List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[adelaidecrows]

Buff, who needs buff. These days I go twice a week just to keep the body moving and to retain some fexability and muscle strength. No point in trying to be a racehorse. I would simply kill myself trying

Im finding now in my mid 40s I am fatiguing quicker and require a longer break between intense cycling sessions. So now I make sure I have a couple of recovery rides mixed with some moderate intensity as well. My goal is to change my whole body shape and thin down to remove how top heavy I am. All about hitting older age with a healthier and thinner body so I have less stress on my back and heart etc, while keeping fit and eating somewhat healthy. I figure cycling is one of the best activities due to the lack of stress on joints.

 

[AFC979810]

ROB has sucked for the last 3 years and been dropped for the last 2. Taking a developing ruckman 6 years would have seen him in a position to challenge ROB in the last 2 years.

What does that have to do with not selecting a ruckman 5 years prior?

Of course there was a need.

Scorpus perhaps you can spell that out to him as he has me on ignore

There was zero need.

In 2016 we had the future 2017 All Australian ruckman who had just turned 29 and the heir apparent in Reilly O'Brien who won a B&F in 2020.

Why use more resources? If it goes pear shaped - you bloody trade for a cheap ruckman which as shown by all other clubs (including our own) over the the past 10 years is easy to do.

Suggesting we should have taken a ruckman in 2016 is idiotic.

 

[adelaidecrows]

What does that have to do with not selecting a ruckman 5 years prior?



There was zero need.

In 2016 we had the future 2017 All Australian ruckman who had just turned 29 and the heir apparent in Reilly O'Brien who won a B&F in 2020.

Why use more resources? If it goes pear shaped - you bloody trade for a cheap ruckman which as shown by all other clubs (including our own) over the the past 10 years is easy to do.

Suggesting we should have taken a ruckman in 2016 is idiotic.

we had opportunities to perhaps seek a project ruckman is the argument. Hamill on the rookie list last year should have been a project ruckmans spot tbh

 

[AFC979810]

we had opportunities to perhaps seek a project ruckman is the argument. Hamill on the rookie list last year should have been a project ruckmans spot tbh

Yeah - I would have been fine grabbing one. I am also fine going into the season with ROB/Strawnie/Toby Murray.

If it goes pear shaped - pick up the best VFL/SANFL ruckman during the midseason draft.

We will need to address the ruck situation this year anyway with all of 3 of our ruckman out of contract at the end of the year.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yeah - I would have been fine grabbing one. I am also fine going into the season with ROB/Strawnie/Toby Murray.

If it goes pear shaped - pick up the best VFL/SANFL ruckman during the midseason draft.

We will need to address the ruck situation this year anyway with all of 3 of our ruckman out of contract at the end of the year.

Just seems an odd list management decision to ignore this area of the park. I guess they have always figured they can entice a fringe ruckman from another club.

 

[GreyCrow]

You can just see Nicks and Hamish chatting

'' bloody hell Blight uses Ormond-Allen as a ruck and everyone praises him ''

'' too bloody right we get 3 x 200cm blokes and people still arent happy ''

Harper in the corner '' yeah but they are forwards ''

' so was bloody Shane Ellen ''

 

[PeterSalt]

You can just see Nicks and Hamish chatting

'' bloody hell Blight uses Ormond-Allen as a ruck and everyone praises him ''

'' too bloody right we get 3 x 200cm blokes and people still arent happy ''

Harper in the corner '' yeah but they are forwards ''

' so was bloody Shane Ellen ''

Didn't they use Nick Murray in the ruck at 1 stage this year, or was that last year before he did his ACL?

I can't remember how he performed, but I imagine he has no problem throwing himself into the contest

 

[GreyCrow]

Didn't they use Nick Murray in the ruck at 1 stage this year, or was that last year before he did his ACL?

I can't remember how he performed, but I imagine he has no problem throwing himself into the contest

2023 he entered 9 CBAs (round 12)

 

[Caputo]

we had opportunities to perhaps seek a project ruckman is the argument. Hamill on the rookie list last year should have been a project ruckmans spot tbh

Disagree as Hamill was in contract and on Rookie List to meet minimal Draft requirement and played 7 decent games off half back.

 

[1970crow]

I'd rather keep ROB than get Draper

I'd imagine ROB has told the club he's heading elsewhere due to study at the end of this contract.

 

[Caputo]

I'd imagine ROB has told the club he's heading elsewhere due to study at the end of this contract.

I am hoping we are after Henry Smith (Bris) but may play more post Daniher

 

[Mostyn]

I'm not a fan of Reid, but you have to say that this years trade period has been a big win.

We brought in 3 players who will all be first 18 and will all make us stronger. We did so without giving away much, and maintained our top draft pick. If we get that pick right, this off season could be the pivotal point that propels us into contention.

So I would give the incoming players an A grade.

On the negative side, we didn't address a clear need in having a developing ruck, we also limited what other moves we could make by filling our list with unnecessary contracts.

So I think overall I would give it an A-. Good, but not perfect.

I'd probably give it an A- as well.

Disagree about developing ruck, unless you mean grabbing a 22 year old, like a Max Knobel type?

The last two years we were supposedly interested in both Harry Barnett and Taylor Goad - and maybe it wasn't terrible that they didn't happen?

Finding a way to extricate ourselves from Brodie Smith and Burgess, and grabbing a young-ish ruck and a draft pick would have been ideal.

 

[Mostyn]

We have to do better than Sam Draper - he is so inconsistent(unlike ROB) & at the start of the 2026 season he'll be well over 27 years old. So, we wouldn't want to give the world away for him.

As long as it's just money.

I'd try to bring in two next year. Draper and a younger ruck, and both Strachan and ROB can leave.

 

[hugecannon]

How has Toby Murray gone in ruck in the SANFL?

In the games I watched (admittedly not a heap) he didn’t spend much time in the ruck, usually it was Himmelberg doing the back up work to Strachan.

I’m the bits i did see he showed good aggression in the contest and had good hands in marking contests. He didn’t show a heap in terms of his tap work, but I think there’s something there to work with, especially given we aren’t bringing in anyone else and we know
Strachan can’t play a full game at AFL level.

 

[Mostyn]

There is absolutely no excuse for not drafting a young development ruck with a later/rookie pick. None.

The SANFL approach by the club should be primarily around development not SANFL Premierships...nobody will ever convince me that having a young developing ruck developing in in the SANFL is detrimental on any level even with a mature (break glass in emergency) Strachan or the like also on the list.

What's the point of taking a ruck in the draft?

We supposedly were very interested in Barnett. And then we were supposedly very interested in Goad.

It's good we didn't take them. Now we can see if they will amount to anything - and it's looking like they wont.

Grab someone who's 22, with a decent offer. There's less downside.

 

[hugecannon]

I think Angus Clarke will be cose to one of the best SA dtaftees taken in this draft especially given where he gets taken.
Probably starts as a nice sized rebounding defender and believe me he ticks all the boxes, best kick in the SA contingent both accurate and penetrating, good pace and dare along with plenty of run and carry, excellent overhead for his 189cm, good defensively one on one.

Versatile as well given he's gone well when he's had stints up forward. Expect him to be one of the fist SA lads taken after Draper...he's a ripper.
Personally I don't think Angus Clarke's far off Tobie Travaglia either stylistically or as a talent (better kick) who is being spoken of as a top 10 prospect, some see Travaglia as a future mid chance then so is this lad IMO.

Do you think he’s slid because SA were so bad this year, or the evenness of the draft?
Edit :- saw your response above

 

[hugecannon]

My worst nightmare, gets very tricky from here: one of Smith, Smillie, Reid, Langford...but which one?

Smith, seems like he’d complement our midfield.

 

[Mutineer]

What's the point of taking a ruck in the draft?

We supposedly were very interested in Barnett. And then we were supposedly very interested in Goad.

It's good we didn't take them. Now we can see if they will amount to anything - and it's looking like they wont.

Grab someone who's 22, with a decent offer. There's less downside.

Disagree, the point where both Goad and Barnett went in the draft (premium picks) is not where we should be selecting our young developing ruck. Later/rookie is the area of the draft where a lot of the better rucks are selected and where we got ROB incidentally.

Too late now but Flynn Penry or Joe Pike would be ideal candidates from this draft and both could go undrafted even. Penry would be every chance to get another year at the Rebels as an overager due to his late start to the season with injury.

The last 2 Rebels rucks to get the overage year were Rowan Marshall and Lloyd Meek, names ring any bells?

 

[Mostyn]

Disagree, the point where both Goad and Barnett went in the draft (premium picks) is not where we should be selecting our young developing ruck. Later/rookie is the area of the draft where a lot of the better rucks are selected and where we got ROB incidentally.

Too late now but Flynn Penry or Joe Pike would be ideal candidates from this draft and both could go undrafted even. Penry would be every chance to get another year at the Rebels as an overager due to his late start to the season with injury.

The last 2 Rebels rucks to get the overage year were Rowan Marshall and Lloyd Meek, names ring any bells?

Yeah, I'm fine with the late pick and rookie idea.

I think our list is a bit out of balance at the moment. We know we need a better midfield, but we have a lot of quasi-mids and running defender types. We need to not forget the talls.

 

[huludicidal]

As far as the actual trade period goes we did very well IMO.

Bringing in Cumming as a FA was a great get, and I think the injuries he suffered in 2024 probably helped us get him over the line more than anything. Played over 60 games in the 3 years leading up to 2024. Is not injury prone. Kicking and speed are weapons, and unlike the majority of “outside” players, he’s actually a really strong mark overhead AND a really strong tackler. Love him as a player and I think he’ll thrive at a club where he can play in his most suitable position (which was taken by Whitfield at GWS).

Neal-Bullen is a premiership player and natural leader. He CAN play as that defensive half forward, but he can also shift into the midfield and play as a stopper in there (he did this against N Daicos in 2024 and kept him to his lowest possession count of the season). This is a huge addition for us, as the rest of our mids really struggle to lock down the stars of the comp in any meaningful way.

Peatling is a stoppage mid with pace and agility, who has also shown a somewhat surprising ability around the goals. When you have the likes of Crouch, Dawson and Berry (and to a lesser extent because he’s probably been binned from the midfield, Laird) in your squad, you absolutely need to inject some speed and agility into that STOPPAGE mix. Huge upside here too as the potential has been largely capped by copping the sub vest regularly and being stuck behind the likes of Callaghan, Kelly, Coniglio and Green.


The separate point that many have tried to make, and that I wholeheartedly agree with, is that SOME of the list management decisions in the lead up to this trade period were poor.

Retaining Smith is an error. Whether he hit his infamous “games played trigger” in Round 8ish or some time later in the season, I don’t care, the inclusion of such a trigger was bad list management, and continuing to play Smith in the side after his horrendous form in the first month was terrible coaching / selection. Side note - I remember one poster exclaiming “who’s to say that Smith didn’t hit the trigger in 2023?” - that would literally be the most stupid contract trigger in the history of professional sports, so yep, I guess we can’t count that out!

The key point is, whoever negotiated that games played trigger into Smith’s contract made an error - maybe the requirement should have been more games than it was in 2024, maybe it should have been based more on 2024 FORM, 2024 B&F votes, I’m not sure (or maybe contract triggers in general for over 30s are stupid), but if you’re sitting back now thinking “yep, Brodie Smith

33

Brodie Smith

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

500.1

5star

D

17.1

4star

K

12.6

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

438.9

5star

D

17.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.6

5star

on the list in 2025, that’s great and I’m all for it” you’re kidding yourself. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 team for 2024. The writing was well and truly on the wall in the last 6-8 weeks of 2023, and anyone who didn’t notice wasn’t paying attention. With the arrival of Cumming and the continual growth of guys like Nankervis, Ryan etc, it just makes Smith’s position on the list even more pointless.

Retaining Berry is almost as pointless as Smith now that we’ve brought in Peatling. Berry has proven time and time again that he’s incapable of accumulating the ball enough to be a full time mid, AND a poor user by foot, AND fumbly by hand, AND incapable of playing anywhere else on the ground (note: I would never question his tackling, it’s great. But yeah, if that’s your one wood, you’re extremely limited). Collingwood were knocking (T Mitchell is finished, and they’re likely just wanting some depth who can play as a sub / be a decent backup. The key is they don’t have guys like Peatling / Dawson / Crouch / Curtin / Taylor who make far more sense at AFL level than Berry). Whatever we would have received in a trade (even if pick 45 odd) would be better than what Sam Berry will bring to the AFC in 2025-26 for mine. Decent chance at a Magarey I suppose. If he’s in the Round 1 AFL team, it’s only because we have multiple midfield injuries. You can’t have all 3 of Crouch, Dawson and Berry in the same midfield, and it’s blatant who the odd man out is.


The reason I highlight Smith and Berry is that in a draft that is touted as one of the best ever and bats very deep, even having something like, say, picks 35 and 48 (easy to manufacture with a Berry trade plus just not trading with Melbourne for their future 3rd, plus maybe a small future pick to 2024 pick upgrade) to replace these two on our list would have given us a really good shot at getting a couple of good prospects in, with one of them almost definitely a small forward (there’s an abundance in this draft pool), and the other either a ruck or a “best available” type.

Point of my story - Berry and Smith offer nothing moving forward in terms of list need or actual production from those specific players. 2 picks between 30 and 50 would have offered something, especially in a deep draft loaded with nimble small forwards to address that CLEAR list need (plus whatever else we could pick up in there). I guarantee you we’ll get into the 40s in this draft and there’ll be some unbelievable bargains to be had that draft watchers “can’t belieeeeeve” are still there.


I’m not trying to rant or shit on the club by saying any of that, that’s just the reality from where I sit.


Contract structure for Smith that enabled an extension despite him displaying arguably the worst AFL form of any player on our list and being a million years old: F minus

Offering Berry a 2 year deal instead of trading him: F

Trade period in isolation from the above errors which took place before the trade period and therefore handcuffed us into taking pick 4 and Welsh only at the draft: A

 

[crow2crow]

As far as the actual trade period goes we did very well IMO.

Bringing in Cumming as a FA was a great get, and I think the injuries he suffered in 2024 probably helped us get him over the line more than anything. Played over 60 games in the 3 years leading up to 2024. Is not injury prone. Kicking and speed are weapons, and unlike the majority of “outside” players, he’s actually a really strong mark overhead AND a really strong tackler. Love him as a player and I think he’ll thrive at a club where he can play in his most suitable position (which was taken by Whitfield at GWS).

Neal-Bullen is a premiership player and natural leader. He CAN play as that defensive half forward, but he can also shift into the midfield and play as a stopper in there (he did this against N Daicos in 2024 and kept him to his lowest possession count of the season). This is a huge addition for us, as the rest of our mids really struggle to lock down the stars of the comp in any meaningful way.

Peatling is a stoppage mid with pace and agility, who has also shown a somewhat surprising ability around the goals. When you have the likes of Crouch, Dawson and Berry (and to a lesser extent because he’s probably been binned from the midfield, Laird) in your squad, you absolutely need to inject some speed and agility into that STOPPAGE mix. Huge upside here too as the potential has been largely capped by copping the sub vest regularly and being stuck behind the likes of Callaghan, Kelly, Coniglio and Green.


The separate point that many have tried to make, and that I wholeheartedly agree with, is that SOME of the list management decisions in the lead up to this trade period were poor.

Retaining Smith is an error. Whether he hit his infamous “games played trigger” in Round 8ish or some time later in the season, I don’t care, the inclusion of such a trigger was bad list management, and continuing to play Smith in the side after his horrendous form in the first month was terrible coaching / selection. Side note - I remember one poster exclaiming “who’s to say that Smith didn’t hit the trigger in 2023?” - that would literally be the most stupid contract trigger in the history of professional sports, so yep, I guess we can’t count that out!

The key point is, whoever negotiated that games played trigger into Smith’s contract made an error - maybe the requirement should have been more games than it was in 2024, maybe it should have been based more on 2024 FORM, 2024 B&F votes, I’m not sure (or maybe contract triggers in general for over 30s are stupid), but if you’re sitting back now thinking “yep, Brodie Smith on the list in 2025, that’s great and I’m all for it” you’re kidding yourself. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 team for 2024. The writing was well and truly on the wall in the last 6-8 weeks of 2023, and anyone who didn’t notice wasn’t paying attention. With the arrival of Cumming and the continual growth of guys like Nankervis, Ryan etc, it just makes Smith’s position on the list even more pointless.

Retaining Berry is almost as pointless as Smith now that we’ve brought in Peatling. Berry has proven time and time again that he’s incapable of accumulating the ball enough to be a full time mid, AND a poor user by foot, AND fumbly by hand, AND incapable of playing anywhere else on the ground (note: I would never question his tackling, it’s great. But yeah, if that’s your one wood, you’re extremely limited). Collingwood were knocking (T Mitchell is finished, and they’re likely . Whatever we would have received in a trade (even if pick 45 odd) would be better than what Sam Berry will bring to the AFC in 2025-26 for mine. Decent chance at a Magarey I suppose. If he’s in the Round 1 AFL team, it’s only because we have multiple midfield injuries. You can’t have all 3 of Crouch, Dawson and Berry in the same midfield, and it’s blatant who the odd man out is.


The reason I highlight Smith and Berry is that in a draft that is touted as one of the best ever and bats very deep, even having something like, say, picks 35 and 48 (easy to manufacture with a Berry trade plus just not trading with Melbourne for their future 3rd, plus maybe a small future pick to 2024 pick upgrade) to replace these two on our list would have given us a really good shot at getting a couple of good prospects in, with one of them almost definitely a small forward (there’s an abundance in this draft pool), and the other either a ruck or a “best available” type.

Point of my story - Berry and Smith offer nothing moving forward in terms of list need or actual production from those specific players. 2 picks between 30 and 50 would have offered something, especially in a deep draft loaded with nimble small forwards to address that CLEAR list need (plus whatever else we could pick up in there). I guarantee you we’ll get into the 40s in this draft and there’ll be some unbelievable bargains to be had that draft watchers “can’t belieeeeeve” are still there.


I’m not trying to rant or shit on the club by saying any of that, that’s just the reality from where I sit.


Contract structure for Smith that enabled an extension despite him displaying arguably the worst AFL form of any player on our list and being a million years old: F minus

Offering Berry a 2 year deal instead of trading him: F

Trade period in isolation from the above errors which took place before the trade period and therefore handcuffed us into taking pick 4 and Welsh only at the draft: A

i agree with all of this and even if we hadnt got peatling i would have moved berry on. would much prefer to see what edwards brought than any more berry as an example.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Disagree, the point where both Goad and Barnett went in the draft (premium picks) is not where we should be selecting our young developing ruck. Later/rookie is the area of the draft where a lot of the better rucks are selected and where we got ROB incidentally.

Too late now but Flynn Penry or Joe Pike would be ideal candidates from this draft and both could go undrafted even. Penry would be every chance to get another year at the Rebels as an overager due to his late start to the season with injury.

The last 2 Rebels rucks to get the overage year were Rowan Marshall and Lloyd Meek, names ring any bells?

Assuming Penry goes another year with GWV, I’d absolutely take Pike on a SANFL U21 contract. I think it was said we had interest in him around the find of last MSD, too

Would be easier to keep an eye on him for next year’s MSD

 

[Mutineer]

Assuming Penry goes another year with GWV, I’d absolutely take Pike on a SANFL U21 contract. I think it was said we had interest in him around the find of last MSD, too

Would be easier to keep an eye on him for next year’s MSD

I wouldn't be waiting to next year for Penry, get him over now for the SANFL, younger and more upside than Joe Pike.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I wouldn't be waiting to next year for Penry, get him over now for the SANFL, younger and more upside than Joe Pike.

Agree, just moreso that 1) Penry’s more likely to get drafted, and 2) if he doesn’t, he has the option to continue with GWV for another year

 

[Mutineer]

As far as the actual trade period goes we did very well IMO.

Bringing in Cumming as a FA was a great get, and I think the injuries he suffered in 2024 probably helped us get him over the line more than anything. Played over 60 games in the 3 years leading up to 2024. Is not injury prone. Kicking and speed are weapons, and unlike the majority of “outside” players, he’s actually a really strong mark overhead AND a really strong tackler. Love him as a player and I think he’ll thrive at a club where he can play in his most suitable position (which was taken by Whitfield at GWS).

Neal-Bullen is a premiership player and natural leader. He CAN play as that defensive half forward, but he can also shift into the midfield and play as a stopper in there (he did this against N Daicos in 2024 and kept him to his lowest possession count of the season). This is a huge addition for us, as the rest of our mids really struggle to lock down the stars of the comp in any meaningful way.

Peatling is a stoppage mid with pace and agility, who has also shown a somewhat surprising ability around the goals. When you have the likes of Crouch, Dawson and Berry (and to a lesser extent because he’s probably been binned from the midfield, Laird) in your squad, you absolutely need to inject some speed and agility into that STOPPAGE mix. Huge upside here too as the potential has been largely capped by copping the sub vest regularly and being stuck behind the likes of Callaghan, Kelly, Coniglio and Green.


The separate point that many have tried to make, and that I wholeheartedly agree with, is that SOME of the list management decisions in the lead up to this trade period were poor.

Retaining Smith is an error. Whether he hit his infamous “games played trigger” in Round 8ish or some time later in the season, I don’t care, the inclusion of such a trigger was bad list management, and continuing to play Smith in the side after his horrendous form in the first month was terrible coaching / selection. Side note - I remember one poster exclaiming “who’s to say that Smith didn’t hit the trigger in 2023?” - that would literally be the most stupid contract trigger in the history of professional sports, so yep, I guess we can’t count that out!

The key point is, whoever negotiated that games played trigger into Smith’s contract made an error - maybe the requirement should have been more games than it was in 2024, maybe it should have been based more on 2024 FORM, 2024 B&F votes, I’m not sure (or maybe contract triggers in general for over 30s are stupid), but if you’re sitting back now thinking “yep, Brodie Smith on the list in 2025, that’s great and I’m all for it” you’re kidding yourself. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 team for 2024. The writing was well and truly on the wall in the last 6-8 weeks of 2023, and anyone who didn’t notice wasn’t paying attention. With the arrival of Cumming and the continual growth of guys like Nankervis, Ryan etc, it just makes Smith’s position on the list even more pointless.

Retaining Berry is almost as pointless as Smith now that we’ve brought in Peatling. Berry has proven time and time again that he’s incapable of accumulating the ball enough to be a full time mid, AND a poor user by foot, AND fumbly by hand, AND incapable of playing anywhere else on the ground (note: I would never question his tackling, it’s great. But yeah, if that’s your one wood, you’re extremely limited). Collingwood were knocking (T Mitchell is finished, and they’re likely just wanting some depth who can play as a sub / be a decent backup. The key is they don’t have guys like Peatling / Dawson / Crouch / Curtin / Taylor who make far more sense at AFL level than Berry). Whatever we would have received in a trade (even if pick 45 odd) would be better than what Sam Berry will bring to the AFC in 2025-26 for mine. Decent chance at a Magarey I suppose. If he’s in the Round 1 AFL team, it’s only because we have multiple midfield injuries. You can’t have all 3 of Crouch, Dawson and Berry in the same midfield, and it’s blatant who the odd man out is.


The reason I highlight Smith and Berry is that in a draft that is touted as one of the best ever and bats very deep, even having something like, say, picks 35 and 48 (easy to manufacture with a Berry trade plus just not trading with Melbourne for their future 3rd, plus maybe a small future pick to 2024 pick upgrade) to replace these two on our list would have given us a really good shot at getting a couple of good prospects in, with one of them almost definitely a small forward (there’s an abundance in this draft pool), and the other either a ruck or a “best available” type.

Point of my story - Berry and Smith offer nothing moving forward in terms of list need or actual production from those specific players. 2 picks between 30 and 50 would have offered something, especially in a deep draft loaded with nimble small forwards to address that CLEAR list need (plus whatever else we could pick up in there). I guarantee you we’ll get into the 40s in this draft and there’ll be some unbelievable bargains to be had that draft watchers “can’t belieeeeeve” are still there.


I’m not trying to rant or shit on the club by saying any of that, that’s just the reality from where I sit.


Contract structure for Smith that enabled an extension despite him displaying arguably the worst AFL form of any player on our list and being a million years old: F minus

Offering Berry a 2 year deal instead of trading him: F

Trade period in isolation from the above errors which took place before the trade period and therefore handcuffed us into taking pick 4 and Welsh only at the draft: A

Disagree re Berry, agree wholeheartedly with Smith.