List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

Should the AFC offer Taylor Walker a contract for 2025?

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Alwaysacrow said:
There's now way he'll be offered another contract unless he has a blinder of a season which is extremely unlikely given his limited skill set. The writing has been on the wall this season as he was only used as sub or emergency or for injuries. We simply have better players now coming through.
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Probably too high of a bar.

McHenry's game is to win a best 22 spot by the end of next year. Does that, and he'll get a contract, doesn't and his Adelaide career likely comes to an end. Right now, there are two spots he could win - Keays and Murphy. One to win back a defensive forward role, the other more of a system role to fix up some issues. The other, more risky, option is to develop into a specialist substitute player which is something that would suit Neds skillset.

That said, it's unlikely he does win it back, but eh, injuries have saved many a career before.
 
CrowToon said:
The top 3 I cannot for the life of me see being part of the side in 2025 are:

Sloane - needs to be in the coaches box every game he isn't selected for next season (which i hope is at least half).

Hamill - I just can't see him becoming a part of the next premiership side. Not his fault but bloke has nothing in the core.

Keays - Again, I don't think we can in good faith take a bloke who cannot kick to the promised land. That OOB on the full still haunts my dreams. Ok he will keep getting 1 year extensions but if we are factoring him into our best 22 in 2025 something has gone horrifically wrong.
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Kicking skills aren't that important. You don't want bad kicks in the areas that are critical for a teams ball movement/success, but when it comes to role players, getting production that helps hide the weaknesses of your best players is more important then any flaw - except toughness.

If Keays puts up another year where he's a 15-20 goal forward - though it's highly likely he'll be fine between 10-15 due to our build - with good defensive and disposal numbers, he'll be a walk up start in 2025. Right now, I think it's a very safe bet Keays will meet that benchmark. After all, and despite his flaws, he is an above average small forward and a rather good 5-7th option in a forward line.

The worry with Keays is if we value him wrong in his next contract and overpay for what he offers. A bit like Doedee, brings a lot of good, but that good isn't worth much money wise. Especially considering he's that anti-clutch that the universe will spoil it even if he does well.
 
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Bearded Clam said:
What I’d do this far out…

Brodie Smith - retire.. far too many other HB options to have smith clogging the list up.
Lachlan Sholl - delist. Too soft
Sam Berry - shakey ground.. needs to turn it around very quickly or he’s delist pile bound
Luke Pedlar - definite keep
Brayden Cook - keep
Ned McHenry - keep if he can continue to be a good sub player form
Ben Keays - keep, but hoping he gets pushed out of the 22 by more talented youth
Matthew Nicks (Senior Coach) - see what happens. No finals again in 24 definitely has to = no more Nicksy.
Lachlan Gollant - up to him.. keep as good depth but allow a trade of he wants more opportunity elsewhere
Patrick Parnell (R) - delist. Too many other options in that position
Mitchell Hinge - long term decent contract
Elliot Himmelberg - will take up FA at GWS. Happy for him to go
Hugh Bond - very shakey ground
Taylor Walker - assess mid year. Re-sign for another year if he’s still performing
Rory Sloane - retire
Chris Burgess( unsure on length) - have to see how he performs
Will Hamill (R) - retire
James Borlase (R) - keep unless petty comes in. If petty come in then delist

So 6 definite “gones” and about 4 other potential “gones”..

But its very rare to move on 10 players in one off season..
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Yeah, more or less agree with that. Personally I'd be keener to delist McHenry but I suspect you are right that he will get a number of games as a sub, probably competing with Sloane who also shouldn't still be there for that spot as 23rd player.

We could decrease the number of players on our main list as we are at the maximum for this coming season , we wouldn't have to replace them all. For example 3 clubs will have 4 less players on their primary list compared to us this coming season.
Would allow us more rookie spots if we wanted them and/or a little extra wriggle room in salary cap if needed.
 
50BC said:
Yeah, more or less agree with that. Personally I'd be keener to delist McHenry but I suspect you are right that he will get a number of games as a sub, probably competing with Sloane who also shouldn't still be there for that spot as 23rd player.

We could decrease the number of players on our main list as we are at the maximum for this coming season , we wouldn't have to replace them all. For example 3 clubs will have 4 less players on their primary list compared to us this coming season.
Would allow us more rookie spots if we wanted them and/or a little extra wriggle room in salary cap if needed.
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Mostly agree.
I think Borlase should go unless he really improves, don’t need to many tall backs. I think Cook would want to show some improvement too, but he’s safer in my book.
 
George Kramer said:
Who said this is the reason why?
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Matt Clarke said it:

“People are now calling us the ‘Richmond Sliders’,” Tigers recruiting chief Matt Clarke told the Herald Sun.

“Because we kept working the phones to slide picks into next year. So we’ve changed from ‘Bidmond’ over to ‘Bidney’, and now we’re the Sliders.”

While the Tigers don’t possess the most 2024 draft points - that’s Fremantle, with three first-round picks (their own, Collingwood’s and Port Adelaide’s) and Gold Coast, with two first-round picks (their own, the Bulldogs’ and an end-of-first-round pick from the Kangaroos, plus two second-rounders) - it gives them options to either replenish the list with young talent, or trade those picks to point-needy sides.

“We don’t know if there’s going to be anywhere near the points that Gold Coast had to get this year with their four academy boys, but we know that the Crows are going to need a lot of points for (father-son) Tyler Welsh,” Clarke said.

“Carlton has got the Camporeale boys, and one of them (Ben) is a genuinely right at the pointy end.

“They’re both outstanding kids, they just run and keep getting the footy.

“Then there’s obviously Gold Coast with (academy star Leo Lombard) and we always know there will be others to emerge.”
 
Golumless said:
Kicking skills aren't that important. You don't want bad kicks in the areas that are critical for a teams ball movement/success, but when it comes to role players, getting production that helps hide the weaknesses of your best players is more important then any flaw - except toughness.

If Keays puts up another year where he's a 15-20 goal forward - though it's highly likely he'll be fine between 10-15 due to our build - with good defensive and disposal numbers, he'll be a walk up start in 2025. Right now, I think it's a very safe bet Keays will meet that benchmark. After all, and despite his flaws, he is an above average small forward and a rather good 5-7th option in a forward line.

The worry with Keays is if we value him wrong in his next contract and overpay for what he offers. A bit like Doedee, brings a lot of good, but that good isn't worth much money wise. Especially considering he's that anti-clutch that the universe will spoil it even if he does well.
Click to expand...

I dont rate him at all and that's a hill I am happy to die on. If we haven't got an upgrade on him within a couple of years we've missed a trick.
 
CrowToon said:
I dont rate him at all and that's a hill I am happy to die on. If we haven't got an upgrade on him within a couple of years we've missed a trick.
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I'd prefer Keays in Murphy's role. At least Keays is capable of kicking goals and being involved with forward half transition because of his running power.

There's a spot in the side for him IMO.
Not first picked, not even first 15, but for a bench spot I think he's fine.
 
1990crow said:
I'd prefer Keays in Murphy's role. At least Keays is capable of kicking goals and being involved with forward half transition because of his running power.

There's a spot in the side for him IMO.
Not first picked, not even first 15, but for a bench spot I think he's fine.
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Yeah this is how I see it. Think what he brings is overall more dangerous than Murphy, and if we’re looking to push for contention in the next couple of years, only one should be in the side

Assuming one of Rash or Peds is the 4th rotating midfielder next year (or they split those minutes), I think both start next year in the side, but ideally Murphy is pushed out at some point by a rapidly developing Cook (or at the latest, by Hayward during next off-season)
 
Danger in Texas said:
Yeah this is how I see it. Think what he brings is overall more dangerous than Murphy, and if we’re looking to push for contention in the next couple of years, only one should be in the side

Assuming one of Rash or Peds is the 4th rotating midfielder next year (or they split those minutes), I think both start next year in the side, but ideally Murphy is pushed out at some point by a rapidly developing Cook (or at the latest, by Hayward during next off-season)
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We need Dowling or Taylor to step up and take that floating HF/midfield role off murph..

We need Cook to finally bring it all together and take keays’s spot..
 
Bearded Clam said:
We need Dowling or Taylor to step up and take that floating HF/midfield role off murph..

We need Cook to finally bring it all together and take keays’s spot..
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Dowling maybe, Taylor I see more as pure mid. Maybe an eventual Laird/Crouch replacement if he comes on

But still, let me put it this way - I don’t think we ‘need’ to eradicate both of them from the side to go to contending levels, and Keays is the better of the two. Sure, if an upgrade on Keays comes along, all the better, but I don’t think it’ll hinder us if not

And this is all I’m gonna say here because I already know you vehemently disagree 😉
 

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Truck25 said:
you guy's do realise McHenry is the new McKay, he ain't goin' nowhere. You can hate on him all you like.
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Ned actually got dropped this year, whereas Mckay was always in the side bar injury. I was a big critic of Mckay but he still had some upsides - racked up outside possessions and metres gained.

Golumless said:
Probably too high of a bar.

McHenry's game is to win a best 22 spot by the end of next year. Does that, and he'll get a contract, doesn't and his Adelaide career likely comes to an end. Right now, there are two spots he could win - Keays and Murphy. One to win back a defensive forward role, the other more of a system role to fix up some issues. The other, more risky, option is to develop into a specialist substitute player which is something that would suit Neds skillset.

That said, it's unlikely he does win it back, but eh, injuries have saved many a career before.
Click to expand...

He's never getting a game infront if Keays and Murphy has strongly edged him out this year. You have to factor in more talent to be blooded. To say the guy has a had a fair shake of the sauce bottle with out showing any glimpses is an understatement - i mean we're coming on 6 years here. Clear delist for me but this is going to be a typically Crom resigning you can tell.

Berg is coming on 8 years? JFC what are we doing here
 
LoBu said:
Matt Clarke said it:

“People are now calling us the ‘Richmond Sliders’,” Tigers recruiting chief Matt Clarke told the Herald Sun.

“Because we kept working the phones to slide picks into next year. So we’ve changed from ‘Bidmond’ over to ‘Bidney’, and now we’re the Sliders.”

While the Tigers don’t possess the most 2024 draft points - that’s Fremantle, with three first-round picks (their own, Collingwood’s and Port Adelaide’s) and Gold Coast, with two first-round picks (their own, the Bulldogs’ and an end-of-first-round pick from the Kangaroos, plus two second-rounders) - it gives them options to either replenish the list with young talent, or trade those picks to point-needy sides.

“We don’t know if there’s going to be anywhere near the points that Gold Coast had to get this year with their four academy boys, but we know that the Crows are going to need a lot of points for (father-son) Tyler Welsh,” Clarke said.

“Carlton has got the Camporeale boys, and one of them (Ben) is a genuinely right at the pointy end.

“They’re both outstanding kids, they just run and keep getting the footy.

“Then there’s obviously Gold Coast with (academy star Leo Lombard) and we always know there will be others to emerge.”
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My preference to sorting next year out is if we can shake a top end mid loose, we save our 24 1st and maybe 25 1st for them. We should be able to trade out some fringe players for 3rds and 4ths to bank enough points for welsh including the melbourne f2 we have.

If by some miracle we can get in ahead of a potential welsh bid, then thats an absolute live option for us too.

Worst case, we auction our 24 1st for a few good 2nds, then we can further split if needs be, or flip some into 2025. No way would i be trading it to richmond for a bunch of 3rds etc and i'd expect our guys to be far smarter than that and they are based on the depth they went into on potential live trade picks etc
 
Dangarman said:
Great work, well done.
So we haven't traded out a single player from the last 8 drafts.
But 14 out of 52 - exactly one third - have been delisted. AFAIK none of those 14 are playing for another AFL club.
(OK, so including the 2023 draftees who probably haven't had the WH&S induction yet is a bit disingenuous, but it works)
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14 out of 42 would be a third - check the math!

Also only 2 of those 14 were taken inside top 40 ( McAsey and Gallucci) so to be expected


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Alwaysacrow said:
There's now way he'll be offered another contract unless he has a blinder of a season which is extremely unlikely given his limited skill set. The writing has been on the wall this season as he was only used as sub or emergency or for injuries. We simply have better players now coming through.
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We still need depth, and there's a bunch of players that would go before him.
 
RE-CONTRACTED
Brodie Smith
Sam Berry
Luke Pedlar
Brayden Cook
Ned McHenry
Ben Keays
Lachlan Gollant
Mitchell Hinge
Taylor Walker

DELISTED/RETIRED/TRADED
Lachlan Sholl
Elliot Himmelberg
Hugh Bond
Rory Sloane

Patrick Parnell
James Borlase
Will Hamill


Actually - maybe Ned goes? I'd have us for at least 5 list changes this off-season.
 
Keays was fantastic in that forward pressure role and also kicked plenty of goals. In Keays, Pedlar and Rankine, we have plenty of pressure up forward, even with (hopefully) Pedlar and Rankine spending some more time on the ball. Murphy and McHenry are handy depth. All going well, Keays and Murphy should be fighting for that one spot, made famous by Puopolo.
 
crows dude said:
Well Ogilvee and Reid have said next year we look more at trading and FA

Cant move on 10 players in one go otherwise you are forever in a re-build

Himmelberg - FA
Sloane - Retire
Hamill - Wait and see but if concussion continue retire
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Would be interesting to see how many mid-aged slugs were sitting around as depth in premiership sides over the last decade or so. I'd expect a couple, but we've historically run with about a dozen. Has changed recently, but I fear we're building it back becsuse we think we're contending. At a minimum, assuming nothing breakoutish or reversal of trend, there's at least 6-8 players that we should move on.

We're still trying to get a premiership 22 on our list, settling on players 26-34 because 'they've been in the system a few years' is contrary to elite ideals. You're always going to have 6-8 in their first couple years, add to the current best 22, there's 30 players. We need to be cycling through the 10 in between if they aren't definitively on their way to unseating someone in the best 22.

What we don't do is trust the inherent talent in the players that we've drafted. We'd rather go back to our Murphy's and McHenry's if we cop injuries. We ignore the reality that our recent 2nd-3rd round draftee won't bring much less to the 22's performance. Selection apologists use the 'the last couple of players picked don't make a difference anyway' excuse. Never realising that they're actually progressing the contrary argument.
 
Eagleboy2011 said:
Smith deserves and will get another contract.
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no he doesn't, not yet at least. He cruised through most of the year, padding stats with kick outs. Very few games was he actually influential. As an average player that's definitely not featuring as a main player in our next contending tilt, he's with Sloane in terms of being the first players we should be looking to move beyond. The difference between those two and Tex is that Tex's performance demands selection at 17 other teams. Neither Sloane or Smith would get a game on merit anywhere else.
 
Looking at the potential salary cap room we’ll have it’s quite feasible we can afford to go hard and recruit

Phillipou (will cost a 1st rounder)
Hayward (RFA)
Petty (trade future 1st?)
Barnett (OOC so maybe a 3rd rounder )


I still think if we can get cheap enough then Powell is worth a crack for mid depth

Hayward will be very hard to shake loose , very rare for Swans to lose required players
 
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