential has been largely capped by copping the sub vest regularly and being stuck behind the likes of Callaghan, Kelly, Coniglio and Green.


The separate point that many have tried to make, and that I wholeheartedly agree with, is that SOME of the list management decisions in the lead up to this trade period were poor.

Retaining Smith is an error. Whether he hit his infamous “games played trigger” in Round 8ish or some time later in the season, I don’t care, the inclusion of such a trigger was bad list management, and continuing to play Smith in the side after his horrendous form in the first month was terrible coaching / selection. Side note - I remember one poster exclaiming “who’s to say that Smith didn’t hit the trigger in 2023?” - that would literally be the most stupid contract trigger in the history of professional sports, so yep, I guess we can’t count that out!

The key point is, whoever negotiated that games played trigger into Smith’s contract made an error - maybe the requirement should have been more games than it was in 2024, maybe it should have been based more on 2024 FORM, 2024 B&F votes, I’m not sure (or maybe contract triggers in general for over 30s are stupid), but if you’re sitting back now thinking “yep, Brodie Smith

33

Brodie Smith

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

500.1

5star

D

17.1

4star

K

12.6

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

438.9

5star

D

17.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.6

5star

on the list in 2025, that’s great and I’m all for it” you’re kidding yourself. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 team for 2024. The writing was well and truly on the wall in the last 6-8 weeks of 2023, and anyone who didn’t notice wasn’t paying attention. With the arrival of Cumming and the continual growth of guys like Nankervis, Ryan etc, it just makes Smith’s position on the list even more pointless.

Retaining Berry is almost as pointless as Smith now that we’ve brought in Peatling. Berry has proven time and time again that he’s incapable of accumulating the ball enough to be a full time mid, AND a poor user by foot, AND fumbly by hand, AND incapable of playing anywhere else on the ground (note: I would never question his tackling, it’s great. But yeah, if that’s your one wood, you’re extremely limited). Collingwood were knocking (T Mitchell is finished, and they’re likely just wanting some depth who can play as a sub / be a decent backup. The key is they don’t have guys like Peatling / Dawson / Crouch / Curtin / Taylor who make far more sense at AFL level than Berry). Whatever we would have received in a trade (even if pick 45 odd) would be better than what Sam Berry will bring to the AFC in 2025-26 for mine. Decent chance at a Magarey I suppose. If he’s in the Round 1 AFL team, it’s only because we have multiple midfield injuries. You can’t have all 3 of Crouch, Dawson and Berry in the same midfield, and it’s blatant who the odd man out is.


The reason I highlight Smith and Berry is that in a draft that is touted as one of the best ever and bats very deep, even having something like, say, picks 35 and 48 (easy to manufacture with a Berry trade plus just not trading with Melbourne for their future 3rd, plus maybe a small future pick to 2024 pick upgrade) to replace these two on our list would have given us a really good shot at getting a couple of good prospects in, with one of them almost definitely a small forward (there’s an abundance in this draft pool), and the other either a ruck or a “best available” type.

Point of my story - Berry and Smith offer nothing moving forward in terms of list need or actual production from those specific players. 2 picks between 30 and 50 would have offered something, especially in a deep draft loaded with nimble small forwards to address that CLEAR list need (plus whatever else we could pick up in there). I guarantee you we’ll get into the 40s in this draft and there’ll be some unbelievable bargains to be had that draft watchers “can’t belieeeeeve” are still there.


I’m not trying to rant or shit on the club by saying any of that, that’s just the reality from where I sit.


Contract structure for Smith that enabled an extension despite him displaying arguably the worst AFL form of any player on our list and being a million years old: F minus

Offering Berry a 2 year deal instead of trading him: F

Trade period in isolation from the above errors which took place before the trade period and therefore handcuffed us into taking pick 4 and Welsh only at the draft: A

Good post - agree with all of this.

 

[Vader]

The point usually with a games played trigger is the player playing well enough that they deserve their spot in the side, so them triggering another contract is almost just business taking care of itself.

I am assuming it wasn't negotiated on the thought that Smith could be playing absolutely atrocious football that would make a team think twice about re-contracting him and the coach would ignore it and play him anyway.

It's usually more about injuries than form, protecting a club from having an extra year with a player who has become injury prone in the latter years of their career.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

I still think there’s a player in Berry - I’d certainly keep him ahead of Schoenberg and Laird. But there’s now Dawson, Rankine, Crouch, Soligo, Peatling, Pick 4 who are definitively ahead of Berry, and Taylor, Pedlar, Edwards, Dowling who may leapfrog him (I personally think Taylor already has). When we’ve got such little depth elsewhere something has to give and Berry was the most obvious candidate that would actually have suitors.

 

[rabidcrow]

we had opportunities to perhaps seek a project ruckman is the argument. Hamill on the rookie list last year should have been a project ruckmans spot tbh

The project ruckmen most on here have advocated for (Goad, Barnett and Keeler to an extent) have all been pretty ordinary to this point. Perhaps we dodged a bullet amd can get a Bryan or Reidy next year


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