List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[ABAB]

Yes, he's from Adelaide... but once again, he's not going to sign for the AFC unless we're able/willing to tell him that he'll be playing every game in the AFL.

... and he's not going to be willing to put his AFL career on hold for 12 months, while the AFC waits for Walker to retire.

And once again, why not if he see a better future here than at GCS? And like most of us, he probably doesn't see Walker playing a lot and will be managed like what Geelong did with Hawkins this year who eventually had to retire.

 

[CrowTownRoad]

We'd still be expecting him to play 1/2 - 2/3 of all games (for which he is available).

4 into 3 does not go => problems.

Looks like we’re going to be the first ever bottom four side with a problem of having too many good players, strange

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You basically have 4 players, and 3 positions for them to play. The fundamental assumption here has to be that Fog, TT & Luko would be expected to play every game, and Tex around 1/2 - 2/3 of all games. That works well if one of the first 3 gets injured, but how does it work if they don't?

We need more than 23 players, as we will have players out with injuries.

Too much focus on the best side, when we need 30 decent players capable of playing AFL.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Prefer to keep at least one of those and I’d be looking at Gollant and / or Jones instead

I think Gollant as an out if Luko is an important makes sense.

Similarly Berry as an out if we land ANB.

But I would want net depth in, which is easiest if we land a FA like Cummings.

 

[Vader]

And once again, why not if he see a better future here than at GCS? And like most of us, he probably doesn't see Walker playing a lot and will be managed like what Geelong did with Hawkins this year who eventually had to retire.

Why would he put his career on hold for a year, which is what you're expecting him to do?

 

[skam85]

One of Luko's main reasons for wanting out of GC is because he can see himself spending a lot more time in the VFL, while Hardwick remains coach at GC. Why on earth would he agree to a trade to Adelaide, if there's an expectation that he'll be spending a lot of time in the SANFL? This just makes no sense whatsoever. It's a complete logic fail.

Except it isn't.

He doesn't want to be a half back, and he wants to play forward, whereas Dimma wants to utilise his elite disposal off HB.

Very similar to Jeremy Howe moving from Melbourne to Collingwood on the premise of being a forward.
The irony being Howe has ended up being a backman for 90% but has a premiership so I don't think he's too upset.

 

[Vader]

Looks like we’re going to be the first ever bottom four side with a problem of having too many good players, strange

Just too many quality players in one area of the ground.

We have notable weaknesses, particularly in the midfield, ruck & small forwards. Luko is none of these - he's competing for a place in an area where we have quality.

 

[skam85]

Just too many quality players in one area of the ground.

We have notable weaknesses, particularly in the midfield, ruck & small forwards. Luko is none of these - he's competing for a place in an area where we have quality.

In an area where one of the quality players has a maximum of 20 games left.

Hot take: this isn't just about 2025.

 

[Vader]

Except it isn't.

He doesn't want to be a half back, and he wants to play forward, whereas Dimma wants to utilise his elite disposal off HB.

Very similar to Jeremy Howe moving from Melbourne to Collingwood on the premise of being a forward.
The irony being Howe has ended up being a backman for 90% but has a premiership so I don't think he's too upset.

You realise that you're just reinforcing my point?

Luko wants to be a regular AFL player, playing in the forward line. That's not something we can offer him if Walker doesn't retire this year. Asking him to put his career on hold for a year, while we wait for Walker to play out his final season, is just plain ridiculous.

 

[Danger in Texas]

5 players in... who are we delisting or trading...
berry - trade
himmelberg - trade
gollant - trade/ delist
mchenry - trade/ delist
keane - trade

parnell, hamill and borlase are rookies

burgess? walker? bond?

If you count Sloane off the main list and Turray onto the rookie list - say Ned and one of Gollant/Burgess gets delisted (as does Parnell), EH and Berry request moves - that’s five senior list spots and no rookie spots

Then we can look at moving on Keane or Hamill if we want, then moving a Smith type to the rookie list to open up another senior spot

 

[skam85]

You realise that you're just reinforcing my point?

Luko wants to be a regular AFL player, playing in the forward line. That's not something we can offer him if Walker doesn't retire this year. Asking him to put his career on hold for a year, while we wait for Walker to play out his final season, is just plain ridiculous.

You were suggesting he is set to spend 2025 in the VFL.
You're wrong

 

[Vader]

In an area where one of the quality players has a maximum of 20 games left.

Hot take: this isn't just about 2025.

It's not just about 2025 - but you are effectively asking him to put his career on hold for 2025, which is beyond ****ing ridiculous.

 

[119others]

You basically have 4 players, and 3 positions for them to play. The fundamental assumption here has to be that Fog, TT & Luko would be expected to play every game, and Tex around 1/2 - 2/3 of all games. That works well if one of the first 3 gets injured, but how does it work if they don't?

for logic based arguments surely you are acknowledging injuries are a real thing??. I had the same discussion with someone about needing more than the core 3 KPDs (inc third tall). you need MORE than the bare minimum amount of quality players for the relevant positions to be filled. Impossible to imagine all 4 players are available for all/vast majority of games and even in the 1% chance they are, then Luko is FLEXIBLE and moves to connector or wing role

2024

Forwards
TT - missed 75% of season
Tex - will miss circa 25% of season (and likely higher next year in his last year)

Backs
Murray - missed 65% of season
Worrell - missed 50% of season
Butts - missed - 30%+ of season

 

[ABAB]

Why would he put his career on hold for a year, which is what you're expecting him to do?

Better than 2 years at GCS and then traded when his value will even be way less, also he will likely get another 2 years contract extension on a bit more than money.

 

[Vader]

for logic based arguments surely you are acknowledging injuries are a real thing??. I had the same discussion with someone about needing more than the core 3 KPDs (inc third tall). you need MORE than the bare minimum amount of quality players for the relevant positions to be filled. Impossible to imagine all 4 players are available for all/vast majority of games and even in the 1% chance they are, then Luko is FLEXIBLE and moves to connector or wing role

2024

Forwards
TT - missed 75% of season
Tex - will miss circa 25% of season (and likely higher next year in his last year)

Backs
Murray - missed 65% of season
Worrell - missed 50% of season
Butts - missed - 30%+ of season

... and we're back where we started again.

Yes, injuries happen. You make contingency plans in case they happen. You don't go into a season with a contingency plan as your Plan A, unless you have a pre-existing long-term injury.

What happens if Fog/TT/Tex don't have a long-term injury? Luko ends up playing the 1/3-1/2 season when we rest Tex. I'm sure he'd be signing on quickly with that prospect in mind!

 

[Vader]

Better than 2 years at GCS and then traded when his value will even be way less, also he will likely get another 2 years contract extension on a bit more than money.

But nowhere near as good as signing for a different club, where he can be guaranteed an AFL game every week.

The threat of VFL games is a good reason to leave GC. It is not a reason for him to sign with Adelaide.

 

[ABAB]

But nowhere near as good as signing for a different club, where he can be guaranteed an AFL game every week.

The threat of VFL games is a good reason to leave GC. It is not a reason for him to sign with Adelaide.

And again, he is from Adelaide which is the same advantage we had with Rankine when Essendon chased him with a bigger contract. And again, he is also a Crows supporter which is the same advantage we had with Rankine who was reported by Port Power that he didn't even want to meet with them when he requested to be trade back to his home state.

 

[Mutineer]

Just too many quality players in one area of the ground.

We have notable weaknesses, particularly in the midfield, ruck & small forwards. Luko is none of these - he's competing for a place in an area where we have quality.

What quality tall high half forwards with elite foot skills and good tanks do we have?

 

[Vader]

And again, he is from Adelaide which is the same advantage we had with Rankine when Essendon chased him with a bigger contract. And again, he is also a Crows supporter which is the same advantage we had with Rankine who was reported by Port Power that he didn't even want to meet with them when he requested to be trade back to his home state.

Of course, you continue to ignore the key factor - we were able to guarantee Rankine a position in our best 22 from the day he walked into the club. We can't make that same guarantee to Luko, while Tex remains on the list.

Why do you continue to ignore this crucial factor?

I get the pull of home, but the inability to guarantee him a spot in our best 22 is far more critical than a feel good factor like "being back in his home state". AFL players have a finite shelf life, and no AFL footballer is going to willingly put his career on hold for 12 months in his prime, just to play in his home state.

 

[Vader]

What quality tall high half forwards with elite foot skills and good tanks do we have?

He's competing against Tex for a position in the team.

 

[Mutineer]

He's competing against Tex for a position in the team.

Only in Vader World.

Luko walks into our best 22 wherever he plays.

 

[Hodgy]

Why TF would he do it? Just because he's a Crows supporter isn't a reason.

He wants out of GC because he doesn't want to spend large chunks of the season playing in the VFL. Why then would he move to a club where he's likely to spend large chunks of the season playing in the SANFL? It's an epic logic failure.

Surely he'd opt instead for a club where he's likely to spend the entire season playing in the AFL.

No chance Luko would play 2’s here. His potential behind the ball or on the wing makes him a top 8 player here straight away. Maybe even a Tom Lynch role, but either way our key forwards will kick 15 goals a year more each with him delivering the ball

 

[119others]

... and we're back where we started again.

Yes, injuries happen. You make contingency plans in case they happen. You don't go into a season with a contingency plan as your Plan A, unless you have a pre-existing long-term injury.

What happens if Fog/TT/Tex don't have a long-term injury? Luko ends up playing the 1/3-1/2 season when we rest Tex. I'm sure he'd be signing on quickly with that prospect in mind!

apologies didnt see your previous chat re this issue specifically. ANd of course he isnt going to sign on with us if told he aint going to be playing much in 2025 AND we wouldnt be trading for him either in that instance

The way I see it (1) Injuries are inevitable - look at our experience this year for KPF and KPD I posted, (2) Tex turning 35 next year and IMO plays 50-65% of the season at most (unless huge injury issues for other players he perhaps plays more) and wont play most interstate games, (3) even in the 1% chance ALL the other 3 are available each week (ignoring point 2 re Tex) we can still make it work with Lukos flexibility anyway.

To me get him on the cheap - trade wise - and its a no brainer. He has got elite attributes and one of the best kicks in the league. The game is getting progressively softer and the fact he isnt a hard player is LESS of an issue than what it would have been 5-20 years ago (but still not ideal). As long as he camps himself under the incoming ball to make a contest in a big final then I see his 3rd tall, connector, wing role as being very suitable to his skill set

 

[Vader]

No chance Luko would play 2’s here. His potential behind the ball or on the wing makes him a top 8 player here straight away. Maybe even a Tom Lynch role, but either way our key forwards will kick 15 goals a year more each with him delivering the ball

15 goals a year more each? Holy exaggeration, Batman!

 

[119others]

He's competing against Tex for a position in the team.

thats a very singular view. One of the attractions of Luko is his flexibility - I thought that was obvious. He plays every game next year. Mostly up forward I imagine as 3rd roaming tall or else either connector role or wingman