List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[gringo2011]

I think about this year, and if we'd traded away our later picks to improve our first rounder.

We could have ended up with someone like McKercher instead of Wilson, and that sounds OK.
But if we ended up with McKercher instead of Wilson, Hastie, and Garcia, that would kind of suck.

Later picks aren't worth much, until you pick a good player with one.

Helps when you nail a pick like we seem to have done with Wilson. He looks like a one of the best kids we've had in years. Probably a fair bit ahead of Nas in his first year even.

Mc Kercher looks like a star and would love him but if we can get another couple of good players as well we have absolutely given ourselves every chance to jump fast down the track.

Ari Schoenmaker is the one to me that is most likely to have a really high impact once he makes the senior side. Only Crouch and Jones are averaging more touches than him in the VFL and he leads us in total disposals. Only Campbell ahead on fantasy scores and second in marks at Sandy.

If he can become a gun with a late pick it makes that one hell of a draft from where we started while still bringing in mature players.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Helps when you nail a pick like we seem to have done with Wilson. He looks like a one of the best kids we've had in years. Probably a fair bit ahead of Nas in his first year even.

Mc Kercher looks like a star and would love him but if we can get another couple of good players as well we have absolutely given ourselves every chance to jump fast down the track.

Ari Schoenmaker is the one to me that is most likely to have a really high impact once he makes the senior side. Only Crouch and Jones are averaging more touches than him in the VFL and he leads us in total disposals. Only Campbell ahead on fantasy scores and second in marks at Sandy.

If he can become a gun with a late pick it makes that one hell of a draft from where we started while still bringing in mature players.

A poster on another site seems pretty confident Battle has committed to Hawthorn and will be leaving at seasons end. He suggested he is a really popular player about the club and there are a lot of very unhappy players as a result of whats gone on. If true I gather that suggests the club havent offerred any where near what the Hawks have. If that is correct I will be extremely pissed with the club...Battle is all heart IMO.

If the above if correct Shoenmaker is the obvious long term replacement so lets hope he can do the work on his contested marking and defensive game, because there is no doubt he will be an attacking weapon.

 

[gubby88]

A poster on another site seems pretty confident Battle has committed to Hawthorn and will be leaving at seasons end. He suggested he is a really popular player about the club and there are a lot of very unhappy players as a result of whats gone on. If true I gather that suggests the club havent offerred any where near what the Hawks have. If that is correct I will be extremely pissed with the club...Battle is all heart IMO.

If the above if correct Shoenmaker is the obvious long term replacement so lets hope he can do the work on his contested marking and defensive game, because there is no doubt he will be an attacking weapon.

Would you give a third tall a million a year? He would be our highest paid player by a country mile at this stage if thats the case

 

[SteeleSaints]

Would you give a third tall a million a year? He would be our highest paid player by a country mile at this stage if thats the case

It is a lot of money but on current output IMO he is worth more to the team than Max King, what is he on?

 

[DougalHoward]

A poster on another site seems pretty confident Battle has committed to Hawthorn and will be leaving at seasons end. He suggested he is a really popular player about the club and there are a lot of very unhappy players as a result of whats gone on. If true I gather that suggests the club havent offerred any where near what the Hawks have. If that is correct I will be extremely pissed with the club...Battle is all heart IMO.

If the above if correct Shoenmaker is the obvious long term replacement so lets hope he can do the work on his contested marking and defensive game, because there is no doubt he will be an attacking weapon.

So an ITK on saintsational

 

[gubby88]

It is a lot of money but on current output IMO he is worth more to the team than Max King, what is he on?

about 750 from reports. but third tall is alot easier than a key forward in a team full of butchers.

look i love battle, hes a great player and a real great team man. but we also have sharman, Keeler and Ari who can play that role. if we get a band one or band 2 out of that, im still quite happy

 

[gringo2011]

It is a lot of money but on current output IMO he is worth more to the team than Max King, what is he on?

With cap increases it's not as much as it was either. You don't usually pay as much to keep players as you do to lure them.

 

[phantom13]

about 750 from reports. but third tall is alot easier than a key forward in a team full of butchers.

look i love battle, hes a great player and a real great team man. but we also have sharman, Keeler and Ari who can play that role. if we get a band one or band 2 out of that, im still quite happy

Band 2 would be shit, hes worth more to us internally than that and if we lose him because we were gonna give him $800k, with the cap increase id say thats a really, really poor decision.

All speculation at this point but to me $900k is the threshold (noting length of deal etc factors in). Id pay up to that much to keep him and if he gets more than that then i think youd let him walk.

 

[phantom13]

He might also walk for less, that would be a kick in the guts.

 

[The_Steadier]

Would you give a third tall a million a year? He would be our highest paid player by a country mile at this stage if thats the case

He's not just a third tall- he's wilkies replacement in a few years time.

Plus 1mill is the equivalent of 800k with the cap increase.

Id pay battle 800k a year to keep him if the cap wasn't going up.

Therefore- id pay him a mill a year under the new inflated cap- because it's basically the same thing.

 

[The_Steadier]

He might also walk for less, that would be a kick in the guts.

Yeah we can't do much about that.

But I trust the club far more than any random 'itk' internet types.

We wouldn't lose him because of a decision by us to drive a hard bargain and not offer him at least 800k+ longterm.

It's a totally different situation to where we were with gresh- we did the right thing there by driving a hard bargain- but being happy to accept the consequences (ie him leaving).

We wont play hardball again with battle- because losing him (even with band 1 compo)- would be sending us backwards overall.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

A poster on another site seems pretty confident Battle has committed to Hawthorn and will be leaving at seasons end. He suggested he is a really popular player about the club and there are a lot of very unhappy players as a result of whats gone on. If true I gather that suggests the club havent offerred any where near what the Hawks have. If that is correct I will be extremely pissed with the club...Battle is all heart IMO.

If the above if correct Shoenmaker is the obvious long term replacement so lets hope he can do the work on his contested marking and defensive game, because there is no doubt he will be an attacking weapon.

If an unrestricted free agent decides to leave, how can you be pissed off at the club?


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[phantom13]

Yeah we can't do much about that.

But I trust the club far more than any random 'itk' internet types.

We wouldn't lose him because of a decision by us to drive a hard bargain and not offer him at least 800k+ longterm.

It's a totally different situation to where we were with gresh- we did the right thing there by driving a hard bargain- but being happy to accept the consequences (ie him leaving).

We wont play hardball again with battle- because losing him (even with band 1 compo)- would be sending us backwards overall.

Yeh im certainly not putting much stock in the rumours but i also think all players should be considering their options overall, this is a job and they need to maxmise their earnings.

I broadly agree on the club not losing him because of a hard bargain and the Gresh comparison (which i still think was the right choice by the club). My concern is that we may value him lower internally than we should, now to be clear thats not based on anything at all and im not hugely concerned but i can see a scenario where the list managers are so obsessed with our "war chest" that we try to slightly lowball guys like Battle to top up that chest and we wind up losing him. I dont THINK that will happen but it nags at me a bit.

If an unrestricted free agent decides to leave, how can you be pissed off at the club?


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If a UFA decides to walk for less money you have to ask what was going on with our management of them that THAT was a better option. If they leave for money then really it comes down to an individual question of what they were worth.

If Battle goes for $800k a year because we refused to match that, id be pissed at the club. Others might have that number lower or higher.

 

[True Believer]

A poster on another site seems pretty confident Battle has committed to Hawthorn and will be leaving at seasons end. He suggested he is a really popular player about the club and there are a lot of very unhappy players as a result of whats gone on. If true I gather that suggests the club havent offerred any where near what the Hawks have. If that is correct I will be extremely pissed with the club...Battle is all heart IMO.

If the above if correct Shoenmaker is the obvious long term replacement so lets hope he can do the work on his contested marking and defensive game, because there is no doubt he will be an attacking weapon.

If it is true that he has been offered $1m by the Hawks, maybe Ari is the reason we chose not to match that ridiculous number. If you have a nearly ready-made replacement, and can potentially get a band 1 compo pick, why would you put that at risk?

 

[Miha]

If it is true that he has been offered $1m by the Hawks, maybe Ari is the reason we chose not to match that ridiculous number. If you have a nearly ready-made replacement, and can potentially get a band 1 compo pick, why would you put that at risk?

Perhaps not a like for like but the Irishman is doing nice things

 

[True Believer]

Perhaps not a like for like but the Irishman is doing nice things

Not that I want to see him go because I like Battle, he has a presence that a lot of our guys lack IMO, but as a player his attributes are those we could more easily replace than some others.

 

[CaptainRisky]

So an ITK on saintsational

Are you serious , please don't tell me posters are going over there and bringing the dog sh1t back to BF

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Yeh im certainly not putting much stock in the rumours but i also think all players should be considering their options overall, this is a job and they need to maxmise their earnings.

I broadly agree on the club not losing him because of a hard bargain and the Gresh comparison (which i still think was the right choice by the club). My concern is that we may value him lower internally than we should, now to be clear thats not based on anything at all and im not hugely concerned but i can see a scenario where the list managers are so obsessed with our "war chest" that we try to slightly lowball guys like Battle to top up that chest and we wind up losing him. I dont THINK that will happen but it nags at me a bit.

If a UFA decides to walk for less money you have to ask what was going on with our management of them that THAT was a better option. If they leave for money then really it comes down to an individual question of what they were worth.

If Battle goes for $800k a year because we refused to match that, id be pissed at the club. Others might have that number lower or higher.

Where on earth has the brain fart that Battle is walking for less money coming from?

Its his big pay day.

If he leaves it’ll be because he’s had an offer that will set his family up forever.

This is how stupid stuff like ‘the club is lowballing him’ starts… if Hawthorn is offering a million a year are we lowballing him if we don’t beat that?


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[The Punter]

Winning is not a bad idea but think we've left it too late. I want a good pick in a draft even if it's not a superstar draft, there are still good players in it. You just aren't getting a ticket in a $120 million super draw. This one is more like a Wednesday night Tatts with a $1.2 million prize pool. Win it and it will change your life just the scale is a bit different.

All the chat is we lack superstar talent. So what is the point of finishing as low as possible in a draft with no superstar talent?

This has been my point all along - the draft is too much of a gamble anyway - develop what you have already.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

All the chat is we lack superstar talent. So what is the point of finishing as low as possible in a draft with no superstar talent?

This has been my point all along - the draft is too much of a gamble anyway - develop what you have already.

There is no point.
They aren't doing it on purpose.

 

[gringo2011]

Band 2 would be shit, hes worth more to us internally than that and if we lose him because we were gonna give him $800k, with the cap increase id say thats a really, really poor decision.

All speculation at this point but to me $900k is the threshold (noting length of deal etc factors in). Id pay up to that much to keep him and if he gets more than that then i think youd let him walk.

Every time you lose a top 10 player from your list you have to replace them. It probably takes 5 years of development to get them to the same point unless you win the lottery.

On top of that I'd guess a percentage chance of being a worse player is probably 50% to 60%. The chance of matching in quality is probably around 20% at a guess. To get a significant upgrade would be less than 10% you imagine. Less than 10% chance of blowing the pick or something on top of that. I know they don't add up exactly but just as a general point it you get the idea.

If you are trying to improve your list losing players, it isn't like getting a top 20 pick for them makes a huge impact because you develop them just to stand still unless you absolutely arse a star. Exactly what we did with McEvoy. Paid overs for Hickey who was never as good and for all our picks we ended up with nothing out of it.

 

[The_Steadier]

Yeh im certainly not putting much stock in the rumours but i also think all players should be considering their options overall, this is a job and they need to maxmise their earnings.

I broadly agree on the club not losing him because of a hard bargain and the Gresh comparison (which i still think was the right choice by the club). My concern is that we may value him lower internally than we should, now to be clear thats not based on anything at all and im not hugely concerned but i can see a scenario where the list managers are so obsessed with our "war chest" that we try to slightly lowball guys like Battle to top up that chest and we wind up losing him. I dont THINK that will happen but it nags at me a bit.

If a UFA decides to walk for less money you have to ask what was going on with our management of them that THAT was a better option. If they leave for money then really it comes down to an individual question of what they were worth.

If Battle goes for $800k a year because we refused to match that, id be pissed at the club. Others might have that number lower or higher.

I reckon we learned our lesson with letting goddard go- we'll pony up market value for battle- whether he wants it from us is another story.

develop what you have already.

You mean by playing our current kids ahead of older guys for instance?

Prioritising the development of what you already have and 'finishing as low as possible' are virtually the same thing.

 

[gringo2011]

All the chat is we lack superstar talent. So what is the point of finishing as low as possible in a draft with no superstar talent?

This has been my point all along - the draft is too much of a gamble anyway - develop what you have already.

The cream is still at the top. It's just a lesser cream. You imagine guys like Jagga Smith and Smillie are going to be excellent players but there isn't that dominant player like Harley Reid where you'd have traded up for that pick knowing you are likely to get an absolute superstar.

Picking at the front end allows you to get the best of the talent with less question marks. In a weak draft you just don't want to spend a weeks wages on the pub meat tray raffle. Buy a ticket, just don't go nuts.

 

[The Punter]

You mean by playing our current kids ahead of older guys for instance?

Prioritising the development of what you already have and 'finishing as low as possible' are virtually the same thing.

Every player on the list can improve at any given moment in time. Don't think Collard is doing any development being played next to Adam Tomlinson with the ball being put on his head. Phillipou is now in the VFL to develop.

We just shouldn't be not caring about game results in order to "access talent".

 

[Remboy]

Where on earth has the brain fart that Battle is walking for less money coming from?

Its his big pay day.

If he leaves it’ll be because he’s had an offer that will set his family up forever.

This is how stupid stuff like ‘the club is lowballing him’ starts… if Hawthorn is offering a million a year are we lowballing him if we don’t beat that?


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No, we are not. I think the only time players accept less is to chase success, like Lynch going to Richmond. I don’t think Battle would do that given he hasn’t been on a huge contract and this one is his best chance to get one.
He seems pretty loyal, we value him, so I’m confident something will get sorted.