Preview 2024 Rd 20 Carlton vs Port Adelaide Friday 26th July 7:40PM AEST @ Marvel Stadium

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …

3 Changes

AFL team news: Three big additions

Mitch McGovern is among a trio of inclusions for Friday night football.

www.carltonfc.com.au

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[Coops93]

I've wondered this all season, but why is it that Harry and Charlie very rarely get uncontested easy marks inside 50? I understand they aren't a regular occurance for any key forward, but for them it seems doubly so.

The likes of Hogan, Hawkins for years, Cameron come to mind as guys who are able to somehow find a few metres of space and have easy marks. It feels like every time Charlie and H try and mark inside 50 they are smashed.

Is it delivery? Gameplan? Workrate? Probably on some level a combination of all, but I'd just love to see a couple of simply chips to easy marks for these guys. Charlie in particular seems to cop a working over every week and gets no freebies at all. Despite oppo fans whinging about free kicks I could easily argue he should be receiving more.

So, coincidentally, I post this and AFL 360 does a bit on it.

They showed that we rarely block for Charlie and he is always having to beat his man 1v1. Further, the smalls (they showed several.clips of Owies) are blocking his leading space but just standing in front - which means Charlie has to lead up and beat his man on a lead as well as Owies defender who's playing in front.

A combination of these means he just never get a clear run at the ball and is always contesting either 1v1 or 2v1, due to his teammates not helping or worse yet getting in the way and making it worse.

 

[Osc1]

So, coincidentally, I post this and AFL 360 does a bit on it.

They showed that we rarely block for Charlie and he is always having to beat his man 1v1. Further, the smalls (they showed several.clips of Owies) are blocking his leading space but just standing in front - which means Charlie has to lead up and beat his man on a lead as well as Owies defender who's playing in front.

A combination of these means he just never get a clear run at the ball and is always contesting either 1v1 or 2v1, due to his teammates not helping or worse yet getting in the way and making it worse.

The answer is Jack Martin. Always has been.

 

[katmanblue]

He also turned at least 2 over - what might that cost us in a GF?

IMHO - Ollie does some good defensive things - but he’s often been slow to dispose of the ball & has been caught holding it , often can’t stick tackles & his disposal is 50/50.

He needs time in the 2’s to focus on his strengths & work on his weaknesses.

I’d like to see Cerra to his wing.

Walsh gets caught more often and turns it over frequently too. I don't see anyone saying he should spend time in the vfl.

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[Arr0w]

Have they earned a selection? How about just select Young, Martin and say Fantasia. Melodramatic much.

Case in point, we've already seen the rhetoric regarding all 3 of these players

 

[jj1978]

Could you imagine if we selected Akuei, Moir and Monahan because they were fresh and healthy, then lose?

This joint would riot, SelEcTion iNteGrity

Selection integrity is dropping fit performing players for non match fit better players or non in form players based on positioning. Not dropping them for management and rest reasons whereby they don’t even play VFL or a full VFL game to just get a light run instead.

 

[Arr0w]

Selection integrity is dropping fit performing players for non match fit better players or non in form players based on positioning. Not dropping them for management and rest reasons whereby they don’t even play VFL or a full VFL game to just get a light run instead.

Everyone has a different slant, but what I don't get is people calling for certain players to be the ins and outs, then completing flip a game later

Way too reactive, it's purely win/loss analysis and or stat sheet based

 

[gab213]

Selection integrity is dropping fit performing players for non match fit better players or non in form players based on positioning. Not dropping them for management and rest reasons whereby they don’t even play VFL or a full VFL game to just get a light run instead.

I think it's a term people use when they can't make an argument against a selection in a meaningful or compelling way. Say it often enough and people start believing it means something.

What it really means is, 'I disagree with/don't like the choice'. Therefore there has to be something wrong with it, let me validate my opinion by using a meaningless phrase.

 

[Arr0w]

I think it's a term people use when they can't make an argument against a selection in a meaningful or compelling way. Say it often enough and people start believing it means something.

What it really means is, 'I disagree with/don't like the choice'. Therefore there has to be something wrong with it, let me validate my opinion by using a meaningless phrase.

It's a great point

For me, it's like suggesting the coaches are purposely picking a ceratin team to lose, when its a belief they are selecting a team to beat a certain opposition

You look at the best 23 thread, about the majority of players are in everyone's side, the balance, say the last 6 spots, varies considerably, which is probably similar for the coaches

 

[Blues_1864]

Binns Cuningham Lord Young were the types I was referring to. Not many others available I would call “Borderline”

Yes. And I would play the 3 fresh players, provided there is some way to reshuffle and make it reasonably like-for-like with respect to the stars that miss. Two reasons:

1) If some of our senior players are really struggling to get up week after week, there's only so many times they can go back to the well. Sooner or later they break down completely, or are so hampered they can't play their role properly, and we lose anyway. Seen that too often, Cripps in the Teague years a prime example.

2) None of the players are robots. I'm a big believer in giving our fringe players responsibility and backing them in, to get the best out of them. We saw good footy from Young when Weitering was out for a few weeks in 2022 - some players grow confidence from responsibility. If Acres is out, try to turn it into a positive, Ollie leads our running brigade, Binns gets to step up and walk the talk. Put Cuningham into the starting 22, and emphasise that we are relying on him for a certain role. Retain Carroll. These are all things I hope we do, if we have a handful of established players (beyond De Koning and Durdin) struggling to get up from last week.

Does depend on personnel though, I admit. If McKay misses, that will really hurt. I think we'll have to pick Martin and hope for the best - and it might be time for that anyway, we need to try and bed Martin down in this side before the finals.

 

[JustOneTime]

It's a great point

For me, it's like suggesting the coaches are purposely picking a ceratin team to lose, when its a belief they are selecting a team to beat a certain opposition

You look at the best 23 thread, about the majority of players are in everyone's side, the balance, say the last 6 spots, varies considerably, which is probably similar for the coaches

I think this draws out a good point.

Within reason and forgetting the week-to-week crazies, most of the more reasoned supporters/posters on here look at the 'output' alone because that is all they can go on and select their best 22. The accusation levelled at them is lack of inside knowledge to the plan/selection/hard work which is a very decent point.

Having said that, inside knowledge is also a double edged sword for the coaches. They have inside knowledge on the players and have favourites based on their personalities. Marchbank (maybe Pitto, A Joseph some time ago with Ratten) being cases in point. Marchbank is a favourite of the coaches (and mine too) based on what he might do for us in the future. Literally nothing to do based on output.

Sometimes i think Vossy needs an outsider who sits there with no relationship knowledge of teacher pet types...and says 'not Marchy again mate - he will be out again next week and you are hurting Kemp's confidence!

I think we lack nuance with some of our selection due to lack of insider gameplan but they too get it wrong a lot by over investment in personalities/stories.

what is my point...

• Sometimes output based selection may be better, sometimes it may not
• The MC and Vossy shouldnt be put on a pedestal at all. Supported and questioned in equal doses.

 

[Drexl 31]

We smash Port. They aint that flash.

 

[Manhattanite]

He also turned at least 2 over - what might that cost us in a GF?

IMHO - Ollie does some good defensive things - but he’s often been slow to dispose of the ball & has been caught holding it , often can’t stick tackles & his disposal is 50/50.

He needs time in the 2’s to focus on his strengths & work on his weaknesses.

I’d like to see Cerra to his wing.

I don’t think the VFL is the right learning place for Ollie - from memory both his turnovers were due to not anticipating the nearby opponent cutting off the ball when he chose to kick it to a teammate - and because the opponents were able to read his mind effectively

And so I don’t believe a VFL player is going to apply the same pressure or read the play the same way - so Ollie needs to play AFL and learn from the mistakes there - it’s going to cost us some turnovers but in the longer term he’s going to be better for it and so will we as a side

The same is true for Cowan and Kemp - they have some frustrating turnovers but it’s better for their development to now learn at the AFL level because they’ve learnt what they can at VFL level - and we just need to support them the best we can






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[Manhattanite]

We smash Port. They aint that flash.

At our best we can smash Port (and did smash them) - but we aren’t at our best and aren’t applying enough pressure (we had an incredibly poor 130 pressure rating in the second quarter against North before responding with an elite 260 in the third quarter) and also have players playing while injured and not at their best.

So it’s going to be a real slog. Just need the four points, no new injuries and play with good habits to set us up for September.

None of our five remaining games are against teams expected to make Finals - but each presents its own challenges. Just need to do the basics right and take it one game at a time.


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[windows1]

Key to beating Port is applying pressure the whole game. Have to pick 23 capable of that.

 

[JustOneTime]

Didnt we only pull away from Port in the last qtr last time. Given how bad we are playing right now and injuries, I hope they are not planning on revenge!!

I'm sick at having to jump at shadows but our form warrants a high ****ing jump!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I just wanted to point out that Hoyney from Champion Data was on SEN, and he said that they decide when a clearance has occurred. Cripps we know gets genuine clearances. I saw Carroll gets hands on the ball a few times at centre bounces and dispose of it to a team-mate. He might not have been given the official clearance, but he certainly contributed to more clearances than the 1 he was given by champion data.

Sometimes it's the final player who roosts it forward who gets awarded the clearance, despite the work of others that gets the ball free.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Also on that SEN segment, it was stated that 19 of the last 20 premiers have come from those that have the best turnover differential. Sydney lead this boy double the next team mid year. Carlton are 2nd now but just 4 points. Our finals game is in good shape, regardless of the other areas we are falling down in right now.

 

[Accidental genius]

Key to beating Port is applying pressure the whole game. Have to pick 23 capable of that.

No different to any other week..

Our lack of a KPD is a real worry

Kemp dropped last week for a Learning tour to the vfl so I don’t expect him back just yet

Sam durdin finished

Young can’t do it

Marchy totally unreliable and also out of form

Weits and then maybe Gov?

Huge problem this week

 

[Chookaradley]

No different to any other week..

Our lack of a KPD is a real worry

Kemp dropped last week for a Learning tour to the vfl so I don’t expect him back just yet

Sam durdin finished

Young can’t do it

Marchy totally unreliable and also out of form

Weits and then maybe Gov?

Huge problem this week

Kemp will come straight back in. Our best combination is Kemp Weiner's and Mgovern. That's pretty obvious. Kemps shortcoming is he just doesn't have the necessary size and strength. Needs a big pre season in the gym

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Walsh gets caught more often and turns it over frequently too. I don't see anyone saying he should spend time in the vfl.

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If we are seriously comparing Ollie to Walsh, the point is missed.

 

[Arr0w]

Coaches selecting "favourites" rather than best players for team output? Fallacy

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

So, coincidentally, I post this and AFL 360 does a bit on it.

They showed that we rarely block for Charlie and he is always having to beat his man 1v1. Further, the smalls (they showed several.clips of Owies) are blocking his leading space but just standing in front - which means Charlie has to lead up and beat his man on a lead as well as Owies defender who's playing in front.

A combination of these means he just never get a clear run at the ball and is always contesting either 1v1 or 2v1, due to his teammates not helping or worse yet getting in the way and making it worse.

This is why our forward line transforms when Jack Martin plays. We have minimal IQ amongst the smalls

 

[Accidental genius]

Kemp will come straight back in. Our best combination is Kemp Weiner's and Mgovern. That's pretty obvious. Kemps shortcoming is he just doesn't have the necessary size and strength. Needs a big pre season in the gym

Agreed. I’m a bit filthy with the MC…for dropping kemp last week.

Can’t believe they tried to bring in injury riddled Marchy in ahead of him.

Was an unnecessary disruption to the team imo.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I don’t think the VFL is the right learning place for Ollie - from memory both his turnovers were due to not anticipating the nearby opponent cutting off the ball when he chose to kick it to a teammate - and because the opponents were able to read his mind effectively

And so I don’t believe a VFL player is going to apply the same pressure or read the play the same way - so Ollie needs to play AFL and learn from the mistakes there - it’s going to cost us some turnovers but in the longer term he’s going to be better for it and so will we as a side

The same is true for Cowan and Kemp - they have some frustrating turnovers but it’s better for their development to now learn at the AFL level because they’ve learnt what they can at VFL level - and we just need to support them the best we can






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Noting Cowan and Kemp both can turn the ball over, they’ve both spent time in the 2’s as part of their development, while Ollie has played every game on the team.

If the team is as banged up as were led to believe, surely Ollie could benefit from a refresher in the 2’s.

Cowan and Kemp are helped playing in defensive group with players around them who can support.

Ollie playing wing is a lone hand & other teams will try to play through, given his lack of strength, height & speed.

I’m not potting Ollie for the sake of it, I genuinely worry whenever he has the ball that he will turn it over, be pushed off the ball, miss a crucial tackle or be caught when running with the ball - all in the midfield where the cost of turnover is heightened.

He did a few good things again on the weekend, but I think his wing could be better occupied by Cerra, at this stage.

We need to be honest with ourselves - are we a potential premiership team this year, or a developing team still?

I think the former & as such need to identify & mitigate our weaknesses where we can.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

This is why our forward line transforms when Jack Martin plays. We have minimal IQ amongst the smalls

Jacks been out of the team for so long many have forgotten what he brings. He’ll be a very important inclusion for us.

To your point though - why isn’t the forward coach addressing these issues - surely this is forward coaching 1.0.1.