Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Makeshift Park]

True, and Carl's counsel will probably make that point in court.

In reply, counsel for the club will likely point to the following course of events:

1. Carl was engaged as a player with a known drug problem, as he acknowledges in the statement of claim.
2. Sometime in the middle of 2009, Carl and the 3 club officials met to discuss his domestic and parenting situation. Unless there are contemporaneous notes of that meeting, what was said at that meeting is difficult to substantiate, but suffice to say accounts of what transpired differs between Carl and the 3 officials. Ms Rotumah was not present, and her understanding of what occurred derives from what Carl told her, and as such her evidence is hearsay and will likely be deemed as such by the court.
3. The appropriateness of the meeting is open to criticism, eg the lack of a support person for Carl. However a failure of process does not necessarily constitute unlawful discrimination.
4. Whatever was said at the meeting, Carl apparently suffered no detriment at that time in terms of his career - the pregnancy was not terminated, and he went on to play 17 games for the club the following year (2010).
5. Carl was delisted at the end of 2010. He has twice publicly stated his career at Hawthorn ended because of his own lack of professionalism. He has publicly commended the club and its officials for the support he was provided with, including post-football employment. It is possible the club will call his subsequent employer Michael Cooke to provide witness evidence. Carl's lack of professionalism seems to be well-known in football circles.
6. Notwithstanding his claim to personal and economic harm from the events in 2009, Carl chose to take his family to a club function in 2019. The family included child "LP", who from media comments he made in 2011, would appear to be the son borne of the pregnancy the club officials requested be aborted. The credibility of this course of events is obviously open to question.
7. With no context, but apparently in public view, Clarkson pins a 9-10 year old child against a wall with his forearm. Again, the credibility of this incident is open to question.

I just hope Leon Zwier has properly briefed his client, but the holes in the statement of claim don't lead me to optimism.

Yep, well summarised.

I really don't understand Zwier's strategy of alluding to serious incidents, like LP allegedly getting assaulted by Clarko, but then failing to provide any specific details around how it came about. It seems to do his client a disservice because when you make serious allegations with this level of vagueness it discredits your claim.

 

[Skarrz]

My wife accidentally got pregnant last year and we had friends say to us you know you don’t have to have the baby if you aren’t ready. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was more along those lines with a young guy freaking out about having a kid, rather than a specifically racist targeted comment

 

[The Warlord]

All the crywanking over Dusty but nobody will mention the intrusive and controlling tactics used on a First Nations player by Damian Hardwick (named in the Statement of Claims against Hawthorn) including Richmond staff breaking into his house.

Kennett's plan to smear Clarko has worked sadly.

 

[The Warlord]

My wife accidentally got pregnant last year and we had friends say to us you know you don’t have to have the baby if you aren’t ready. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was more along those lines with a young guy freaking out about having a kid, rather than a specifically racist targeted comment

Yes this.

 

[blackshadow]

I just hope Leon Zwier has properly briefed his client

My gut feeling is the Zwier didn't really want this in court, he was pushing for a settlement and Hawthorn told him to **** off and now it's blown up in his face.

 

[Merlin007]

Yep, well summarised.

I really don't understand Zwier's strategy of alluding to serious incidents, like LP allegedly getting assaulted by Clarko, but then failing to provide any specific details around how it came about. It seems to do his client a disservice because when you make serious allegations with this level of vagueness it discredits your claim.

It's not unusual for an applicant to 'chuck it in all in', esp. when he's trying to paint a picture of organisational culture (hence I assume the reason Birchall has been brought into it, even though that matter - if you believe Hawthorn posters - was dealt with at the time, to the satisfaction of the 'wronged' party, ie Brad Hill).

As a tactic to extract a settlement, it has a logic - the problem is going to be if particulars are tested

 

[The Warlord]

My gut feeling is the Zwier didn't really want this in court, he was pushing for a settlement and Hawthorn told him to **** off and now it's blown up in his face.

I think this is Zwier's last big set piece to squeeze more cash out of them.

 

[Makeshift Park]

It's not unusual for an applicant to 'chuck it in all in', esp. when he's trying to paint a picture of organisational culture

Yeah I get that, I guess I was just expecting him to chuck in some details to make it sound like they were trying to be comprehensive.

Take the LP section.



I think its fair to say that what's being suggested here is that Clarkson, unprovoked, assaulted a child violently.

Its the kind of serious incident you'd expect a standalone 5 page affidavit on.

"We were visiting Hawthorn training facilities because x... I remember it was July 2019 because y... it was our intention to speak to z... we encountered Clarkson in [which part of the venue]... specify what happened.... who was present... description of how he ended up pinning my son against the wall... this is how we responded at the time... this left my son feeling SOMETHING and me feeling SOMETHING"

Its Zwier's decision to file this with such paucity of detail I find strange.

 

[DuckYeah]

Yeah I get that, I guess I was just expecting him to chuck in some details to make it sound like they were trying to be comprehensive.

Take the LP section.

View attachment 2070367

I think its fair to say that what's being suggested here is that Clarkson, unprovoked, assaulted a child violently.

Its the kind of serious incident you'd expect a standalone 5 page affidavit on.

"We were visiting Hawthorn training facilities because x... I remember it was July 2019 because y... it was our intention to speak to z... we encountered Clarkson in [which part of the venue]... specify what happened.... who was present... description of how he ended up pinning my son against the wall... this is how we responded at the time... this left my son feeling SOMETHING and me feeling SOMETHING"

Its Zwier's decision to file this with such paucity of detail I find strange.

Thats straight to the police. Why didn’t they make a police report?

 

[Merlin007]

Yeah I get that, I guess I was just expecting him to chuck in some details to make it sound like they were trying to be comprehensive.

Take the LP section.

View attachment 2070367

I think its fair to say that what's being suggested here is that Clarkson, unprovoked, assaulted a child violently.

Its the kind of serious incident you'd expect a standalone 5 page affidavit on.

"We were visiting Hawthorn training facilities because x... I remember it was July 2019 because y... it was our intention to speak to z... we encountered Clarkson in [which part of the venue]... specify what happened.... who was present... description of how he ended up pinning my son against the wall... this is how we responded at the time... this left my son feeling SOMETHING and me feeling SOMETHING"

Its Zwier's decision to file this with such paucity of detail I find strange.

I agree completely; the LP material is clearly deficient

 

[tazaa]

This is Carl talking to the Age in May 2011 after he was delisted. I fear for the man if he's in the witness box.

Carl's new dawn​

May 21, 2011 — 12.00am
This was published 13 years ago
FOR CARL Peterson, tonight's Dreamtime at the MCG will be much more than an opportunity to be part of the game that has become an important milestone in Australia's reconciliation journey.
The former Hawk has three reasons to be excited about his first appearance on the MCG turf since a season that included an abundance of highs ended with an awful low - his sudden, enforced departure from Hawthorn last year.
The first is that he has a role to play in the curtain-raiser - running water for one of the teams of young indigenous players from the Footy Means Business program run by the AFL and mining giant Rio Tinto.
''Two of the boys are from the country town that I'm from [Kununurra in Western Australia] and another two went to Clontarf [the indigenous school and sporting academy Peterson attended in Perth]," he says.
''I went and saw them at Punt Road on Tuesday and they're all pretty keen to get out there.''
The second reason is that his five-year-old son, Kanoa, will be part of the half-time entertainment in the main game between Richmond and Essendon. ''It's pretty funny because, when I was playing, he'd want to get on there all the time. Now he gets his chance, so he's pretty excited,'' he said.
The third reason goes a little deeper. The return will be a reminder of the world 23-year-old Peterson embraced with exuberance but struggled to cope with - a world he still holds hopes of re-connecting with.
Elite football requires structure, rigid discipline and efficient time management - and the simple truth of it is that Peterson lacked in all these areas during his time at Hawthorn, despite the efforts of a support network led by player welfare officer Jason Burt, development coach David Flood and coach Alastair Clarkson.
It wasn't that he wantonly set out to break team rules; it was more that, when he did miss a training session [or arrive at the wrong venue], he would feel so guilty that he would simply go missing - sometimes for days at a time.
''It's hard to explain,'' he says now. ''But I'd feel bad that I'd let people down and you go into your shell.''
When Hawthorn took the hard decision to delist Peterson after he played 17 games in 2010, Burt arranged to go with him to see Mike Cooke, a successful builder who holds a unique place in Hawthorn history, having played just two senior games as full-forward - a second semi-final and a grand final in 1975.
Cooke had joined Hawthorn on its Kokoda adventure in 2009, struck up a rapport with Peterson over the eight days of trekking, and given him some part-time work as a chippie last year.
He agreed to help Peterson get his life back on track, offering full-time work, support through a carpentry apprenticeship and the opportunity for play footy for fun with Old Carey, the club Cooke had helped steer from the basement of amateur footy to A grade.
The beginning wasn't exactly smooth, because Peterson lost his driving licence on Australia Day and felt so bad that he'd let Cooke down that he disappeared. He hasn't looked back.
''It's all going really, really well,'' is how Cooke sums it up.
Peterson has made a big impression at his new club - and not just because of his ability to perform freakish acts on the field or the presence of Kanoa kicking a footy on the boundary.
When someone remarked early in the season that it was impressive of Peterson to arrive before the reserves game, he responded with his trademark grin and declared: ''You've got to be there to support the players. That's the Old Carey way!''
He is also playing a mentoring role to Germaine Wungungmurra, a teenager from Elco Island who is playing for Old Carey's under-19s and will feature in tonight's curtain-raiser at the 'G.
Peterson's performances at work and in the classroom are also impressing. ''I'm loving it,'' is how he puts it. ''I'm enjoying my footy and loving my job. You build something and you get to look at it at the end of the day. I train twice a week and it's still a pretty high level of footy.''
Peterson credits the Hawthorn support network, Cooke's example and commitment, and the strength and love of his partner Nikita with putting him in a very happy space.
''Jason Burt did a lot for me, David Flood, Clarko - they had a lot of faith in me and Michael Cooke is another one of those blokes. He's given me the opportunity to work for him.
''I'm just lucky I've had those people. I see Jason Burt around the place. They're friends that you make for life and we catch up now and again and have a good chat.''
While the extended support network is keen to help position Peterson to have another crack at the AFL, there is a confidence that, even if that opportunity doesn't come again, he is developing the life skills to succeed in whatever path he takes.
''At the moment, my dream is to build a house for my family, but I also want to give it another crack at football and see how far I can go,'' says Peterson. ''If that happens, I'm happy. If it doesn't happen, I'm still happy. I'm in a good position to carry out life in a happy way.''
Tonight, Peterson will watch from the sidelines with Nikita and 14-month-old son Lovelle as Kanoa makes his debut. ''It will definitely make me proud watching him go out on the 'G,'' he says. Tomorrow, Peterson will be back playing for Old Carey at Elsternwick Park.

Thanks for sharing this Merlin.

More details and information is coming out and not surprisingly it seems more and more like Peterson is back stabbing and burning those who helped him out big time when he was younger.

This whole report orchestrated by Kennett to get back at Clarko is nothing but a personal vendetta. Kennett had to pay Clarko out. Clarko won. And not only was he never lost to the game, he landed on his feet at North.
And so 3 good men have been slammed and shamed publicly - but Kennett is going to cost his own club millions in settlement deals. And not one dollar will come out of his pocket.

If I was Hawthorn I’d strike Kennetts name from all records at the club for the absolute shambles he has created. All for his own ego.

 

[Danni_Benson]

Thats straight to the police. Why didn’t they make a police report?

For me, that’s the worst allegation against Clarko.

Why didn’t CP pin Clarko up against the wall if he did that to his son?! I can’t imagine any father just standing by and allowing that, particularly given how CP claims he was treated by Clarko in the past. I wonder if CP did do something along those lines and it’s not been included in report? Who in their right mind would just allow that to happen if it did happen?

I don’t have children but if someone did anything of the kind to my nieces I would make the biggest scene and take it further that very second.

Surely if that happened it would have made headlines? I know the media back then was nothing like it is now but surely that would have leaked??

Who is just going to accept someone doing that to their child and not have them charged etc.

And then on the other hand I’m asking myself why would someone just completely fabricate a story like that? It’s a complete and utter mess.

Who I do feel terribly sorry for is Fagan. FMD, a nod.

 

[the big lebowski]

For me, that’s the worst allegation against Clarko.

Why didn’t CP pin Clarko up against the wall if he did that to his son?! I can’t imagine any father just standing by and allowing that. I wonder if CP did do something along those lines and it’s not been included in report. Who in their right mind would just allow that to happen if it did happen?

I don’t have children but if someone did anything of the kind to my nieces I would make the biggest scene and take it further that very second.

Surely if that happened it would have made headlines? I know the media back then was nothing like it is now but surely that would have leaked??

Who is just going to accept someone doing that to their child and not have them charged etc.

And then on the other hand I’m asking myself why would someone just completely fabricate a story like that? It’s a complete and utter mess.

Who I do feel terribly sorry for is Fagan. FMD, a nod.

Clarko would have been touching the kid in a friendly manner. Like he does with everyone. You seen him after a Good Friday match press conference. Constantly touching the kid. Seen him rub tom powells legs?

Probably best to just not touch anyone clarko.

But him being violent or aggressive towards a kid is incomprehensible to me.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I think it will get very uncomfortable for Peterson (and others) if the laywers for Clarko et al run a line of questioning that seeks to establish what Phil Egan had suggested might be the outcome (financial) if he was to make some accusations.

 

[Danni_Benson]

Clarko would have been touching the kid in a friendly manner. Like he does with everyone. You seen him after a Good Friday match press conference. Constantly touching the kid. Seen him rub tom powells legs?

Probably best to just not touch anyone clarko.

But him being violent or aggressive towards a kid is incomprehensible to me.

If that incident has been fabricated or manipulated, that’s the lowest of the low.

IMO, I just can’t imagine in any world Clarko doing something like that to a kid in an aggressive way.

 

[BigRedRoo]

True, and Carl's counsel will probably make that point in court.

In reply, counsel for the club will likely point to the following course of events:

1. Carl was engaged as a player with a known drug problem, as he acknowledges in the statement of claim.
2. Sometime in the middle of 2009, Carl and the 3 club officials met to discuss his domestic and parenting situation. Unless there are contemporaneous notes of that meeting, what was said at that meeting is difficult to substantiate, but suffice to say accounts of what transpired differs between Carl and the 3 officials. Ms Rotumah was not present, and her understanding of what occurred derives from what Carl told her, and as such her evidence is hearsay and will likely be deemed as such by the court.
3. The appropriateness of the meeting is open to criticism, eg the lack of a support person for Carl. However a failure of process does not necessarily constitute unlawful discrimination.
4. Whatever was said at the meeting, Carl apparently suffered no detriment at that time in terms of his career - the pregnancy was not terminated, and he went on to play 17 games for the club the following year (2010).
5. Carl was delisted at the end of 2010. He has twice publicly stated his career at Hawthorn ended because of his own lack of professionalism. He has publicly commended the club and its officials for the support he was provided with, including post-football employment. It is possible the club will call his subsequent employer Michael Cooke to provide witness evidence. Carl's lack of professionalism seems to be well-known in football circles.
6. Notwithstanding his claim to personal and economic harm from the events in 2009, Carl chose to take his family to a club function in 2019. The family included child "LP", who from media comments he made in 2011, would appear to be the son borne of the pregnancy the club officials requested be aborted. The credibility of this course of events is obviously open to question.
7. With no context, but apparently in public view, Clarkson pins a 9-10 year old child against a wall with his forearm. Again, the credibility of this incident is open to question.

I just hope Leon Zwier has properly briefed his client, but the holes in the statement of claim don't lead me to optimism.

On point 2, Fagan denies ever being at a meeting where this topic was discussed and Peterson didn't even bother to show up for the mediation at the HRC.

 

[Tas]

My wife accidentally got pregnant last year and we had friends say to us you know you don’t have to have the baby if you aren’t ready. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was more along those lines with a young guy freaking out about having a kid, rather than a specifically racist targeted comment

I think it was likely that it was something similar to what he said to Mitchell, which was inappropriate imo, but hardly a federal offence. The fact he said something similar to Mitchell goes part way into proving it wasn't racially motivated. The reality is that he was right, right about Mitchell, his family couldn't cope with the addition to his family because his child had health issues, he required the CEO's wife to move in with them and help them out. If nobody else could or would then his career would have gone a different direction after that point.

He should have just left the shit outside of football to someone else qualified to give advice on the matter, because it isn't always about being right or wrong, how you deliver the message matters as well when it comes to vulnerable people.

 

[DuckYeah]

Interesting

 

[ChairmanZia]

The Adam Goodes stuff wasn't in the Egan Report either, nor was the Kennett jeans stuff, which tells you its main purpose.

And lemme tell ya, hfc's legal team will bring that up in the courts to discredit if not dismantle the case.

Also, the fraudulent nature of phil egan will also be brought into attention to completely discredit this case.

 

[Devington]

Interesting

Dunno about cash grab, but I'm pretty sure it was reported even before the ABC article that she had been in contact with other wives/partners. I think Caro was the one to report on it.

EDIT: Funnily enough I have have a memory of Egan (the one that worked for hawthorn) being one of the people pushing for the investigation, and then they hired his cousin and lo and behold...

 

[Merlin007]

On point 2, Fagan denies ever being at a meeting where this topic was discussed and Peterson didn't even bother to show up for the mediation at the HRC.

didn't know that; not a great look from the perspective of the claim

 

[The Warlord]

I think it will get very uncomfortable for Peterson (and others) if the laywers for Clarko et al run a line of questioning that seeks to establish what Phil Egan had suggested might be the outcome (financial) if he was to make some accusations.

Agree, albeit will Clarko have representation?

 

[ChairmanZia]

didn't know that; not a great look from the perspective of the claim

All will be brought up by the hfc legal team...if they are worth their money.

 

[ChairmanZia]

Agree, albeit will Clarko have representation?

No, because he is not the defendant, he may give his account of the events.

 

[Devington]

Agree, albeit will Clarko have representation?

That's a point that needs to be remembered, it's Hawthorn that is the defendant, so it's up to them how they defend. Hell, if they defend. I would have thought if a settlement was ever to be reached it would be before legal action, but here we are and you never know