Rumour 2024 Rumours and Speculation Part 3

[Carn The Texan]

I suggest you check Jordan'6 kicking efficiency.


Butts 84.3%

Borlase 81.7%

Keane 79.3%

Murray 76.5%

I'd take Keane at 79 over Butts at 84 percent efficiency every day of the week. They deliver a completely different type of disposal for those efficiencies.

 

[Mutineer]

I'd take Keane at 79 over Butts at 84 percent efficiency every day of the week. They deliver a completely different type of disposal for those efficiencies.

Very different players with very different roles.

And the discussion was more Butts vs Borlase anyhow.

 

[Carn The Texan]

So many underrate (a fit) Butts' ability to completely negate. So many times live watched Keane leave his man for the spectacular and bitch at teammates when they didn't cover for him. Keane attacking overrated (one great kick to several less so) and defence can be pretty dodgy.
for balance against the better forwards need a defender who can actually negate and if he kicks the ball safely so be it.

He's very good at that but in a team that already has Murray in it I'm happy to go with a Murray/Keane combo as first choice. If the opposition is stacked with tall timber by all means bring him in, I just don't see him as first choice best 22 with our current list. I say that knowing he will play at least 15 games this year either due to injury or tactical assessment of opposition forwards which I am more than comfortable with.

 

[Carn The Texan]

Very different players with very different roles.

Totally but we have Murray already in that primary 1v1 role and if you need extra support in a contest Keane is still a big body. He's a lot more physical than most players who can play that intercept role.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'd take Keane at 79 over Butts at 84 percent efficiency every day of the week. They deliver a completely different type of disposal for those efficiencies.

Keane is better with ball in hand & better interceptor.

Butts is better if we need to lockdown on a forward.

Horses for courses.

 

[Gtowncrow]

A year is a very long time in football, and being out of contract is a dangerous time for anyone not in the best 22.

The main worry for Nankervis is if Cummings and Hinge put up big numbers, Milera finds form (and both parties don't look at FA) and Oscar Ryan booms as a prospect. Especially if Nank doesn't fire a shot in the early part of the season. It's unlikely we'll pull the trigger this year, but you get a situation where we need an extra list spot and those things happen, we may look at Nank as expendable. The good news for Nank is destiny is in his own hand, but he needs to kick on this year.

I think it's likely we delist Taylor and Bond at the end of the year. Bond does a niche role, but with Michaelanny we may opt to just not have it (and considering we only gave him a year after a pretty hot run, I doubt we're too keen on the idea of Bond as a locked in best 22 member at this point) and Taylor is just in no-mans-land as a prospect with Draper coming in and Edwards being in a position to also challenge for a best 22 spot.

Can't argue with your rationale.
I would add to this line of thinking that Smith, Laird and Crouch would also be vulnerable. Smith especially.

Add Burgess and Walker and we already have quite a list turnover. It's a big year for quite a few.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Totally but we have Murray already in that primary 1v1 role and if you need extra support in a contest Keane is still a big body. He's a lot more physical than most players who can play that intercept role.

You could just as well argue we already have the playmaker interceptor role sorted through Worrell. I rate a fully fit Butts slightly above Keane but I think whoever plays ultimately comes down to match ups.

 

[The Shapeshifter]

You could just as well argue we already have the playmaker interceptor role sorted through Worrell. I rate a fully fit Butts slightly above Keane but I think whoever plays ultimately comes down to match ups.

That doesn't make sense, it's like saying we don't need our forwards to defend because we've a.ready got the defensive forward role locked in.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

That doesn't make sense, it's like saying we don't need our forwards to defend because we've a.ready got the defensive forward role locked in.

That is partly my point, the post I was replying to suggested Butts was not required because we already have a 1v1 defender in Murray.

 

[SLOWNE]

You’re right about Borlase as a back up but ATM there’s little to choose between Borlase and Butts. Jordan has him for height (4cm) and reach but James is stronger, more durable and a better kick. Both lack pace and athleticism and we have better options than either.

A lot of people forgetting that Butts is a sensational 1v1 defender when 100% healthy. Now we have the depth, Jordon should really only be considered for selection when 100% fit.

I like the attacking play of Keane, Muzz, Wozz etc, but having Butts ready to step in as a class negater is great.

That said, if he gets stuck in the 2's and is healthy at years end, I'd expect him to look for other opportunities as I think he is too good to be playing 2nds. Could be good trade collateral seeing what other clubs are paying for bog standard defenders.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You could just as well argue we already have the playmaker interceptor role sorted through Worrell. I rate a fully fit Butts slightly above Keane but I think whoever plays ultimately comes down to match ups.

For me it really comes down to horses for courses depending on the opposition forward line.

N Murray & Worrell pick themselves.

Then it's a case of matchup whether we need to lockdown on another key forward with Butts or go more attacking with Keane.

I hope at times we try Worrell in other roles up the ground, allowing us to use N Murray, Butts & Keane.

We really should be smarter with our player management, rotating around 30 players during the season.

 

[Ham]

For me it really comes down to horses for courses depending on the opposition forward line.

N Murray & Worrell pick themselves.

Then it's a case of matchup whether we need to lockdown on another key forward with Butts or go more attacking with Keane.

I hope at tines we try Worrell in other roles up the ground, allowing us to use N Murray, Butts & Keane.

We really should be smarter with our player management, rotating around 30 players during the season.

I'd love for us to see if Butts can ruck

 

[Mutineer]

I'd love for us to see if Butts can ruck

I'd love too see Butts allowed to play his natural game, the player we've been watching at the Crows is nothing like the player I watched for 3 years at the Murray Bushrangers and Vic Country.

Even his profile on the club website suggests he was a different player.


Butts

Recruited from the Murray Bushrangers, Jordon Butts was selected by the Crows with pick No. 39 in the 2018 Rookie Draft after he showed exceptional skill as an intercept marker and key defender. He was overlooked in the 2017 Draft but an extra year of work saw him develop into a more complete player in the TAC Cup. He also claimed a premiership with Shepparton in the Goulburn Valley League in 2018. Butts had an impressive first year in the SANFL competition, finishing fourth in Adelaide’s best and fairest. He broke through to make his AFL debut in late 2020, playing two games including the Round 17 win against Carlton. In April 2023, Butts recommitted to the Crows by signing a three-year contract extension and featured in 15 matches in 2024.

His rookie me draft bio is the player we drafted, he isn't that now.

STRENGTHS: Marking, versatility, accumulation, spread, scope
IMPROVEMENTS: Strength, defensive pressure

A year ago, Jordon Butts was one of a number of players in line to be a late/rookie selection and 12 months on it appears he is in the same position, having unluckily missed out last year. He was born on the last day of the eligible year in his top-age year, so recruiters saw he still had plenty of upside. In 2018, Butts extended his capabilities to not only being able to play up either end, but on a wing as well. He played a mixture of key position forward, key position back and through the midfield to become a "Mr Fix It" for clubs keen to mould the big man into the player they are looking for. He could still improve his strength, and his defensive pressure, but his ability to spread, take a truckload of marks and then just find the ball is very admirable for a player of his size. Butts should be seen as a long-term prospect, because even 12 months on he has made developments, and with some VFL experience under his belt, could be more prepared to land on a list.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'd love for us to see if Butts can ruck

Worth trying different things, particularly given our lack of ruck stocks.

 

[Ham]

I'd love too see Butts allowed to play his natural game, the player we've been watching at the Crows is nothing like the player I watched for 3 years at the Murray Bushrangers and Vic Country.

I remember you uploading a clip a while back and I 100% agree - even his draft profile mentions him spending time on the wing

 

[Mutineer]

I remember you uploading a clip a while back and I 100% agree - even his draft profile mentions him spending time on the wing

Like I've said previously Butts is playing his role exactly how the Coaches want him to but he can be much more if they were prepared to loosen the reins a little more. When fit he has exceptional endurance for a big fella and can play a far more attacking game and cover a lot more ground than what we are seeing currently

also from the rookie me draft bio.

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Jordon Butts is the baby of the 2017 draft crop. He is a great mark, versatile and can run all day"

 

[Ham]

Worth trying different things, particularly given our lack of ruck stocks.

yeah absolutely, with not much to lose (hopefully he disapeared from the training group for some secret sessions)

 

[Ham]

Like I've said previously Butts is playing his role exactly how the Coaches want him to but he can be much more if they were prepared to loosen the reins a little more. When fit he has exceptional endurance for a big fella and can play a far more attacking game and cover a lot more ground than what we are seeing currently

also from the rookie me draft bio.

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Jordon Butts is the baby of the 2017 draft crop. He is a great mark, versatile and can run all day"

What role would you want to see him play? Assuming he wasnt taking someone else’s spot?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[1990crow]

Like I've said previously Butts is playing his role exactly how the Coaches want him to but he can be much more if they were prepared to loosen the reins a little more. When fit he has exceptional endurance for a big fella and can play a far more attacking game and cover a lot more ground than what we are seeing currently

also from the rookie me draft bio.

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Jordon Butts is the baby of the 2017 draft crop. He is a great mark, versatile and can run all day"

This is fine, but can he do this better than Murray, Keane and Worrell? History says no.

 

[Mutineer]

This is fine, but can he do this better than Murray, Keane and Worrell? History says no.

History does not show this because he's clearly been repurposed by the coaches to play purely a lockdown KPD role.

In 2017 Jordan took more intercept marks than any other player in the NAB League/TAC Cup, he has never played that team's intercepting defender role since he joined the Crows. It's a pity you didn't watch him play as a junior or you'd know this.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is fine, but can he do this better than Murray, Keane and Worrell? History says no.

Think we can do better if the opposition forward line have 2 big tall forwards...

 

[1990crow]

History does not show this because he's clearly been repurposed by the coaches to play purely a lockdown KPD role.

In 2017 Jordan took more intercept marks than any other player in the NAB League/TAC Cup, he has never played that team's intercepting defender role since he joined the Crows. It's a pity you didn't watch him play as a junior or you'd know this.

His junior career is irrelevant this far into his career. Coaches have clearly identified a floor in his game to have him as a stopper primarily, or picking others higher up the ground.

 

[Mutineer]

His junior career is irrelevant this far into his career. Coaches have clearly identified a floor in his game to have him as a stopper primarily, or picking others higher up the ground.

Disagree, they never clearly identified anything, certainly not a flaw because intercept marking was his absolute one wood. They fashioned him into the player he is currently.

Just like they fashioned Chayce Jones into the player he is today...from the same draft year.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Butts is a mountain of a bloke now

Whatever he was as a teen is long gone

 

[hippyhippy]

Worth trying different things, particularly given our lack of ruck stocks.

We need to develop the trent Ormond allan option again....