Rumour 2024 Rumours and Speculation (Rumours total 8, last 2nd July)

[GreyCrow]

it's no great surprise that our current team is massively young & inexperienced.

Imagine if there was a way to slowly introduce that experience

Its like the club is shocked we have such a wide gap. Its not like they havent had 5 years to work on it

We are either very very bad at talent identification - draftees and tradees - or we prioritise different KPIs

 

[kirky]

There are many more ways to retain him if they want his leadership

I struggle to see this as valid

Are they talking leadership on the field coz you don’t have to be on the field to provide leadership. The game itself only goes for 2.5 hours. During the week he can provide leadership in some capacity.

I think at the moment the club is trying to make up any excuses for its poor performances this year. It is like they are going thru a notebook and once the excuse doesn’t fly they go to the next one.

 

[bigman]

I may get shot down for saying this but after watching the rudderless performances over the past few weeks and most of the year i do think we need to get in some players with proven leadership abilities and an uncompromising nature to help our younger players for the next year or two.

I cannot believe with the obvious exception of Dawson and Tex in an unofficial capacity that we have anyone out there who is exhibiting these traits on game day. Certainly not Hinge with his brain fart; Murphy who cannot get near it and ROB and Smithy who are struggling atm.

I would be looking at Parker from the Swans; Jack Graham

34

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

0.0

1star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

G

1.0

4star

from the Swans and Elliot Yeo

6

Elliot Yeo

Age

30

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.5

5star

MG

377.9

5star

D

18.9

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

5.8

5star

MG

287.4

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.6

3star

from the Eagles as potential pick ups. One of these for the midfield and Parker maybe for the forward half. I think Murray can give us the necessary leadership in the back half.

These players will not cost us much from a drafting perspective but will help us out in the short term to get some backbone into our side which is sorely lacking atm.

 

[Vader]

We were older than Hawthorn and still got pantsed.

We were 1 month younger, they were more experienced (97 to 90.8 games per player). Our team which played against Sydney had barely 2/3 the experience of the team which played against Hawthorn.

Age & experience are not the be all and end all, but the lack of both is usually catastrophic to a team's chances - and rarely have we selected teams which are younger & less experienced than the team which played on Saturday night.

 

[Scorpus]

Our deficit in experience is entirely our fault

- Draft sanctions in 2012 and 2013 due to our incompetent list management and spineless board

- Poor drafting between 2015 and 2019 due to bad recruiting staff and player development

- Failure to retain young talent drafted between 2013 and 2015 due to abysmal club culture set by the coaching staff and administration, endorsed by a pathetic board

- Investing games into the wrong players at the expense of younger more talented players due to horrendous coaching and bad development, endorsed by the board and football department through unwarranted contract extensions

 

[MRB37]

Depends what you mean

My theory at the time was that Charlie's girlfriend didn't like Mrs Betts seemingly being in charge / mothering eg chopping up veggies and hiding it in Charlie's food so that he'd eat them

But it was us who let him walk while under contract
And us who signed Jenkins, Lynch, Sloane, Jacobs et al on top dollar contracts allowing no room to retain Charlie, Gov, Lever

He won't come back while Roo is here, but maybe we need to ask Alan Stewart to come back as a consultant since he told the team to sell a few oth those guys before we re-signed them to long term deals.

 

[GreyCrow]

I may get shot down for saying this but after watching the rudderless performances over the past few weeks and most of the year i do think we need to get in some players with proven leadership abilities and an uncompromising nature to help our younger players for the next year or two.

I cannot believe with the obvious exception of Dawson and Tex in an unofficial capacity that we have anyone out there who is exhibiting these traits on game day. Certainly not Hinge with his brain fart; Murphy who cannot get near it and ROB and Smithy who are struggling atm.

I would be looking at Parker from the Swans; Jack Graham from the Swans and Elliot Yeo from the Eagles as potential pick ups. One of these for the midfield and Parker maybe for the forward half. I think Murray can give us the necessary leadership in the back half.

These players will not cost us much from a drafting perspective but will help us out in the short term to get some backbone into our side which is sorely lacking atm.

Lets be very clear - and to add to Scorpus post

We went hard after experience and brought in


Chris Burgess

Thats it

Added: So either the league aint buying what we are selling or we arent even looking that hard

 

[Vader]

Imagine if there was a way to slowly introduce that experience

Its like the club is shocked we have such a wide gap. Its not like they havent had 5 years to work on it

We are either very very bad at talent identification - draftees and tradees - or we prioritise different KPIs

They have done. In case you didn't notice, we had a massive clean out from 2018-2020. Since then our team has been filled with inexperienced players, slowly gaining experience.

The problem now is that the 2018-2020 clean out left only a small core of senior players, and now those few senior players we retained are reaching the ends of their careers.

Effectively we're now going back to square 1 - but without the solid core of high quality senior players that we had last time. You could almost argue we're going back to square 0.

The hope was that the next generation of players would have stepped up by now, ready to replace the likes of Sloane/Walker/Smith. Our drafting & development (mostly the latter) failures have meant that this hasn't happened. The next generation of leaders are mostly dud players, and we're still several years away from our high quality youngsters (e.g. Michelanney, Soligo) being ready for leadership roles, as they're mostly still in the sub-50 game bracket.

I wouldn't say that we're "very very bad" at talent identification, though there have been a few misses along the way (McHenry being the standout). I would say that we're very, very, very bad at developing the kids once we get them onto our team list. Sack Godden!

 

[GreyCrow]

The hope was that the next generation of players would have stepped up by now, ready to replace the likes of Sloane/Walker/Smith.

This is the bit I think you are ignoring

We CHOSE to play Walker/Sloane/Smith to the exclusion of rookies

Remember the fuss over Sloane attending CBAs? And who could have had runs through there? How Nankervis could have played Smiths role?

How Fog and RT needed clean air instead of the focus on Tex?

And lets not forget prioritising Murphy and McHenry over others

You cant step up and replace if you keep taking away the ladder

 

[Scorpus]

The problem now is that the 2018-2020 clean out left only a small core of senior players, and now those few senior players we retained are reaching the ends of their careers.

And the core of senior players we were left with for the most part didn't help with the transition to a younger team all that much. Most have ended up staying past their welcome, occupied too many prime roles in the team and offered little to no quality leadership

 

[jackster83]

They have done. In case you didn't notice, we had a massive clean out from 2018-2020. Since then our team has been filled with inexperienced players, slowly gaining experience.

The problem now is that the 2018-2020 clean out left only a small core of senior players, and now those few senior players we retained are reaching the ends of their careers.

Effectively we're now going back to square 1 - but without the solid core of high quality senior players that we had last time. You could almost argue we're going back to square 0.

The hope was that the next generation of players would have stepped up by now, ready to replace the likes of Sloane/Walker/Smith. Our drafting & development (mostly the latter) failures have meant that this hasn't happened. The next generation of leaders are mostly dud players, and we're still several years away from our high quality youngsters (e.g. Michelanney, Soligo) being ready for leadership roles, as they're mostly still in the sub-50 game bracket.

I wouldn't say that we're "very very bad" at talent identification, though there have been a few misses along the way (McHenry being the standout). I would say that we're very, very, very bad at developing the kids once we get them onto our team list. Sack Godden!

It's why we need to give up on the Jones/McHenry/Berry types and invest in the next crop. Getting them to 100+ games isn't going to make us better.

I'm curious if any of our recent draftees have captained U18 teams, as leadership and a cool head are characteristics we are badly lacking. Might be a question for Mutineer.

 

[Vader]

This is the bit I think you are ignoring

We CHOSE to play Walker/Sloane/Smith to the exclusion of rookies

Remember the fuss over Sloane attending CBAs? And who could have had runs through there? How Nankervis could have played Smiths role?

How Fog and RT needed clean air instead of the focus on Tex?

And lets not forget prioritising Murphy and McHenry over others

You cant step up and replace if you keep taking away the ladder

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

If you don't play them, then you end up with ridiculously inexperienced teams - with results like what we saw on Saturday. If we do play them, then you argue that we're taking away development opportunities for the kids. You can't have it both ways.

The fact is that kids need a solid core of quality leaders around them, and teams which don't have this will always struggle massively. Essentially, what you propose is turning us into early 2010s Gold Coast.

We built the ladder by removing a lot of the players who were fixtures in our team from 2017-2020. Compare this team with our team from R22 2020 - gone are Lynch, Brouch, Brown, Sloane, Kelly, McPherson, Mackay, McAdam, Hartigan, Talia & Stengle, with Himmelberg, Smith, ROB, Crouch and Walker still on the list but not currently in the team. What do you call that, other than a shedload of opportunities?

I'm not defending the selections of Murphy & McHenry, though I don't see that we've had a lot of other small forward alternatives for a while now.

 

[Vader]

And the core of senior players we were left with for the most part didn't help with the transition to a younger team all that much. Most have ended up staying past their welcome, occupied too many prime roles in the team and offered little to no quality leadership

I think they should have found a way to increase the CBA rotations for the youngsters, without discarding the senior players before they hit their use-by date. We've brought the kids into the team, but not given them experience in the midfield. Once again, this is poor player development.

 

[chrisso crow]

Got told yesterday from a trusted source, Brodie Smith wants to retire at the end of this year.. however the club is pushing him to keep playing next year because of a lack of leadership and senior players within the group.

I have no issue with him playing on again next year, but only if it's at SANFL level.

The issue with him staying though is that the club has proven form that they won't be able to resist playing him in the AFL team, regardless of his form.

Therefore we just have to let him go.

 

[plugger59]

I have no issue with him playing on again next year, but only if it's at SANFL level.

The issue with him staying though is that the club has proven form that they won't be able to resist playing him in the AFL team, regardless of his form.

Therefore we just have to let him go.

Aren't we already there? - so it's straight back in next week.

 

[GreyCrow]

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

If you don't play them, then you end up with ridiculously inexperienced teams - with results like what we saw on Saturday.

I think youve mistaken me as someone who wanted wins over games in the early years of the rebuild.

If we do play them, then you argue that we're taking away development opportunities for the kids. You can't have it both ways.

That is my argument

The fact is that kids need a solid core of quality leaders around them, and teams which don't have this will always struggle massively. Essentially, what you propose is turning us into early 2010s Gold Coast.

But you can do both. It seems as if you and the club function in a world where leaders must play their best spots.

Sloane, Smith, Laird, Crouch can all play reduced roles or peripheral spots like HB and FP etc - you still have Sloane as an on field leader but playing primarily as a FP. Laird can play BP while still running through the middle same with Smith playing reduced games either side of a bye etc

Walker is your only player who can only play 2 spots - but managing his game load - which was mooted is an option

We built the ladder by removing a lot of the players who were fixtures in our team from 2017-2020. Compare this team with our team from R22 2020 - gone are Lynch, Brouch, Brown, Sloane, Kelly, McPherson, Mackay, McAdam, Hartigan, Talia & Stengle, with Himmelberg, Smith, ROB, Crouch and Walker still on the list but not currently in the team. What do you call that, other than a shedload of opportunities?

Walker, Crouch would be in the team if not for injury . Smith and RoB have only recently been dropped so thats a misdirection

I'm not defending the selections of Murphy & McHenry, though I don't see that we've had a lot of other small forward alternatives for a while now.

Isnt hf the spot we learn about our future midfielders? Or can only Murphy play HF

 

[Vader]

But you can do both. It seems as if you and the club function in a world where leaders must play their best spots.

Sloane, Smith, Laird, Crouch can all play reduced roles or peripheral spots like HB and FP etc - you still have Sloane as an on field leader but playing primarily as a FP. Laird can play BP while still running through the middle same with Smith playing reduced games either side of a bye etc

Make up your mind. Are you pushing the "we should re-role the senior players, to give the youngsters more opportunities in the key roles", or "get the seniors out completely, to create more positions in which to develop the youngsters"? I was reading your responses as meaning the latter, and I apologise if I was misinterpreting your meaning. I agree with the former, but disagree vehemently with the latter.

Walker is your only player who can only play 2 spots - but managing his game load - which was mooted is an option

I am 100% sure they intended to manage his game load... until reality intervened (i.e. TT & Berg being MIA due to injury, with Burgess & Gollant sucking so badly that we had to resort to Borlase). Sometimes reality sucks.

Walker, Crouch would be in the team if not for injury . Smith and RoB have only recently been dropped so thats a misdirection

Probably... and our team, and youth development, would be better for having (a fit) Crouch & Walker in the team. Getting smashed every week, as will inevitably happen with a lack of experience/leadership, does very little for the confidence of the youngsters.

Isnt hf the spot we learn about our future midfielders? Or can only Murphy play HF

We really don't have a lot of small-mid sized options, capable of playing HF or rotating between HF/mid. We already have Rankine & Rachele doing it. Pedlar's form in 2024 has been diabolical. That leaves Murphy & McHenry. Who else are you suggesting?

 

[bonehilda]

Yeah i don't disagree. But on-field experience for us is lacking, you don't want a team full of inexperience running around like headless chooks.

Many of our experienced players are the ones running around like headless chooks though

Many of our leaders and experienced players are just straight up damaging to the next crop. I do not want the young guys emulating anything about them

 

[Mutineer]

It's why we need to give up on the Jones/McHenry/Berry types and invest in the next crop. Getting them to 100+ games isn't going to make us better.

I'm curious if any of our recent draftees have captained U18 teams, as leadership and a cool head are characteristics we are badly lacking. Might be a question for Mutineer.

Will this do for starters?

Dan Curtin captained the Claremont Colts to their Premiership
Charlie Edwards was a school captain at Melbourne Grammar (Perry House)
Max Michalanney Co-captain SA U18's
Jake Soligo captained the Eastern Ranges
Hugh Bond captained the GWV Rebels.
Fischer McAsey captained Caulfield Grammar in the APS school comp.
Chayce Jones captained both the Tassie Mariners and the Allies at the Nationals
Ronin OÇonnor captain Claremont Colts
Jordan Gallucci captained the Eastern Ranges and Co-Captained Vic Metro
Luke Pedlar captained Prince Alfred College

 

[Mutineer]

Make up your mind. Are you pushing the "we should re-role the senior players, to give the youngsters more opportunities in the key roles", or "get the seniors out completely, to create more positions in which to develop the youngsters"? I was reading your responses as meaning the latter, and I apologise if I was misinterpreting your meaning. I agree with the former, but disagree vehemently with the latter.

I am 100% sure they intended to manage his game load... until reality intervened (i.e. TT & Berg being MIA due to injury, with Burgess & Gollant sucking so badly that we had to resort to Borlase). Sometimes reality sucks.

Probably... and our team, and youth development, would be better for having (a fit) Crouch & Walker in the team. Getting smashed every week, as will inevitably happen with a lack of experience/leadership, does very little for the confidence of the youngsters.

We really don't have a lot of small-mid sized options, capable of playing HF or rotating between HF/mid. We already have Rankine & Rachele doing it. Pedlar's form in 2024 has been diabolical. That leaves Murphy & McHenry. Who else are you suggesting?

Zac Taylor was drafted as small midfielder/forward, can't see why he can't come in and play forward with a run in the midfield as required?

 

[bigman]

Lets be very clear - and to add to Scorpus post

We went hard after experience and brought in


Chris Burgess

Thats it

Added: So either the league aint buying what we are selling or we arent even looking that hard

it has to be quality not quantity - the right type of people who have tasted success, know how to lead on field and will be respected by team mates.

I never understood why we went after Burgess when there were boys in the draft that were equally as good or had more potential in the long term.

 

[jackster83]

Will this do for starters?

Dan Curtin captained the Claremont Colts to their Premiership
Charlie Edwards was a school captain at Melbourne Grammar (Perry House)
Max Michalanney Co-captain SA U18's
Jake Soligo captained the Eastern Ranges
Hugh Bond captained the GWV Rebels.
Fischer McAsey captained Caulfield Grammar in the APS school comp.
Chayce Jones captained both the Tassie Mariners and the Allies at the Nationals
Ronin OÇonnor captain Claremont Colts
Jordan Gallucci captained the Eastern Ranges and Co-Captained Vic Metro
Luke Pedlar captained Prince Alfred College

Thanks for that.

 

[Vader]

Zac Taylor was drafted as small midfielder/forward, can't see why he can't come in and play forward with a run in the midfield as required?

Agreed, and I hope that happens soon. However, it's only recently that Taylor has stepped up, with SANFL performances demanding senior selection. He really wasn't a viable option for replacing Murphy or McHenry in 2022 or 2023, which is why they've been fixtures in the team for so long.

I think of Murphy & McHenry as being similar to Petrenko - placeholders who survive due to a lack of alternatives, and who will hopefully be gone as soon as a better option presents itself (as happened with Petrenko).

 

[Vader]

it has to be quality not quantity - the right type of people who have tasted success, know how to lead on field and will be respected by team mates.

I never understood why we went after Burgess when there were boys in the draft that were equally as good or had more potential in the long term.

Because we had long-term injuries at both ends of the ground (Murray & Thilthorpe), in a year where we were expected to be pressing for finals. Burgess offered the ability to fill holes at both ends of the ground, as needed. A new recruit, particularly one taken late in the draft, would not be able to do that in 2024 (even if they would in later years).

Burgess filled an identified need. Unfortunately, he sucks, and he hasn't filled those holes anywhere near as well as we had hoped.

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

Many of our experienced players are the ones running around like headless chooks though

Many of our leaders and experienced players are just straight up damaging to the next crop. I do not want the young guys emulating anything about them

As Vader mentioned above it's a delicate balance. I'm certainly not saying we've managed to get that balance right at all. Our season is done, and although i'd be more inclined to get more games into newer players, you can't tip all the eggs into that basket without having at least a few old heads on the park.