List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Saint believer]

There will not be a new offer to Battle. I told you all at the start of the season. We have a value for Battle in terms of salary cap and we have a value for Battle in terms of return on the market.

We are currently at our salary limit. He has a 6 year offer from us. Unfortunately a mixture of poor form and big offers look him leaving is the most likely option.

The situation as it stands has us of the belief it’s a first round compo - and that would exceed our external value (There isn’t a poster on here that wouldn’t think it’s good list management if you could nab a top 5 pick for Battle). That doesn’t mean we are happy he leaves (likely not guaranteed) just that the outcome is acceptable.

Feel like one of Ross or Membrey goes. Looking like Tim.

They are keen to see how much value Howard can recover for the rest of the year. Similar to Battle. Thing with key backs is that clubs are willing to offer overs on salary for free ones. Keep an eye on a few of Adelaide’s tall backs as a potential replacement.

No free agent this year as it stands. They are looking at older players on the fringes they can get for cheap for a year or 2 or 3 that don’t hinder the cap space. Doggies have one or two we like.

Expect a really decent turnover at years end. More focus on youth again.

Hypothetically if you have 2 top 5 picks in this particular draft. You are laughing. Draper and Jagga Smith?

We are also keen on a late first. Think Hotton could fall into that range.

I’ll also leave you with this. North Melbourne desperately wants Trainor. They are willing to trade back from pick 1 to land this kid. We are aware of this as long as it doesn’t cost first rounders.

Max Hall. No idea who he was the other week. But SOS and Dalrymple think he could be top 5 in the Liston trophy if it was happening today. Thats not saying he even makes it at the level. But they like some of the intangibles he has and is a different mix to our current listed players.

Hope you are all well. Footy is shit when your side sucks (again!) but this isn’t full rebuild. There is a few things coming to light now that the blowtorch is applied that needs to be corrected. It will be.

good to have you back Stav

 

[MrFoster]

If we bottom out the whole admin will take the blame as they exit but they'll have done the hard work and set us up before Tassie come in.

I'd prefer keep Batts too but good defenders, wingers and forwards* are useless if your mids are crappy.

Agree.. if we had a top midfield, having Brad Hill would be the cream on top.. He would tear it up on the wing, darting bullets down the forwards’ chest.. But with a poor midfield, he couldn’t get the ball unless it’s in congestion, which is not his go…

Only if our past coaches could recognise the big black hole in the midfield

An an ideal world we most desperately need a centre clearance beast who can shrug or step around congestion and kick goals. They don't grow on trees I know. Smilie looks the closest to that early on. O'Sullivan looks a star, just whether or not he ends up making it on the inside, or is more of a wingman/half forward. Jagga smith looks a clearance beast, but Is pretty small. His skills looks sloppy, so not sold on him yet. I think Sam lalor could be the one if he stays injury free for the rest of the year. Good size, has good burst of speed and good overhead. Looking forward to see who jumps from the pack over the champs.

Basically need Jason Horne-Francis * 2… In the Suns * Bombers game.. you can see Rowell and Anderson putting out the don’t argue and burst forward whilst taking out 1-2 would be tacklers instantly..

 

[The Punter]

I want us to win a premiership. That is the only thing that matters to me in this game. Bottoming out is short term pain for long term gain as far as I can see it. I absolutely hate losing but this season is gone and I can't see any point in finishing midtable again. Just my onions

North Melbourne's last finals win: 2015
Hawthorn's last finals win: 2015

I don't think the evidence shows that bottoming out is short-term at all, and the more teams that come into the competition, the more long-term it becomes. And St Kilda is uniquely susceptible to an existential crisis caused by prolonged losing and low crowds IMO.

 

[phantom13]

North Melbourne's last finals win: 2015
Hawthorn's last finals win: 2015

I don't think the evidence shows that bottoming out is short-term at all, and the more teams that come into the competition, the more long-term it becomes. And St Kilda is uniquely susceptible to an existential crisis caused by prolonged losing and low crowds IMO.

I mean Hawthorn won a threepeat 15. If they play finals next year (which is a decent chance with the way they are bulding) there isnt a team in the comp who doesnt take that sort of success cycle.

North is the anti that, i still think their kids look good but its a crapshoot if they can keep them all together and build it to something decent.

Short of being Geelong or Sydney who just seem to stay up forever most teams need to drop and refresh every so often.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The tanking debate is a non-issue.

I don’t like the idea, but halfway through the season we are not good enough so we may very will finish where we need to anyway.
I’m not saying no to a top 4/5 rather than pick 10. I can hopefully see a good bounce next year, a lot of the pieces are already in place and maturing with options to come in Sandy still.

Work on the midfield, and we look like we are in the correct area on the ladder for this anyway - without tanking.

 

[yeahfells]

We need to finish in the bottom 4 again to find our next Billings and McCartin. I'm sick of being stuck in "no man's land" where we can only find the leftover spuds like Wanganeen-Milera and Wilson.

I appreciate the sentiment but we all know the names that were available at our pick in those years. No one is disagreeing that we absolutely butchered those picks. That doesn't make Pick 1 and Pick 3 any less valuable. We have to hope that Dalrymple and co are more capable of identifying the cream now

 

[gringo2011]

Exactly. Needing to finish at the bottom to draft elite talent is a fantasy perpetuated by dullards.

Geelong have only missed finals 3 times in the past 20 years, with last years 12th being their lowest finish.

Sydney have only missed 5 times in the past 28 years.

What matters is the resources to properly identify and develop talent.

A strong culture of winning also helps and is something we can only do incrementally. Would rather take an extra decade to get where Geelong and Sydney are than to constantly yoyo out.

Geelong's best talent is still their oldest and or traded in though. The Swans got massive academy assistance too.

You do need to get top 10 picks to get more access to the elite talent if you can't get them in any other way. There are exceptions but more elite talent comes from the front end than the back end of the draft.

Bottoming out is also not a great system because kids aren't supported and under pressure. Ideally we finish around 15th and use that pick well. The season is over and doubt we will need to tank to finish around there.

 

[The Punter]

I mean Hawthorn won a threepeat 15. If they play finals next year (which is a decent chance with the way they are bulding) there isnt a team in the comp who doesnt take that sort of success cycle.

North is the anti that, i still think their kids look good but its a crapshoot if they can keep them all together and build it to something decent.

Short of being Geelong or Sydney who just seem to stay up forever most teams need to drop and refresh every so often.

They may take it, but short-term it ain't.

 

[gringo2011]

They may take it, but short-term it ain't.

Hawks and Tigers both loaded up to have one last crack at a flag and set themselves back further. We threw away a decade with terrible drafting.

 

[StCicatriz]

Shit year to tank.

The talk of sending battle to hawthorn for at best a 2nd rounder is hilarious.

Just madness.

 

[beside the seaside]

Shit year to tank.

The talk of sending battle to hawthorn for at best a 2nd rounder is hilarious.

Just madness.

There's no doubt in my mind that if you lose a guy like Battle you're going backwards.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Was it Will Brodie

17

Will Brodie

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

8.2

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

10.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

2star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

2.8

5star

the Freo guy suggested we should talk to them about getting?

 

[gringo2011]

Was it Will Brodie the Freo guy suggested we should talk to them about getting?

Yeah, makes complete sense even as a temporary rotation. Doubt he'd cost much and I'd have him in ahead of Dow, Ross and Windhager to be honest. Even if we draft a gun kid he's probably not making a serious midfield impact for 3 or 4 seasons.

 

[phantom13]

They may take it, but short-term it ain't.

I’d trade it. So would 16 other teams I reckon.

 

[austinnn]

Yeah, a lot of those higher picks are more outside orientated mids.

Jagga is a smaller guy but you'd hope he might turn into a Butters, Neale or Merret type of smaller sized accumulator.

Lalor and Cody Anderson are the more bull inside types of this draft. Both look a bit later in the draft. Ideally a CA or Gross type drifts out to our second RDP.

I think you mean Adelaide's 2RDP. How's that midfield bull from last year's draft George Stevens (?) going this season, had he had any games yet? We could have done with him and Cooper Simpson, let's hope Collard and Hastie prove to be more useful.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Shit year to tank.

The talk of sending battle to hawthorn for at best a 2nd rounder is hilarious.

Just madness.

I'm sure no one has suggested such a thing.

 

[stfan]

Hawks and Tigers both loaded up to have one last crack at a flag and set themselves back further. We threw away a decade with terrible drafting.

Drafting in Bains, Trout and Lethlean were probably our biggest three selections we ballsed up.


Those three then created ongoing other poor selections.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

The TANKING results are in

When asked if you were FOR tanking or AGAINST tanking the FOR tanking was nearly double the number over AGAINST

Something like 30 FOR to 15 AGAINST

 

[TheJackal]

If we move on Battle & Howard then Wilkie will be half the player he currently is and we may as well go full rebuild.

Honestly, our backline is our only functioning line and some of us want to blow it up

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm sure no one has suggested such a thing.

That's what you will get for battle. There isn't going to be an early first. It's end of first round at best. So a 2nd round pick.

Then what do we do about the CBH position. Howard's too slow. Wilkie undersized and also can't cover the ground like battle can.

So then you're going back to the well to find a CHB. They take time to develop too.

 

[Leap of Faith]

There will not be a new offer to Battle. I told you all at the start of the season. We have a value for Battle in terms of salary cap and we have a value for Battle in terms of return on the market.

We are currently at our salary limit. He has a 6 year offer from us. Unfortunately a mixture of poor form and big offers look him leaving is the most likely option.

The situation as it stands has us of the belief it’s a first round compo - and that would exceed our external value (There isn’t a poster on here that wouldn’t think it’s good list management if you could nab a top 5 pick for Battle). That doesn’t mean we are happy he leaves (likely not guaranteed) just that the outcome is acceptable.

Feel like one of Ross or Membrey goes. Looking like Tim.

They are keen to see how much value Howard can recover for the rest of the year. Similar to Battle. Thing with key backs is that clubs are willing to offer overs on salary for free ones. Keep an eye on a few of Adelaide’s tall backs as a potential replacement.

No free agent this year as it stands. They are looking at older players on the fringes they can get for cheap for a year or 2 or 3 that don’t hinder the cap space. Doggies have one or two we like.

Expect a really decent turnover at years end. More focus on youth again.

Hypothetically if you have 2 top 5 picks in this particular draft. You are laughing. Draper and Jagga Smith?

We are also keen on a late first. Think Hotton could fall into that range.

I’ll also leave you with this. North Melbourne desperately wants Trainor. They are willing to trade back from pick 1 to land this kid. We are aware of this as long as it doesn’t cost first rounders.

Max Hall. No idea who he was the other week. But SOS and Dalrymple think he could be top 5 in the Liston trophy if it was happening today. Thats not saying he even makes it at the level. But they like some of the intangibles he has and is a different mix to our current listed players.

Hope you are all well. Footy is shit when your side sucks (again!) but this isn’t full rebuild. There is a few things coming to light now that the blowtorch is applied that needs to be corrected. It will be.

Can someone tell me who is Trainor mentioned in Stavro’s post? Does North wanting him and being willing to trade back from pick 1 have any impact on us?

 

[gringo2011]

I think you mean Adelaide's 2RDP. How's that midfield bull from last year's draft George Stevens (?) going this season, had he had any games yet? We could have done with him and Cooper Simpson, let's hope Collard and Hastie prove to be more useful.

Stevens is playing VFL. Already has three games over 27 disposals.

 

[gringo2011]

Can someone tell me who is Trainor mentioned in Stavro’s post? Does North wanting him and being willing to trade back from pick 1 have any impact on us?

Sandy Dragons tall defender.

 

[gringo2011]

4. Luke Trainor
Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro
DEF, 194cm
Talent League: 2 games, 20.5 disposals, 5.5 marks, 3 tackles

Named best on ground for the AFL Academy, Trainor put all of his elite traits together to showcase why he is the top-rated key defender in the pool. The bouncy interceptor flies bravely for his marks and offers beautiful timing in his kicking action, often being entrusted to take his side's kick-ins and setting up transition offence with aplomb. It's this attacking weapon which will have clubs considering Trainor in the top five at this early juncture.

Draft Power Rankings: Mids, father-sons dominate the list

The 2024 draft crop is already looking stacked with midfielders, while a number of father-son prospects also feature in the top 20. Plus yet another Suns Academy product in the top 10, writes Jasper Chellappah.

www.espn.com.au

 

[Miha]

If we move on Battle & Howard then Wilkie will be half the player he currently is and we may as well go full rebuild.

Honestly, our backline is our only functioning line and some of us want to blow it up

I’d keep Howard. If he keeps up the form he may get a juicy offer which maybe the club wasn’t expecting. Interesting times ahead