List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[gringo2011]

I've watched Oliver all year as I picked him in fantasy in the first round (terrible mistake).

He is going through the motions and doing the bare minimum with very poor body language. His tackle numbers are down, and he doesn't show any of the same hunger he once had.

Physically I think he is still capable of getting back to somewhere near his best.

Whether this is to do with him wanting out of Melbourne, a tactical change in how they want him to play, his off field issues. or something else, he is not putting in the effort and it seems like football is not a priority for him.

The only time I've seen him truly try in the last month is when he copped an absolute bake at quarter time from Simon Goodwin against the Dons. He had 1 kick and 1 mark at QT.

It's a huge gamble and most likely won't be as simple as him needing a fresh start.

You don't let players of Oliver's quality go unless there are serious issues. If they are willing to let him walk out you'd think that the issues haven't been dealt with.

 

[beside the seaside]

Sounds like RTB is a big fan of what Jones is doing at the moment. Reckon he's gotten himself another year.

 

[Broski]

The Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

situation is going to be an interesting one to follow over the next couple of months. He has been fantastic for us since coming over, and I think some kind of underrate him to a degree.

Crouch received 18 Brownlow medal votes last season, which put him around the top 15. Just look at the players that finished above him - genuine stars of the game.

However, without knowing any details, his knee looks absolutely rooted. We have all seen the strapping and hobbling that has gone on in the VFL. It is probably in the club's best interest to shake hands at the end of the year, and free up a list spot. I have no idea what Brad wants to do though.

This is going to be one of the most interesting off seasons in a long time. I have no idea what the club is planning but we will obviously look to head to the draft and maybe improve our hand (Battle dependent).

Wouldn't be surprised if the club keeps an eye on players that get squeezed out of other clubs, like Riley Bonner

36

Riley Bonner

Age

27

Ht

190cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.1

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

279.8

4star

D

12.3

3star

K

10.3

4star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

279.8

4star

D

21.4

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

7.4

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

(but hopefully a tad better aha). We have young talent, but we need to make sure we surround them with competent experienced players - no Luke Delaney

Luke Delaney

Age

35

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

33.7

1star

No current season stats available

D

9.6

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.8

5star

type operators.

 

[littlecreatures]

It’s because at AFL level Chito just gets lost in the structures of an AFL midfield.

The feedback to him is that the game passes him by.

When he plays forward. It’s very simple.

See ball. Win ball.

Doesn’t have to worry about his man running the other way. Doesn’t get lost when it’s his time to go etc.

So what’s happened is that we have effectively developed an elite medium tall forward (struggling with form) - but an average midfielder at this point. With Owens being so young in his development. They want to focus on building on the area where he looks exceptional and in time that should allow greater midfield time. Also helps that all our other tall forwards are broken.

But it won’t be Chito the mid anytime soon - which is why those talking it up as something they would like and how it would impact trading and drafting are very off base currently.

Future state. Maybe. Probably.

Now. Short term. Nope.

But, yet basically we’ve turned Pou into a mid in the short term when a fair few would argue they looked fairly similar when chucked in there.

It’s really just about how much development you want to prioritise in the midfield, noting Chito had a heavily disrupted pre season due to going bananas over the off season, and I don’t think they can afford to chuck Mitch into the 2s to hone his midfield craft when he’s probably top 4 in our list for halving a forward contest which builds into our forward half game.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

It’s because at AFL level Chito just gets lost in the structures of an AFL midfield.

The feedback to him is that the game passes him by.

When he plays forward. It’s very simple.

See ball. Win ball.

Doesn’t have to worry about his man running the other way. Doesn’t get lost when it’s his time to go etc.

So what’s happened is that we have effectively developed an elite medium tall forward (struggling with form) - but an average midfielder at this point. With Owens being so young in his development. They want to focus on building on the area where he looks exceptional and in time that should allow greater midfield time. Also helps that all our other tall forwards are broken.

But it won’t be Chito the mid anytime soon - which is why those talking it up as something they would like and how it would impact trading and drafting are very off base currently.

Future state. Maybe. Probably.

Now. Short term. Nope.

Not having a go at you personally, what you say makes sense but it just seems so conservative. I must be living in cloud cuckoo land. He seems to have elite traits which we have been crying out for forever. The power and burst from stoppages and congestion. The game has passed him by in the forward line all year as well. We are desperate for elite players and are dramatically lowering his ceiling with this approach. What’s his highest upside as a medium forward? Zurhaar or Stringer would be a disappointment from the potential he showed last year. Data showed a Dustin Martin level of contested ability. I guess David King was right and he is Max Rooke. The only way to develop midfield craft is to play him as one which Lyon clearly has no appetite for.

 

[akaifu]

That would be if he gets band 1, which isn't a guarantee.

If Battle leaves, the main reason would be for money (i know there are other factors but the money is the main reason)

We have offered a contract of same years as Hawthorn at 850k per year, and band 1 is 900k. Unless he's a stingy little **** trying to get an extra <50k out of Hawthorn per year, we'll get band 1 if he leaves

 

[stavro#4]

But, yet basically we’ve turned Pou into a mid in the short term when a fair few would argue they looked fairly similar when chucked in there.

It’s really just about how much development you want to prioritise in the midfield, noting Chito had a heavily disrupted pre season due to going bananas over the off season, and I don’t think they can afford to chuck Mitch into the 2s to hone his midfield craft when he’s probably top 4 in our list for halving a forward contest which builds into our forward half game.

With respect.

The bolded highlights that the clubs development of Owens and Pou has been correct.

Just because we may see attributes and think we need that and we should plug them into midfield doesn’t mean it’s as easy to deliver.

As seen with Pou. His 2 weeks back at AFL level had us salivating. As did Owens development across the last 18 months.

They are kids. Letting them settle and develop what they are excellent at. Then rounding their skills so that they can consistently deliver for us before we move them all over the ground seems to be the clubs approach and you can’t knock it as wrong at the minute.

 

[Minga]

There aren't many who can extract the ball from the middle like he does.
We see the great finishers, but Crouch is a very very good starter.

He wasn’t a bad finisher in front of goal either tbh.

He’s not a A+ superstar, but he’s definitely an A grade player, and is/was totally underrated at his time with the Saints.

 

[Minga]

In today presser Ross dismisses the idea of Mitch as a mid - "I wouldn't think that plays to his tools."

Which of Mitch's attributes do we think Ross is thinking of?

Mitch has shown “best in the comp” level of talent in the power forward position, so I can understand the coaches thinking.

It’s a tricky one though when we need young mids. Whilst he is a great contested player, probably his weakest attribute is his kick. Which isn’t bad by any means, but he rarely kicks a dagger I’ve noticed, might not be the style we want coming out of the middle (despite the reality of our forward 50 entries lol).

I think this line of development makes sense IF we are bringing in dedicated midfielders. Phillipou coming on eases the tension a bit, but for now Owen’s is going to be a bit of a Heeney hybrid (before Heeney started playing mid this year).

 

[The Punter]

Mitch has shown “best in the comp” level of talent in the power forward position, so I can understand the coaches thinking.

It’s a tricky one though when we need young mids. Whilst he is a great contested player, probably his weakest attribute is his kick. Which isn’t bad by any means, but he rarely kicks a dagger I’ve noticed, might not be the style we want coming out of the middle.

I think this line of development makes sense IF we are bringing in dedicated midfielders. Phillipou coming on eases the tension a bit, but for now Owen’s is going to be a bit of a Heeney hybrid (before Heeney started playing mid this year).

I think with Owens, we need to stop thinking the historical comparison is going to be Lenny Hayes and start thinking more it is going to be Aaron Hamill. Hamill was an elite hard ball winner with little midfield craft and he was positioned accordingly.

 

[stavro#4]

I think with Owens, we need to stop thinking the historical comparison is going to be Lenny Hayes and start thinking more it is going to be Aaron Hamill. Hamill was an elite hard ball winner with little midfield craft and he was positioned accordingly.

The comparison I have in mind.

Ryan O’keffe

He was such a fantastic medium tall that developed a great midfield craft as his career progressed.

 

[The_Steadier]

I think with Owens, we need to stop thinking the historical comparison is going to be Lenny Hayes and start thinking more it is going to be Aaron Hamill. Hamill was an elite hard ball winner with little midfield craft and he was positioned accordingly.

Yep.
The aspiration for mitch is to basically (regularly) do what members did to wet toast-
20+ possies, multiple goals and marks ...and generally crashing around turning the oppositions' shorts brown.

 

[beside the seaside]

Watching Owens last weekend live, he is very impactful as a forward. He's probably one that has been down due to a combination of factors, form being one of them. But I can see the desire to turn him into an effective forward long term.

If he starts clunking marks more regularly he will become a serious weapon. His goal kicking has improved out of sight.

We are desperate for effective forwards as much as mids in my opinion.

 

[The Punter]

All of Owens' stats for this year are down except for goal assists. But he's still fourth at the club in goals and fifth in contested possessions.

A bloke in the forward line who can take a contested mark and win a contested ground ball are rare and very valuable.

 

[littlecreatures]

With respect.

The bolded highlights that the clubs development of Owens and Pou has been correct.

Just because we may see attributes and think we need that and we should plug them into midfield doesn’t mean it’s as easy to deliver.

As seen with Pou. His 2 weeks back at AFL level had us salivating. As did Owens development across the last 18 months.

They are kids. Letting them settle and develop what they are excellent at. Then rounding their skills so that they can consistently deliver for us before we move them all over the ground seems to be the clubs approach and you can’t knock it as wrong at the minute.

Good points, and definitely agree for the most part, I would just like to see a more rounded approach to Chito’s development which has probably been lacking this year in contrast to Pou (for a variety of extenuating reasons).

I am hoping Mitch can have a proper pre season which was realistically quite hampered last off season when they needed to pull him back. I suspect this will give him more opportunity for diversity in his role rather than just getting lost in the forward line at times.

 

[gringo2011]

He wasn’t a bad finisher in front of goal either tbh.

He’s not a A+ superstar, but he’s definitely an A grade player, and is/was totally underrated at his time with the Saints.

Probably only injury stopped him being considered a top 10 midfielder in his time at the Crows. Around their grand final appearance the Crouches were absolute top line inside mids. Probably overshadowed a bit by having Danger and Sloan running around next to them.

 

[John2010362340]

Mitch Owens is a higher end Max Rooke type. Rarely looses 1on1's tough as nails. He will show his most value as a forward. Good atm in the air has potential to be great. Needs to tidy up his ground ball, he's there more often then not just has to tidy up his first touch. If he can reduce the fumbles inside the forward 50 we have a a pretty special player on our hands. With significant match winning capabilities.

 

[Joffaboy]

It’s because at AFL level Chito just gets lost in the structures of an AFL midfield.

The feedback to him is that the game passes him by.

When he plays forward. It’s very simple.

See ball. Win ball.

Doesn’t have to worry about his man running the other way. Doesn’t get lost when it’s his time to go etc.

So what’s happened is that we have effectively developed an elite medium tall forward (struggling with form) - but an average midfielder at this point. With Owens being so young in his development. They want to focus on building on the area where he looks exceptional and in time that should allow greater midfield time. Also helps that all our other tall forwards are broken.

But it won’t be Chito the mid anytime soon - which is why those talking it up as something they would like and how it would impact trading and drafting are very off base currently.

Future state. Maybe. Probably.

Now. Short term. Nope.

This is a great articulation of the development of Chito. I wish this could be explained to the nuffies on Facebook and other SM who demand and piss and moan when he is not used in the guts.

Ratts tried him there as an abject failure. Pou, who everyone considers a pure mid was made to look 5th rate against Tom Green in the finals last year. Could not get going this year and had to have over a month in the two's before finding his midfield mojo. Chito would fare worse if thrust into the mids.
Holy hell most AFL players hit their prime from about 24 onwards. We are all impatient for success however the development of the youngsters needs to be managed.

 

[bergholt]

He seems to have elite traits which we have been crying out for forever. The power and burst from stoppages and congestion.

Burst? Mitchito? He very rarely finds the ball in space, don’t think he has any sort of pace or burst at this point.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You don't let players of Oliver's quality go unless there are serious issues. If they are willing to let him walk out you'd think that the issues haven't been dealt with.

I was laughing listening to SEN yesterday.
Should Melbourne trade Oliver.
1 view. No way, if he can get back to his best , he can get back to his best at Melbourne.
2nd view. He'll never get back to his best , let him go.
Saints supporter, they should trade him to the saints for Max King.
Me..." hang on , they only want to trade him if they think he'll never get back to his best , so why would WE think that we can get him back to his best. Melbourne aren't stupid...sometimes WE are stupid ".

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I was laughing listening to SEN yesterday.
Should Melbourne trade Oliver.
1 view. No way, if he can get back to his best , he can get back to his best at Melbourne.
2nd view. He'll never get back to his best , let him go.
Saints supporter, they should trade him to the saints for Max King.
Me..." hang on , they only want to trade him if they think he'll never get back to his best , so why would WE think that we can get him back to his best. Melbourne aren't stupid...sometimes WE are stupid ".

Correction;

A number of our supporters are exceedingly stupid.

Somehow they always seem to be the ones who get through to radio talkback.

 

[ScrappyDo]

If Battle leaves, the main reason would be for money (i know there are other factors but the money is the main reason)

We have offered a contract of same years as Hawthorn at 850k per year, and band 1 is 900k. Unless he's a stingy little **** trying to get an extra <50k out of Hawthorn per year, we'll get band 1 if he leaves

I disagree. The difference between the two offers is maybe 5% so it'll be a matter of the heart and/or premiership prospects.

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

Rob Harvey was lauded, when he recognized that Mitch’s abilities were congruent with a third tall like player in the forward line. It was this positional change that was attributed to his breakout season. He seems to me very similar to Cam Rayner but Mitch has been MIA for a very long time now, hopefully it’s just confidence and will turn around soon.

I really value Dermott Breretons opinion and I remember him saying last year he expects Mitch to be a top 5 player in the AFL at some stage- I do wonder if what he would say now though.

 

[MrFoster]

Not having a go at you personally, what you say makes sense but it just seems so conservative. I must be living in cloud cuckoo land. He seems to have elite traits which we have been crying out for forever. The power and burst from stoppages and congestion. The game has passed him by in the forward line all year as well. We are desperate for elite players and are dramatically lowering his ceiling with this approach. What’s his highest upside as a medium forward? Zurhaar or Stringer would be a disappointment from the potential he showed last year. Data showed a Dustin Martin level of contested ability. I guess David King was right and he is Max Rooke. The only way to develop midfield craft is to play him as one which Lyon clearly has no appetite for.

Have you seen the Owens composure and skills in tight? They are not the best even he he is on the outside, will be lost / fumbling / turnover merchant on the inside.

 

[Brains Trust66]

Would like to get peoples opinions on Bonner . To me it seems like he gets the ball a lot but his disposal can be shocking at times with lots of turnovers.