Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[gokangas]

There will be many reports on this whole saga and journalists will focus on the most inflammatory bits. A lot of hurt will be generated and I'm just not sure how this is resolved amicably, or maybe it's beyond that. I think I understand the indigenous folks hurt and I also understand that whilst many comments may not be intended to be racist, they can (and have) been taken that way.

 

[DocSholl]

At that meeting:

(a) there was initially some friendly and positive discussion about how impressed the coaches were with Mr Peterson’s development and skills as a player;

(b) Mr Burt then informed Mr Peterson that he had shared the Mr Peterson’s newswith Mr Clarkson and Mr Fagan;

(c) Mr Burt said words to the effect: “Carl, being a father is a huge responsibility and we don’t think you’re ready to be a father”;

(d) Mr Clarkson said words to the effect: “Carl, you need to break up with Nikita and focus only on your football”

Mr Clarkson said words to the effect: “unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy”;

This is remarkably different to how Jackson and Binmada portrayed the discussion.

It is worth noting that Peterson failed a drug test while at Hawthorn too.

When you consider the power imbalance between Peterson and Clarkson, I'm not sure it is all that different tbh. Jackson's account just adds some more forceful language (eg - demanded) which is entirely plausible that it could have been received that way. If that statement is true (and it may not be), then he literally did tell Peterson to terminate if he wanted a football career. It's shocking.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

There will be many reports on this whole saga and journalists will focus on the most inflammatory bits. A lot of hurt will be generated and I'm just not sure how this is resolved amicably, or maybe it's beyond that. I think I understand the indigenous folks hurt and I also understand that whilst many comments may not be intended to be racist, they can (and have) been taken that way.

I still think Hawthorn won't let this go to court. They'll cough up and make an apology of some sort.

 

[gokangas]

I still think Hawthorn won't let this go to court. They'll cough up and make an apology of some sort.

Should have done that before the docs hit the court - from their point of view its too late to minimise the damage to their brand.

 

[giantroo]

 

[The Warlord]

It will be. Think I'd sooner sack an employee before I gave them family planning advice.

It comes back to the whole "footy is just another business/job" thing where it most patently isnit.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

Wanganeen wasn't on their list in 2015.

 

[Disco Dew]

It’s a pretty common nickname for that reason

It’s also a common nickname for those who never wear pants or are partial to a fancy yellow hat

 

[The Warlord]

Clarko not being named is only because he was part of the Hawthorn football club and it seems from reading that document that the Hawthorn football club as a whole had an issue with the how they dealt with the Indigenous players that played for them and to be honest I would suggest most clubs would have similar issues if they dug deep enough.

Very interesting how often Mark Evans pops up, along with a Dimma mention.

AFL will be shitscared at their Gold Coast baby being collateral damage here.

 

[Disco Dew]

I still think Hawthorn won't let this go to court. They'll cough up and make an apology of some sort.

I think it’s too late for that.

 

[The Warlord]

When you consider the power imbalance between Peterson and Clarkson, I'm not sure it is all that different tbh. Jackson's account just adds some more forceful language (eg - demanded) which is entirely plausible that it could have been received that way. If that statement is true (and it may not be), then he literally did tell Peterson to terminate if he wanted a football career. It's shocking.

Peterson's version of what Clarkson said in that meeting has changed a few times.

 

[The Warlord]

It’s also a common nickname for those who never wear pants or are partial to a fancy yellow hat

And get in all manner of strife.

 

[The Warlord]

Should have done that before the docs hit the court - from their point of view its too late to minimise the damage to their brand.

They can still repair it.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

The only mention of Fagan was that he nodded his head.

Has been portayed as a major player in this in the media coverage.

 

[Disco Dew]

Peterson's version of what Clarkson said in that meeting has changed a few times.

So it would seem. However it all comes back to someone (clarko) in power suggesting they terminate a pregnancy which is well off for mine.

my own experience of this, in a completely different context, having a gp strongly urge us to consider it with our last pregnancy was horrible. I can’t imagine how it would feel to have that coming from a coach or anyone outside of the medical field.

 

[leighlee13]

Hawthorn racism scandal: Federal Court documents reveal full extent of Alastair Clarkson allegations​

Almost two years after the Hawthorn racism scandal broke, allegations against multiple former club chiefs have been formalised in an 89-page statement of claim in Federal Court.

Michael Warner

August 5, 2024 - 3:09PM

Documents have been lodged with the Federal Court detailing how Alastair Clarkson allegedly told a Hawthorn player to “break up” with his partner and “tell her to terminate the pregnancy” or his football career would be “in jeopardy”.
Almost two years afterthe Hawks racism scandalfirst broke, allegations against multiple former club chiefs have been formalised in an 89-page statement of claim.

Hawks great Cyril Rioli is the lead applicant in the court action in which five former Hawthorn figures and their partners – Shannyn Ah Sam-Rioli, Carl Peterson, Jermaine Miller-Lewis, Montanah-Rae Lewis and Leon Egan – are seeking damages, aggravated damages and apologies from the club.

The statement of claim also identifies four-time Hawthorn premiership star Grant Birchall

14

Grant Birchall

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36

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193cm

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89kg

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Def

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21.9

5star

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12.6

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9.3

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5.8

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1.6

4star

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250.0

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13.3

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9.2

4star

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4.2

3star

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4.3

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1.3

2star

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250.0

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14.0

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7.6

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6.4

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2.6

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0.6

3star

as the player who allegedly made a racial slur in reference to the partner of former Hawk and now Saint Bradley Hill on an end-of-season player’s trip in Bali.

“At the end of the 2013 season … at an end-of-season player’s trip, an Indigenous player (Mr Bradley Hill) was asked by a non-Indigenous player (Mr Grant Birchall

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Grant Birchall

Age

36

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193cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Def

Career

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Last 5

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21.9

5star

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12.6

5star

HB

9.3

5star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

250.0

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D

13.3

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

4.3

4star

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1.3

2star

MG

250.0

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14.0

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7.6

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6.4

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2.6

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0.6

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) whether Mr Hill’s partner was also a ‘boong’,” the document alleges.

“Mr Hill told Mr Rioli of this comment at the first pre-season training session around late November 2013 … Hawthorn did not take any action in response to this incident.”

Explosive claims Hawks chiefs pressured former Indigenous player Carl Petersen and his partner Nikita Rotumah to terminate a pregnancy during the 2009 season have been central to the scandal.

The documents recount an alleged conversation held between Clarkson, Peterson, then Hawks official and now Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan and Hawthorn welfare officer Jason Burt in a small office at the club’s Waverley headquarters.

“Mr Clarkson, Mr Fagan and Mr Burt were present in the room before Mr Peterson arrived,” the document says.

“There was initially some friendly and positive discussion about how impressed the coaches were with Mr Peterson’s development and skills as a player.

“Mr Burt then informed Mr Peterson that he had shared Mr Peterson’s news with Mr Clarkson and Mr Fagan.

“Mr Burt said words to the effect: ‘Carl, being a father is a huge responsibility and we don’t think you’re ready to be a father.’

“Mr Clarkson said words to the effect: ‘Carl, you need to break up with Nikita and focus only on your football.’

“Mr Clarkson said words to the effect: ‘Unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy.’

“Mr Fagan nodded his head during the meeting”.

The document further asserts that Mr Peterson was given an hour to make a decision.

The statement of claim also references an incident in May 2015 when Clarkson allegedly turned up to a meeting held by several Hawthorn Indigenous players over a proposed boycott amid fallout from the Adam Goodes booing saga.

“Mr Clarkson … invited himself to the meeting … imposed himself on, and derailed, the meeting, by bringing his guitar and singing a song about Mr Rioli … (and) discouraged the players from going through with the boycott.”

The Hawks have one month in which to file a defence.

The AFL launched an “independent” inquiry into the Hawthorn racism claims in September 2022, which ended last year with “no adverse findings” made against Clarkson, Fagan or Burt.

Mediation between the players and the former Hawthorn figures has failed to reach a settlement.

Clarkson, now senior coach at North Melbourne, has said that he would welcome the matter going to the Federal Court and was hopeful he would be called to give evidence.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have repeatedly denied wrongdoing.

The amount of money being sought by the complainants is not disclosed in the documents.

“As we have done throughout this process, we will continue to work towards a resolution in a fair and timely manner for all parties,” Hawthorn president Andy Gowers said in a statement. “The Federal Court process will importantly give Hawthorn Football Club the opportunity to respond to these allegations.”

“Given the matter is now before the courts, it would be inappropriate to make any kind of comment that could impact on that process.”

In May, the Herald Sun revealed two secret reports commissioned by the AFL into the Hawthorn racism scandal found “a startling lack of evidence” in the cases alleged against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.

The separate reports, authored by a retired Federal Court judge and a top city law firm, concluded that the gravest allegation – that an Indigenous player and his partner were pressured to terminate a pregnancy – could not be substantiated.

A claim that the Hawks had demanded the separation of another First Nations family for the sake of the player’s career was also considered to be “lacking in evidence”.

The two reports – one by Justice John Middleton and the other by Gordon Legal – found that there was “no basis whatsoever” to support suggestions a sub-culture of racism had existed at Hawthorn or that the three accused club officials had behaved in anything other than a “caring” way for their players.

The AFL Commission relied upon the reports to terminate the four-person independent investigation panel led by Bernard Quinn KC, which had failed to make any findings eight months after being established following the leaking of the Hawthorn “cultural safety review” in grand final week 2022.

 

[The Warlord]

So it would seem. However it all comes back to someone (clarko) in power suggesting they terminate a pregnancy which is well off for mine.

my own experience of this, in a completely different context, having a gp strongly urge us to consider it with our last pregnancy was horrible. I can’t imagine how it would feel to have that coming from a coach or anyone outside of the medical field.

My understanding is this one is denied by Clarko. I might be wrong.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

It must also be stated that Peterson's claim that "Unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy."
are stated as words to the effect of, so they are not direct quotes from Clarkson and are only Peterson’s recollection which may be exaggerated or dramatised for maximum effect.

 

[FlyHigh18]

it's certainly dialed down from the tone of the article, much more direct and removes the agenda that the ABC article writer had.

like some here are saying, when you're in a position power, in this case over their employment, you just can't tell ppl to get an abortion and then imply they may lose their job.

the ABC article tried to tie that instance to racism which was very unfair, but it still is very unethical.

on the other hand, i can't see Olympic athlete coaches doing any less. but i guess the difference there is that it's the athlete hiring them, not the other way around.

i hope he didn't say it. and if he did, is there a punishment for it?

 

[Merlin007]

It must also be stated that Peterson's claim that "Unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy."
are stated as words to the effect of, so they are not direct quotes from Clarkson and are only Peterson’s recollection which may be exaggerated or dramatised for maximum effect.

'to the effect of' is standard legal phrasing, and won't necessarily do any harm to the case. On the other hand, it would seem to be agreed that Ms Rotumah only has Mr Peterson's account of the meeting, which would otherwise be considered hearsay

 

[Merlin007]

On another point of detail, Hawthorn people pointing out Derrick Wanganeen was unlikely to be at the 'boycott' meeting in 2015 because he'd been delisted the previous year. There's some typos in the document (Clarkson is Mr Clark at one point) so the drafters could do with a fact checker/proof reader

 

[The Warlord]

It must also be stated that Peterson's claim that "Unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy."
are stated as words to the effect of, so they are not direct quotes from Clarkson and are only Peterson’s recollection which may be exaggerated or dramatised for maximum effect.

His words "to the effect of" keep changing pretty dramatically.

At first Clarko leaned over him and shouted at him to get an abortion, now it is a chat in a room that starts off well and then takes that turn.

Given the keenness for those also in the room to get under oath and give their version of events I reckon there's plenty yet to play out in this one.

 

[the big lebowski]

Anyone find that photo of clarko at training last year having a playful wrestle with a kid. I think it was Aaron halls kid.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

The worst allegation is very specific to this one player and situation. There’s no suggestion of a problem for other players, indigenous or not, to have children. So you’d assume there’s more to be said about what others in the room recall of the conversation. If it happened, it’s bad. No way anyone would forget it.

 

[the big lebowski]

Just to be clear,

Clarko is alleged to have said terminate the baby or your career is in jeopardy.

The pregnancy was not terminated

The player was given a contract extension

Yes?