List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.3

[joydivision22]

Push comes to shove in list spots, which it will, I would fully support the club backflipping in this crazy agreement with Sandringham.

An agreement which they have not held up their end of the bargain by providing any viable options. Is it worth losing a Membrey, Hayes, Crouch, Hotton, Paton who are very worthy of a list spot just for a fake 9 month contract? No, it is not.

Is it worth the vitriol we would cop for reneging? This year.. yes. And who cares about being disliked at this point..

People will say “build it and they will come” and sure I get it. But like any great policy or rule, there are regulations and checks and we need to have a minimum standard or some caveats to avoid the impending shotgun to the foot this year.

I understand the concept but it is just too detrimental and in its infancy to fully back it.

Think we should come out and say we’re not doing it this year and will reconsider next year. Looks far worse if we try and fudge it

 

[ThomasR]

Push comes to shove in list spots, which it will, I would fully support the club backflipping in this crazy agreement with Sandringham.

An agreement which they have not held up their end of the bargain by providing any viable options. Is it worth losing a Membrey, Hayes, Crouch, Hotton, Paton who are very worthy of a list spot just for a fake 9 month contract? No, it is not.

Is it worth the vitriol we would cop for reneging? This year.. yes. And who cares about being disliked at this point..

People will say “build it and they will come” and sure I get it. But like any great policy or rule, there are regulations and checks and we need to have a minimum standard or some caveats to avoid the impending shotgun to the foot this year.

I understand the concept but it is just too detrimental and in its infancy to fully back it.

Think we should come out and say we’re not doing it this year and will reconsider next year. Looks far worse if we try and fudge it

Agree with all of the above. Unfortunately there was an article in the HS only a couple of weeks ago that stated we would be honouring the commitment this year, and listed the potential candidates. It feels like we are in too deep to renege at this point, although it's never too late.

I can only hope we've had many expressions of interest in coming across next year to justify continuing the program - otherwise we surely would've binned it by now.

 

[akaifu]

Push comes to shove in list spots, which it will, I would fully support the club backflipping in this crazy agreement with Sandringham.

An agreement which they have not held up their end of the bargain by providing any viable options. Is it worth losing a Membrey, Hayes, Crouch, Hotton, Paton who are very worthy of a list spot just for a fake 9 month contract? No, it is not.

Is it worth the vitriol we would cop for reneging? This year.. yes. And who cares about being disliked at this point..

People will say “build it and they will come” and sure I get it. But like any great policy or rule, there are regulations and checks and we need to have a minimum standard or some caveats to avoid the impending shotgun to the foot this year.

I understand the concept but it is just too detrimental and in its infancy to fully back it.

Think we should come out and say we’re not doing it this year and will reconsider next year. Looks far worse if we try and fudge it

I hope there's some sort of clause in it that's protected us from being obligated to take one of their players despite them having zero quality

Something like a quota for minimum number of players to have participated in state combines or anything of the sort. Just feels unfair we have to hold up our end of the bargain when it feels like they haven't come remotely close

 

[stfan]

Not as bad as giving a first rounder for Brooks.

"Traded at the end of the 2002 season to St Kilda in exchange for picks 6 (Steven Salopek) and 31"

 

[Nutsngum]

So one of the reasons why we would have had less then stellar options sign up with Sandringham would have been questions on if we would actually go through with it.

Following through on these promises is what actually attracts talent.

 

[stfan]

So one of the reasons why we would have had less then stellar options sign up with Sandringham would have been questions on if we would actually go through with it.

Following through on these promises is what actually attracts talent.

Perhaps.....but next season any club can just as easily draft any player we attract. So there is absolutely no draft advantage to us.

The advantage supposedly is to improve Sandy so that our younger players will better develop.


What they really need to do is to hire in some quality VFL players now in order to improve the quality. Just hoping that some decent players may join us eventually just seems pretty nebulous and illogical to me.

Even more illogical is to commit to drafting one player from only one club every year, and Moreso one as weak as Sandy is.. This to me means that you will most likely just weaken our list every year (Remember, we have no draft priority over any Sandy player, if a gun joins us then he just nominates for draft for any club to pick).

 

[Mat Mann]

Fans are banging on about taking two mids with our first picks, later picks could become about needs, lose Hayes & Membrey, we are thin on key position. Cole becomes a thing because he's academy & easy. Ideal? maybe no.

we haven't had a decent mid since the last time Ross was our Coach, we've watched the Pies and dogs win flags with shit fwd lines and mediocre defensive units but yeah, lets keep drafting KPP's and HBF's.

we are banging on about them because mids are THE most important players in the game and ours are not that good

 

[MrFoster]

"Traded at the end of the 2002 season to St Kilda in exchange for picks 6 (Steven Salopek) and 31"

Dumbest trade ever

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

we haven't had a decent mid since the last time Ross was our Coach, we've watched the Pies and dogs win flags with shit fwd lines and mediocre defensive units but yeah, lets keep drafting KPP's and HBF's.

we are banging on about them because mids are THE most important players in the game and ours are not that good

Good point maybe? for the times now. But, in our Grand Final years, we had good mids but under-sized backmen & oh yeah, the statue-Koschitzke. We are thin in the key-positions now, re- May & Lever recently? as important examples. We have Pou, Windhager, Garcia, Owens, Wilson as future mids. We have in key position's- Schoey, Caminiti, Heath, King, Keeler, Sharman. Good key position players are harder to come by. Let's call it 50 /50 & pick 1 mid & 1 tall then with picks 7& 8.

 

[jwint43]

we haven't had a decent mid since the last time Ross was our Coach, we've watched the Pies and dogs win flags with shit fwd lines and mediocre defensive units but yeah, lets keep drafting KPP's and HBF's.

we are banging on about them because mids are THE most important players in the game and ours are not that good

Jack Steven was a proper gun and Steele is a 2x All Australian, but they have been the only 2 players in our midfield that could be considered A grade players at any given time. Brouch had a couple of very good years too to be fair.

I think we have enough talent up forward and down back to win with this side if we can nail both of these picks and Pou continues on his trajectory. I'm also optimistic Hunter Clark can finally become a crucial contributor to our midfield if he can remain injury free, his back half of the year was very good.

I'm less optimistic on Windy becoming a true star, but I think he already plays a very valuable role and time is still on his side.

 

[Michael Goodinski]

What backflip on Hayes? Has his contract been extended? Has anyone at the club talked about extending his contract?

As far as I can see, nothing has changed. He can do a job for us, so I'd have happy to keep him if we don't use his spot to bring in another ruck.

Honestly I'd prefer to free the spot up for a draftee, but if it's between him and another state ruckman that state ruckman would have to have much more upside to override Hayes's AFL experience.

As an aside, it's a damn shame we can't give him the nickname "Purple" because of thst bespectacled opinionated media twat. I feel guilty even linking the two. I guess "Crazy" will have to do.

The media purple was named after the head of the penis, and appropriately so.

Our Hayes can take on whatever nick name he likes, as "Purple Barrett" already has the pejorative one.

"Haze" or "Crazy", I'd be happy with either, as long as he stays. If he goes to the filth he's dead to me.

 

[Michael Goodinski]

Push comes to shove in list spots, which it will, I would fully support the club backflipping in this crazy agreement with Sandringham.

An agreement which they have not held up their end of the bargain by providing any viable options. Is it worth losing a Membrey, Hayes, Crouch, Hotton, Paton who are very worthy of a list spot just for a fake 9 month contract? No, it is not.

Is it worth the vitriol we would cop for reneging? This year.. yes. And who cares about being disliked at this point..

People will say “build it and they will come” and sure I get it. But like any great policy or rule, there are regulations and checks and we need to have a minimum standard or some caveats to avoid the impending shotgun to the foot this year.

I understand the concept but it is just too detrimental and in its infancy to fully back it.

Think we should come out and say we’re not doing it this year and will reconsider next year. Looks far worse if we try and fudge it

Who on earth is in charge of recruiting and list management at Sandringham, trout, John Bevo and Pelchen? Whoever it is, it's been a disgrace.

Another reason to end the alignment that has ******ed the progress of our club for however long it's been going on.

 

[Michael Goodinski]

Agree with all of the above. Unfortunately there was an article in the HS only a couple of weeks ago that stated we would be honouring the commitment this year, and listed the potential candidates. It feels like we are in too deep to renege at this point, although it's never too late.

I can only hope we've had many expressions of interest in coming across next year to justify continuing the program - otherwise we surely would've binned it by now.

Who were the potential candidates mentioned in the HS article? Hopefully Hoffman and Cole were amongst them.

Does anyone know what the qualification criteria is?

 

[austinnn]

Not as bad as giving a first rounder for Brooks.

How about pick 17 to bring our CEO's son Fergus Watts home from the Crows? Played one game before being dropped, then got injured and eventually delisted. Thanks Jim!

Funnily enough, young Fergus became a big success in advertising post-AFL:

Why marketing firm Bastion Collective is introducing unlimited leave for its staff

Australian-based marketing company Bastion Collective has revealed it will offer its staff unlimited annual leave in an effort to improve their...

www.smartcompany.com.au

Wonder if Bastion Collective has helped out St Kilda in any way as a mark of gratitude after the club burnt a first round pick on its founder back in 2005?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

[austinnn]

Jack Steven was a proper gun and Steele is a 2x All Australian, but they have been the only 2 players in our midfield that could be considered A grade players at any given time. Brouch had a couple of very good years too to be fair.

I think we have enough talent up forward and down back to win with this side if we can nail both of these picks and Pou continues on his trajectory. I'm also optimistic Hunter Clark can finally become a crucial contributor to our midfield if he can remain injury free, his back half of the year was very good.

I'm less optimistic on Windy becoming a true star, but I think he already plays a very valuable role and time is still on his side.

I was thinking about Windy the other day. What is the likelihood of him leveling up and becoming an a-grade mid? What is it that separates him from the elite mids? He seems determined enough to become more than a tagger. I know you need more than determination but what shortcomings dies he have that stop him from being elite and what is changeable to the point of becoming the next Lachie Neale rather than merely keeping Lachie Neale away from the football?

 

[SG34]

I was thinking about Windy the other day. What is the likelihood of him leveling up and becoming an a-grade mid? What is it that separates him from the elite mids? He seems determined enough to become more than a tagger. I know you need more than determination but what shortcomings dies he have that stop him from being elite and what is changeable to the point of becoming the next Lachie Neale rather than merely keeping Lachie Neale away from the football?

I live in Japan, can't go to games, over rely on SEN Breakfast (homesick. or just sick) , etc., etc.. When I hear Garry Lyon say Windy is a certain level, I believe it. Now, I am wondering whether Windy has gone from 'Star territory' to 'Also ran' territory. Better than Bytel, more potential than Ronnie Byrnes? Not expecting an AA Jacket, but what the f do I know? He was all the buzz in 2023. Ditto Mitchito.

One option is to believe he had some untimely injuries this year.

 

[austinnn]

Perhaps.....but next season any club can just as easily draft any player we attract. So there is absolutely no draft advantage to us.

The advantage supposedly is to improve Sandy so that our younger players will better develop.


What they really need to do is to hire in some quality VFL players now in order to improve the quality. Just hoping that some decent players may join us eventually just seems pretty nebulous and illogical to me.

Even more illogical is to commit to drafting one player from only one club every year, and Moreso one as weak as Sandy is.. This to me means that you will most likely just weaken our list every year (Remember, we have no draft priority over any Sandy player, if a gun joins us then he just nominates for draft for any club to pick).

Mark Wheeler appointed Sandringham FC CEO

www.sandringhamfc.com.au

Hopefully the Wheeler appointment will help the Zebs more than this "unorthodox" talent pathway. The Dragons and Stingrays have been well oiled machines for some time, if we can get some of that acumen at Sandy, we may see an uptick in recruitment.

What we are offering is worth a try but it'll take a few seasons of proven success to actually donuts job of attracting better players to the club. If players see a lack of faith from St Kilda towards the Sandy ring-in, or said ring-in doesn't get anywhere at the Saints, players will know it's not worth it.

 

[ThomasR]

Who were the potential candidates mentioned in the HS article? Hopefully Hoffman and Cole were amongst them.

Does anyone know what the qualification criteria is?

Hipwell, Watson, Vesely, Lowe, Hall-Kahan, Benier were the names mentioned. Specifically mentioned Lachie Voss was ineligible as he wasn't Sandy-listed (playing with Dragons). Assume the same applies to Hofmann and Cole etc

 

[Michael Goodinski]

Hipwell, Watson, Vesely, Lowe, Hall-Kahan, Benier were the names mentioned. Specifically mentioned Lachie Voss was ineligible as he wasn't Sandy-listed (playing with Dragons). Assume the same applies to Hofmann and Cole etc

Thanks, ThomasR. Not good news. None of those named look worthy of a place on our list.

 

[Sol Goodman]

we haven't had a decent mid since the last time Ross was our Coach, we've watched the Pies and dogs win flags with shit fwd lines and mediocre defensive units but yeah, lets keep drafting KPP's and HBF's.

we are banging on about them because mids are THE most important players in the game and ours are not that good

The tough thing is we need both. I'm very much in the draft mids camp. Do we have enough keys developing? Loosing Battle, Skunk, Campbell, Hayes, Cordy. Question marks over Heath. Wilkie and Howard 29 next year, tells us we really need to bring in more keys over the next couple years aswell. 7 & 8 should be best available mids though.

 

[bergholt]

Who on earth is in charge of recruiting and list management at Sandringham, trout, John Bevo and Pelchen? Whoever it is, it's been a disgrace.

Another reason to end the alignment that has ******ed the progress of our club for however long it's been going on.

Where do our reserves play if we end the alignment with Sandy?

 

[stavro#4]

I wonder if he could play defense, he's a pretty ordinary forward but a big unit.

I have a feeling Essendon tried him there and he stank it up.

Take Sam Weideman as a DFA. Enright will sort him out. Only 27.

Rejected us for Essendon last time.
Hard pass.

 

[jimmytigs]

Also, if there is a standout Sandy player in the future, they could be simply drafted by another club in the national or rookie draft. Unless Saints have a pick before that possible club.

i take it this is correct,being so what absolute axxhole signs us up to an agreement like that?fire his axx out of the club surely,that is just ridiculous & happily the first seaon of its life we have a very tight squeeze for list spots to highlight such an imbecile agreement,which will likely cost us either hotton or a ready made need such as an established stop gap kpd or back up ruck

get rid of it,what the hell is in it for us as it is worded?

 

[Saintsydney]

Hipwell, Watson, Vesely, Lowe, Hall-Kahan, Benier were the names mentioned. Specifically mentioned Lachie Voss was ineligible as he wasn't Sandy-listed (playing with Dragons). Assume the same applies to Hofmann and Cole etc

Think I read somewhere else that Cole might be eligible

 

[Ricmel]

Dumbest trade ever

Not even close. Not even St Kilda's dumbest trade.