Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Devington]

I'm no law-talking guy but can someone explain how these allegations get another run and yet the three accused still have to wait to share their side of the story?!

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They can talk publicly any time they want, it's just that it's been incredibly disadvantageous to do so while there have been pending and active investigations/lawsuits etc.

They did have to wait a hell of a long time to formally submit to the AFL (in fact iirc the investigation never even got to that stage.)

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Personally I think the number of aboriginal players taken with speculative picks will decrease, but that's as much an opinion based on the gentrification of the AFL as it is this stuff.

I don't have much faith in the AFL investing enough resources to identify draft talent in some of the more isolated areas, considering how much they've trended towards trying to get every footballer into elite private schools where they reach 18 and their pre-draft interviews sound like they were half written by a professional PR manager.

The number of indigenous players being drafted is down significantly and we know this because the AFL is reintroducing clubs' access to their academy kids inside the top 40 picks specifically for this very reason. Whether the fall in numbers has any connection to issues emerging from Hawthorn is debatable.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

I think you can guarantee any of the players indiscretions will be made public.
Particularly Peterson given the people he named all say the meeting didn't happen.
I'm not really into speculation, but can't help thinking that Peterson asked the club for help to get away from his partner, but has subsequently told his partner a different story. I'm lead to believe taking responsibility was never Peterson's strong suit.

I wouldn't know if any of that is true but it's certainly possible that a little fib told many years ago has grown into this horrible reality for many people. And certainly the Seinfeld joke about it not being a lie if you believe it carries a degree of validity in the sense that memory is a very malleable faculty, and you can absolutely store away a lie as a truth that you choose to believe until you can no longer tell the difference.

 

[Event Horizon]

What an effing circus. Humphrey B Bear FFS. Bringing in a guitar to a meeting to diffuse the heated situation? That’s an accusation? Are they serious?

Next I’m expecting Tarryn Thomas

26

Tarryn Thomas

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.3

5star

CL

0.9

3star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.2

4star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

0.4

3star

to join the legal action, claiming Clarkson and Viney told him to stop texting his former partner.


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[DuckYeah]

Ridiculous comment.

You are allowed to disagree. Im allowed an opinion. After reading in almost its entirety before falling asleep. Which organisation wants this? This opens up a can of worms for every club who has been “culturally insensitive” to be sued. Thats what this is, Insensitive to culture. And Peterson who was/is a crack addict looking for a payout.

If you suffered significant trauma, you dont go back to club almost 10 years later. With the entire famil, including your mrs. He was on the list for 2 years. Its a crock of shit.

If the peterson shit wasn’t in there and miller lewis accusations, this would be laughed all the way down the street.

 

[DuckYeah]

And I dont believe Clarko assaulted a child either

 

[DuckYeah]

Just as we feel like we are bringing our club together. Couldn’t happen at a better time.

Burn em all Clarkson

 

[ChairmanZia]

I'm no law-talking guy but can someone explain how these allegations get another run and yet the three accused still have to wait to share their side of the story?!

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It's part of the social trend, i.e. retrospective racism accusation. Some actual, others maybe, some opportunistic.

These players for various reasons have axes to grind. Some are disgruntled former employees living lives tough so they want some money, others had genuine reasons and want closure.

I just hope our club doesn't implode again just as we are starting to see some cohesion with the playing list.

 

[The Warlord]

I never saw it in the Egan report, so my understanding is that it is new (as is the Birchall allegation).

The Adam Goodes stuff wasn't in the Egan Report either, nor was the Kennett jeans stuff, which tells you its main purpose.

 

[The Warlord]

If that is mid-2019, when did the other alleged incident happen? The threatening meeting at the club?

10 years before.

 

[The Warlord]

Matt Rendell got dragged across the coals for saying pretty much exactly that. Adam Simpson was a littler more subtle when he suggested clubs would only draft private school boys.

And Sydney have spun it beautifully by calling it a "No Dickheads" culture.

 

[The Warlord]

Is it Peterson vs the world over the termination claim?

Yes, seems so.

Isn’t the allegation that the people present were Burt, Clarkson, Fagan in and Peterson?
Then afterwards Peterson, Burt and Clarkson?
I’m curious to know what documentation if any Hawthorn has from the time that add more details to the circumstances.

I suspect a conversation about his circumstances that involved termination as an option took place.

 

[The Warlord]

This opens up the door for Jamie MacMillan to sue West Coast over calling him a horse. :stern look

Clarkson has certain hot topic issues his legal team need to kill, at whatever the cost, otherwise his career and legacy is done for. I think if he/his legal team weren't confident of killing these then they probably would have made more of an effort during mediation. This is the area which is going to get bloody, including a likely defamation suit which will require them to prove their allegations. It is going to get ugly.

There will be no defamation suit for a variety of reasons.

Clarko's career with us is fine.

 

[The Warlord]

No it doesn’t.

Peterson was a hot head.
A consistent drug user. I wonder if Hawthorn will reveal this.

Just a really immature young man who made terrible choices.
It’s no secret he used to joke publicly about how he fathered children to multiple women and they were all after him.

I would not believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

The inclusion of his failed drug test at Hawthorn is acknowledgement of this.

 

[Merlin007]

This is Carl talking to the Age in May 2011 after he was delisted. I fear for the man if he's in the witness box.

Carl's new dawn​

May 21, 2011 — 12.00am
This was published 13 years ago
FOR CARL Peterson, tonight's Dreamtime at the MCG will be much more than an opportunity to be part of the game that has become an important milestone in Australia's reconciliation journey.
The former Hawk has three reasons to be excited about his first appearance on the MCG turf since a season that included an abundance of highs ended with an awful low - his sudden, enforced departure from Hawthorn last year.
The first is that he has a role to play in the curtain-raiser - running water for one of the teams of young indigenous players from the Footy Means Business program run by the AFL and mining giant Rio Tinto.
''Two of the boys are from the country town that I'm from [Kununurra in Western Australia] and another two went to Clontarf [the indigenous school and sporting academy Peterson attended in Perth]," he says.
''I went and saw them at Punt Road on Tuesday and they're all pretty keen to get out there.''
The second reason is that his five-year-old son, Kanoa, will be part of the half-time entertainment in the main game between Richmond and Essendon. ''It's pretty funny because, when I was playing, he'd want to get on there all the time. Now he gets his chance, so he's pretty excited,'' he said.
The third reason goes a little deeper. The return will be a reminder of the world 23-year-old Peterson embraced with exuberance but struggled to cope with - a world he still holds hopes of re-connecting with.
Elite football requires structure, rigid discipline and efficient time management - and the simple truth of it is that Peterson lacked in all these areas during his time at Hawthorn, despite the efforts of a support network led by player welfare officer Jason Burt, development coach David Flood and coach Alastair Clarkson.
It wasn't that he wantonly set out to break team rules; it was more that, when he did miss a training session [or arrive at the wrong venue], he would feel so guilty that he would simply go missing - sometimes for days at a time.
''It's hard to explain,'' he says now. ''But I'd feel bad that I'd let people down and you go into your shell.''
When Hawthorn took the hard decision to delist Peterson after he played 17 games in 2010, Burt arranged to go with him to see Mike Cooke, a successful builder who holds a unique place in Hawthorn history, having played just two senior games as full-forward - a second semi-final and a grand final in 1975.
Cooke had joined Hawthorn on its Kokoda adventure in 2009, struck up a rapport with Peterson over the eight days of trekking, and given him some part-time work as a chippie last year.
He agreed to help Peterson get his life back on track, offering full-time work, support through a carpentry apprenticeship and the opportunity for play footy for fun with Old Carey, the club Cooke had helped steer from the basement of amateur footy to A grade.
The beginning wasn't exactly smooth, because Peterson lost his driving licence on Australia Day and felt so bad that he'd let Cooke down that he disappeared. He hasn't looked back.
''It's all going really, really well,'' is how Cooke sums it up.
Peterson has made a big impression at his new club - and not just because of his ability to perform freakish acts on the field or the presence of Kanoa kicking a footy on the boundary.
When someone remarked early in the season that it was impressive of Peterson to arrive before the reserves game, he responded with his trademark grin and declared: ''You've got to be there to support the players. That's the Old Carey way!''
He is also playing a mentoring role to Germaine Wungungmurra, a teenager from Elco Island who is playing for Old Carey's under-19s and will feature in tonight's curtain-raiser at the 'G.
Peterson's performances at work and in the classroom are also impressing. ''I'm loving it,'' is how he puts it. ''I'm enjoying my footy and loving my job. You build something and you get to look at it at the end of the day. I train twice a week and it's still a pretty high level of footy.''
Peterson credits the Hawthorn support network, Cooke's example and commitment, and the strength and love of his partner Nikita with putting him in a very happy space.
''Jason Burt did a lot for me, David Flood, Clarko - they had a lot of faith in me and Michael Cooke is another one of those blokes. He's given me the opportunity to work for him.
''I'm just lucky I've had those people. I see Jason Burt around the place. They're friends that you make for life and we catch up now and again and have a good chat.''
While the extended support network is keen to help position Peterson to have another crack at the AFL, there is a confidence that, even if that opportunity doesn't come again, he is developing the life skills to succeed in whatever path he takes.
''At the moment, my dream is to build a house for my family, but I also want to give it another crack at football and see how far I can go,'' says Peterson. ''If that happens, I'm happy. If it doesn't happen, I'm still happy. I'm in a good position to carry out life in a happy way.''
Tonight, Peterson will watch from the sidelines with Nikita and 14-month-old son Lovelle as Kanoa makes his debut. ''It will definitely make me proud watching him go out on the 'G,'' he says. Tomorrow, Peterson will be back playing for Old Carey at Elsternwick Park.

 

[DuckYeah]

This is Carl talking to the Age in May 2011 after he was delisted. I fear for the man if he's in the witness box.

Carl's new dawn​

May 21, 2011 — 12.00am
This was published 13 years ago
FOR CARL Peterson, tonight's Dreamtime at the MCG will be much more than an opportunity to be part of the game that has become an important milestone in Australia's reconciliation journey.
The former Hawk has three reasons to be excited about his first appearance on the MCG turf since a season that included an abundance of highs ended with an awful low - his sudden, enforced departure from Hawthorn last year.
The first is that he has a role to play in the curtain-raiser - running water for one of the teams of young indigenous players from the Footy Means Business program run by the AFL and mining giant Rio Tinto.
''Two of the boys are from the country town that I'm from [Kununurra in Western Australia] and another two went to Clontarf [the indigenous school and sporting academy Peterson attended in Perth]," he says.
''I went and saw them at Punt Road on Tuesday and they're all pretty keen to get out there.''
The second reason is that his five-year-old son, Kanoa, will be part of the half-time entertainment in the main game between Richmond and Essendon. ''It's pretty funny because, when I was playing, he'd want to get on there all the time. Now he gets his chance, so he's pretty excited,'' he said.
The third reason goes a little deeper. The return will be a reminder of the world 23-year-old Peterson embraced with exuberance but struggled to cope with - a world he still holds hopes of re-connecting with.
Elite football requires structure, rigid discipline and efficient time management - and the simple truth of it is that Peterson lacked in all these areas during his time at Hawthorn, despite the efforts of a support network led by player welfare officer Jason Burt, development coach David Flood and coach Alastair Clarkson.
It wasn't that he wantonly set out to break team rules; it was more that, when he did miss a training session [or arrive at the wrong venue], he would feel so guilty that he would simply go missing - sometimes for days at a time.
''It's hard to explain,'' he says now. ''But I'd feel bad that I'd let people down and you go into your shell.''
When Hawthorn took the hard decision to delist Peterson after he played 17 games in 2010, Burt arranged to go with him to see Mike Cooke, a successful builder who holds a unique place in Hawthorn history, having played just two senior games as full-forward - a second semi-final and a grand final in 1975.
Cooke had joined Hawthorn on its Kokoda adventure in 2009, struck up a rapport with Peterson over the eight days of trekking, and given him some part-time work as a chippie last year.
He agreed to help Peterson get his life back on track, offering full-time work, support through a carpentry apprenticeship and the opportunity for play footy for fun with Old Carey, the club Cooke had helped steer from the basement of amateur footy to A grade.
The beginning wasn't exactly smooth, because Peterson lost his driving licence on Australia Day and felt so bad that he'd let Cooke down that he disappeared. He hasn't looked back.
''It's all going really, really well,'' is how Cooke sums it up.
Peterson has made a big impression at his new club - and not just because of his ability to perform freakish acts on the field or the presence of Kanoa kicking a footy on the boundary.
When someone remarked early in the season that it was impressive of Peterson to arrive before the reserves game, he responded with his trademark grin and declared: ''You've got to be there to support the players. That's the Old Carey way!''
He is also playing a mentoring role to Germaine Wungungmurra, a teenager from Elco Island who is playing for Old Carey's under-19s and will feature in tonight's curtain-raiser at the 'G.
Peterson's performances at work and in the classroom are also impressing. ''I'm loving it,'' is how he puts it. ''I'm enjoying my footy and loving my job. You build something and you get to look at it at the end of the day. I train twice a week and it's still a pretty high level of footy.''
Peterson credits the Hawthorn support network, Cooke's example and commitment, and the strength and love of his partner Nikita with putting him in a very happy space.
''Jason Burt did a lot for me, David Flood, Clarko - they had a lot of faith in me and Michael Cooke is another one of those blokes. He's given me the opportunity to work for him.
''I'm just lucky I've had those people. I see Jason Burt around the place. They're friends that you make for life and we catch up now and again and have a good chat.''
While the extended support network is keen to help position Peterson to have another crack at the AFL, there is a confidence that, even if that opportunity doesn't come again, he is developing the life skills to succeed in whatever path he takes.
''At the moment, my dream is to build a house for my family, but I also want to give it another crack at football and see how far I can go,'' says Peterson. ''If that happens, I'm happy. If it doesn't happen, I'm still happy. I'm in a good position to carry out life in a happy way.''
Tonight, Peterson will watch from the sidelines with Nikita and 14-month-old son Lovelle as Kanoa makes his debut. ''It will definitely make me proud watching him go out on the 'G,'' he says. Tomorrow, Peterson will be back playing for Old Carey at Elsternwick Park.

 

[Orange Peanut]

You can only imagine what he's up for on the witness stand.

Surely a lawyer is going to ask if he told his wife the club wanted him to get an abortion when they never actually said that. And they will keep asking it. So far the whole story seems to based on what he told his partner.

I imagine it would be a very difficult thing to prove, unless someone from the club admits it.

 

[krakouers]

You can only imagine what he's up for on the witness stand.

Surely a lawyer is going to ask if he told his wife the club wanted him to get an abortion when they never actually said that. And they will keep asking it. So far the whole story seems to based on what he told his partner.

I imagine it would be a very difficult thing to prove, unless someone from the club admits it.

I would imagine the lawyer has told him it is difficult to get them to confirm it but they want to use it to portray the Club as this evil authority over them

 

[Disco Dew]

''Jason Burt did a lot for me, David Flood, Clarko - they had a lot of faith in me and Michael Cooke is another one of those blokes. He's given me the opportunity to work for him.
''I'm just lucky I've had those people. I see Jason Burt around the place. They're friends that you make for life and we catch up now and again and have a good chat.''

It’s not uncommon for people to talk favorably of someone who has wronged them.

 

[Devington]

It’s not uncommon for people to talk favorably of someone who has wronged them.

Becomes more of an issue when he did it multiple times over multiple years and went back to the club a couple of times too.

 

[The Warlord]

It is very possible, I would say likely, that Peterson is out for a cash grab while Cyril has very genuine concerns on Kennett and the Goodes stuff.

 

[Only Forwards]

I absolutely believe that there will have been a conversation (s) that took place around selection of partner, and around termination of pregnancy.

However I also hold the opinion that someone taken in the fourth round of the rookie draft is about as remote a shot at a prolonged AFL career as you can possibly get.

I vehemently think this is incorrect:

had sufficient skill and abilities as a football player of that age to have a long and successful career.

There were 130 picks taken prior to him being selected. He may have had potential but that far into the draft his selection has to be regarded as speculative. That is before you take into account that he'd already had a run at it with Richmond.

So in order for such a remote pick to make it they probably have to shut out most of their life and become almost solely focussed on football. At least until they establish themselves.

I also think the phrase "words to the effect" do a lot the heavy lifting, in terms of the implied intent behind them. Very easy to change the implied intent by keeping the main beats of what was claimed to be said and changing some works like will to may.

"unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy”

"unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career may be in jeopardy”

It changes it from sounding like a threat to sounding like a recommendation. If a single word can do that I expect that this is going to be a fair chunk of what gets argued. The language used and the intent behind it being centred in miscommunication.

 

[Merlin007]

It’s not uncommon for people to talk favorably of someone who has wronged them.

True, and Carl's counsel will probably make that point in court.

In reply, counsel for the club will likely point to the following course of events:

1. Carl was engaged as a player with a known drug problem, as he acknowledges in the statement of claim.
2. Sometime in the middle of 2009, Carl and the 3 club officials met to discuss his domestic and parenting situation. Unless there are contemporaneous notes of that meeting, what was said at that meeting is difficult to substantiate, but suffice to say accounts of what transpired differs between Carl and the 3 officials. Ms Rotumah was not present, and her understanding of what occurred derives from what Carl told her, and as such her evidence is hearsay and will likely be deemed as such by the court.
3. The appropriateness of the meeting is open to criticism, eg the lack of a support person for Carl. However a failure of process does not necessarily constitute unlawful discrimination.
4. Whatever was said at the meeting, Carl apparently suffered no detriment at that time in terms of his career - the pregnancy was not terminated, and he went on to play 17 games for the club the following year (2010).
5. Carl was delisted at the end of 2010. He has twice publicly stated his career at Hawthorn ended because of his own lack of professionalism. He has publicly commended the club and its officials for the support he was provided with, including post-football employment. It is possible the club will call his subsequent employer Michael Cooke to provide witness evidence. Carl's lack of professionalism seems to be well-known in football circles.
6. Notwithstanding his claim to personal and economic harm from the events in 2009, Carl chose to take his family to a club function in 2019. The family included child "LP", who from media comments he made in 2011, would appear to be the son borne of the pregnancy the club officials requested be aborted. The credibility of this course of events is obviously open to question.
7. With no context, but apparently in public view, Clarkson pins a 9-10 year old child against a wall with his forearm. Again, the credibility of this incident is open to question.

I just hope Leon Zwier has properly briefed his client, but the holes in the statement of claim don't lead me to optimism.

 

[The Warlord]

I absolutely believe that there will have been a conversation (s) that took place around selection of partner, and around termination of pregnancy.

However I also hold the opinion that someone taken in the fourth round of the rookie draft is about as remote a shot at a prolonged AFL career as you can possibly get.

I vehemently think this is incorrect:


There were 130 picks taken prior to him being selected. He may have had potential but that far into the draft his selection has to be regarded as speculative. That is before you take into account that he'd already had a run at it with Richmond.

So in order for such a remote pick to make it they probably have to shut out most of their life and become almost solely focussed on football. At least until they establish themselves.

I also think the phrase "words to the effect" do a lot the heavy lifting, in terms of the implied intent behind them. Very easy to change the implied intent by keeping the main beats of what was claimed to be said and changing some works like will to may.

"unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy”

"unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career may be in jeopardy”

It changes it from sounding like a threat to sounding like a recommendation. If a single word can do that I expect that this is going to be a fair chunk of what gets argued. The language used and the intent behind it being centred in miscommunication.

The fact there was no termination and he did get back with her and wasn't immediatley sacked also hurts him.

And that he didn't last at another club.

 

[desie]

For some Aboriginal people, playing football is possibly the only way they can make a living and provide a future for generations to come. We've also seen Sudanese players come through because society has embraced the multicultural aspect of Australia. It is an amazing thing to watch our game become so diverse. Unfortunately, this opens up players to the dark side of sporting culture (which is still horrific).

The private school thing doesn't matter as much when the AFL is trying so desperately to get into more talent pools. NT still lacks so much funding but can be a complete 180 for communities that are struggling and need support. If the AFL is prepared to do it, then the clubs can embrace it too. How amazing would it be for poverty-stricken communities to get some form of stability through sports where they can provide and also get a proper education? All of a sudden, crime isn't the only outlet and there is a bright future for a lot of kids that need some guidance.

The issue here isn't the AFL. It was Hawthorn. They didn't do enough to make the players feel comfortable (behind the scenes), they didn't provide enough support, and they didn't do what we tried to do with Tarryn. We have to embrace the fact any player (not just Aboriginal) is going to struggle and they need all the support possible to get through it. Footy clubs are an escape from hardship for these blokes and it is just as easy to fall into the dark side (especially when the colour of your skin can become a launch pad for some serious mental health problems stemming from how badly they can be racially vilified). Hawthorn, let the dark side of it take over and did nothing to rectify or make amends. The last thing you want to do is let a player in a rather unfamiliar environment, be subject to conditions that are not comfortable for them and they feel like they are an outsider. Utterly horrifying. I can't imagine what it would be like.

This isn't the only thing with Hawthorn either. Majak Daw copped his fair share too lets not forget.

The club needs to make a stance. I bet you, Clarko, did everything he could to try to embrace all of his players (especially Cyril and co.) because he would know what his Aboriginal teammates at North would've gone through. He saw it himself.

The rot starts at the top. Hawthorn is a disgraceful organisation and the fact three people out of an entire club were singled out just smells like a cover-up for an even bigger issue. I feel so bad for everyone involved except the Hawthorn Football Club because they knew.

There’s a huge opportunity for the AFL and Federal Government to put their money where their mouths are and push towards an NT team as the 20th club given the vehicle it would provide to help elicit practical social outcomes.

Unfortunately the Feds appear more interested in spending $600m on a PNG team in the NRL to help counter the China threat in the Pacific.