Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Lomas]

Just gonna throw another pointless opinion in the ring, because this thread doesn't have enough of them, but I find it impossible to believe that Cyril was the one who associated the Humphrey nickname with racism. That allegation is the handiwork of someone actively looking, in bad faith, for offence. Someone like the wife, who'd already been offended by a Kennett comment

Fat Cat called someone Humphrey?!

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

I’d love to know if Peterson’s drug use came up in mediation. If yes, what did ABL do to satisfy themselves it either wasn’t true or would not be discrediting?

Also interested in why they would plead such obvious employment matters like Egan being a contractor or the nature of being on a rookie list.

These employment matters as well as the resolution of Cyril Rioli's contract and payout all looks pretty sloppy and over confident from the lawyer's perspective as though he felt outrage would win the day ahead of valid legal claims.

 

[Black Diamond]

These employment matters as well as the resolution of Cyril Rioli's contract and payout all looks pretty sloppy and over confident from the lawyer's perspective as though he felt outrage would win the day ahead of valid legal claims.

I agree it seems this way. The only reason I am open minded to the claims is because of the lawyers and the firm they work for.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Just gonna throw another pointless opinion in the ring, because this thread doesn't have enough of them, but I find it impossible to believe that Cyril was the one who associated the Humphrey nickname with racism. That allegation is the handiwork of someone actively looking, in bad faith, for offence. Someone like the wife, who'd already been offended by a Kennett comment

I'm not saying that Shannon Ah Sam Rioli has acted in bad faith through any of this but Hawthorn seems to be (saying that). The fact that they put on record their account of her claiming an apology and resignation from Kennett and a pay rise for Cyril due to the torn jeans joke is leaning towards them accusing her of extortion.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

I agree it seems this way. The only reason I am open minded to the claims is because of the lawyers and the firm they work for.

Certainly, Leon Zwier is no Lionel Hutz.

 

[muttley45]

If Stringer gets to Giant's, along with Hogan, Cadman, Brown, etc, Riccardi might not be a regular senior player, worth a look ?

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

If Stringer gets to Giant's, along with Hogan, Cadman, Brown, etc, Riccardi might not be a regular senior player, worth a look ?

Wrong thread? Or have you just listed a new law firm? Hogan Cadman Brown Riccardi representing the accused your honour.

 

[Tas]

There's a term in the top end - "Yellow Fella" that refers to people who had members of the Makassan people in their ancestry. Its not a term of disrespect or anything afaik but is sposed to acknowledge their heritage also includes people from across the sea. Might have nothing to do with Cyril's background tho.

There was a study done on the genome of indigenous people in the NT and some had up to 11% of their genes traced back to India, suggested there were multiple waves of migration to Australia over a long period of time. They also said Dingos are likely descendants of Indian dogs they probably brought with them as they are genetically similar.

It is fascinating how humans evolved over time and adapted to different environments.

 

[ferball]

If Stringer gets to Giant's, along with Hogan, Cadman, Brown, etc, Riccardi might not be a regular senior player, worth a look ?

Only if he comes with a free parmi, parma, fried dimmie, steamed dimmie, reach around from Nate, Sam Squash, joint with Cam Pederson, Carl Peterson.... arrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!1!111111!!!!!!

 

[ferball]

There was a study done on the genome of indigenous people in the NT and some had up to 11% of their genes traced back to India, suggested there were multiple waves of migration to Australia over a long period of time. They also said Dingos are likely descendants of Indian dogs they probably brought with them as they are genetically similar.

It is fascinating how humans evolved over time and adapted to different environments.

There's also tests on dingos that tie them to PNG.

FWIW I've heard indigenous people from as far east as Northern NSW talk about a long series of conflicts with people from India as well as heaps of interbreeding as well, over millenia. Indian languages and some indigenous Australian languages also have similar sounding words, similar meaning words and similar sound structures from consonant structure.

 

[zoomba23]

I'm not saying that Shannon Ah Sam Rioli has acted in bad faith through any of this but Hawthorn seems to be. The fact that they put on record their account of her claiming an apology and resignation from Kennett and a pay rise for Cyril due to the torn jeans joke is leaning towards them accusing her of extortion.

Of course, the alternative is that she did something like that. I don't really have an opinion on that aspect either way because I think there are too many unknowns, and agree it'd be a hell of a ballsy move on such a flimsy case, but the nickname thing just screams bad faith to me. I've seen enough people, online and in real life, who seek out offence even if there's none to be found. It's an entire subset of the population these days. People on Reddit and female English teachers are two demographics firmly rooted in the grouping

 

[Tas]

Hawk was pulled from do-or-die final after drug use, club alleges​

By Peter Ryan​

October 10, 2024 — 1.57pm



Hawthorn claim they pulled Carl Peterson from the 2010 elimination final against Fremantle after his partner informed them he had used marijuana in the week leading up to the game, according to their defence lodged in the Federal Court.

The Hawks also claim that Peterson returned from a trip during the 2009 mid-season break incoherent and appearing to be affected by alcohol or illicit substances. Peterson also allegedly advised a club official he had no money in his bank account and had lost his clothing.

Carl Peterson during his last season with the Hawks.Credit: Sebastian Costanzo

In the document, which is a response to a statement of claim from ex-Hawks Cyril Rioli, Peterson and others, Hawthorn also denied a meeting between Peterson, Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt – where Clarkson was alleged to have suggested Peterson’s partner should terminate a pregnancy – ever took place.

The filing of Hawthorn’s defence is the latest development in the Federal Court action lodged against the football club, arising from allegations contained in the Hawks’ 2022 cultural safety review.

The defence also argues that Rioli signed a deed of release with Hawthorn at the time of his retirement in 2018 that precludes him from taking Federal Court action. It also states that the champion Hawk received “valuable consideration” from Hawthorn at that time.

Hawthorn argue “the proceeding is an abuse of process due to the delay by the applicants in commencing the proceeding”.

Cyril Rioli in full flight for the Hawks in 2012.Credit: Sebastian Costanzo

In the defence, Hawthorn say they recruited Peterson at the end of 2008 despite “concerns relating to his drug use and his failure of a voluntary drug test in or around that time” being raised by the club’s recruiting team.

Peterson lived with a host family and welfare staff including Burt and David Flood until early 2009 when he moved in with his partner Nikita Rotumah. He was delisted in October 2010.


Hawthorn deny that a meeting – at which Peterson alleged in the statement of claim that Clarkson said words to the effect of “unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy” – ever happened.

The document “denies that any meeting with the coaches occurred after Peterson informed Burt that Rotumah was pregnant”. It says that Fagan, Burt and Clarkson first became aware the pair were expecting a baby when Peterson announced the news to teammates in late July or early August and any of their actions before that point occurred without any awareness his partner was pregnant.

The Hawks also deny the following allegations from the statement of claim:

• That Peterson told Clarkson and Burt that he had told Rotumah it was not a good idea to have the baby or for them to see each other
• That Clarkson and Burt told Peterson words to the effect that he would stay at Burt’s house for a few days
• That Burt drove Peterson to his house, and on the way purchases a SIM card and told Peterson words to the effect that it would be best that Peterson was not able to communicate with his family any more so he could be 100 per cent focused on his training

Burt, Clarkson and Fagan have denied all the allegations against them, which were initially aired in the cultural safety review and made public by the ABC in grand final week of 2022.

Peterson eventually moved back with Rotumah in early 2010 and their baby was born in February 2010.

More to come

I remember raising this at the time this first came out when they talked about how important family is, I said there is a possibility that the player regretted getting his partner pregnant at the time as it would radically change his life/social life and might have used the club as an excuse to try and get her to terminate.

Sometimes when you spin a web of lies and it goes out of control you almost can't pull back, you are in too deep and you just continue to spiral down the abyss because you were too afraid to face the consequences or take responsibility of your words/actions.

I am guessing this saga involving him was when the Hawthorn investigation spoke to his partner and she came out with these claims based on things he said to her. I was thinking of ways someone could be telling the truth, based on what they understand are the facts, and still be wrong.

Not suggesting that is how it went down, but was trying to explain to some morons on the main board how she and Clarkson could both pass a lie detector test with two totally different accounts. It is why courts generally do not allow hearsay as evidence, because reality can get distorted.

 

[DuckYeah]

Or people looking to be offended will find it anywhere.

Saying that, if Rioli commented to clarkson and said he didn't like it and he kept on saying it then that would be a problem

 

[Tas]

There's also tests on dingos that tie them to PNG.

FWIW I've heard indigenous people from as far east as Northern NSW talk about a long series of conflicts with people from India as well as heaps of interbreeding as well, over millenia. Indian languages and some indigenous Australian languages also have similar sounding words, similar meaning words and similar sound structures from consonant structure.

Not surprising. I think they estimated we were connected to PNG up until 8,000 years ago and at low sea levels there was only a stretch of about 90km or so that that they had to cross. Eventually sea levels rose high enough that it was no longer possible without boats and it was probably too hard to migrate in any significant numbers by boat until the more modern days.

 

[koshari]

Fat Cat called someone Humphrey?!

Humphrey is generally a comment directed to someone who doesn't talk a lot. Not saying if its appropriate or not but its definitely not a racist remark when used in the common manner.

 

[gerry101101]

If you were called Humphrey B Bear it was usually in reference to having a quiet or shy personality. Matthew Kruezer was called Humphrey at the Blues because of his quiet nature.

Clearly Clarkson was commenting on Cyril’s reluctance to wear pants. It’s a very pantsist comment. Expected more from Clarko.

 

[koshari]

If you were called Humphrey B Bear it was usually in reference to having a quiet or shy personality. Matthew Kruezer was called Humphrey at the Blues because of his quiet nature.

I never saw this post but on isolation basically said the same thing

 

[Topparoo]

I guess it's like the torn jeans stuff from Kennett. If you're not conscious of cultural sensitivities you can cause genuine offense. That's 2-from-2 for the Riolis. I wonder if a genuine acknowledgement and apology has been extended to them, and if that would have been enough

I guess it's like the torn jeans stuff from Kennett. If you're not conscious of cultural sensitivities you can cause genuine offense. That's 2-from-2 for the Riolis. I wonder if a genuine acknowledgement and apology has been extended to them, and if that would have been enough?

Both situations could simply be explained as a generational issue. Perhaps Rioli didn't know HB Bear was so quiet? Perhaps he never watched him on tv? This does sound a little bit ridiculous trying to explain the misunderstanding. I know when my daughter wore her expensive torn jeans I would often make a crack about her falling off her skate board and that she should invest in knee pads. My parents' generation would think it ludicrous that someone would pay good money for torn jeans and be horrified that they would be worn on a night on the town. Lived experience when misunderstood can cause these sort of issues between generations.

 

[BigRedRoo]

I’d love to know if Peterson’s drug use came up in mediation. If yes, what did ABL do to satisfy themselves it either wasn’t true or would not be discrediting?

Also interested in why they would plead such obvious employment matters like Egan being a contractor or the nature of being on a rookie list.

He didn't show up to mediation, Fagan flew down from Brisbane and waited all day for him and nothing.

 

[LB2Snake]

There's also tests on dingos that tie them to PNG.

FWIW I've heard indigenous people from as far east as Northern NSW talk about a long series of conflicts with people from India as well as heaps of interbreeding as well, over millenia. Indian languages and some indigenous Australian languages also have similar sounding words, similar meaning words and similar sound structures from consonant structure.

How far back do the Indians go Ferbs? Pretty interesting.

 

[koshari]

Both situations could simply be explained as a generational issue. Perhaps Rioli didn't know HB Bear was so quiet? Perhaps he never watched him on tv? This does sound a little bit ridiculous trying to explain the misunderstanding. I know when my daughter wore her expensive torn jeans I would often make a crack about her falling off her skate board and that she should invest in knee pads. My parents' generation would think it ludicrous that someone would pay good money for torn jeans and be horrified that they would be worn on a night on the town. Lived experience when misunderstood can cause these sort of issues between generations.

I never read the Bible but i got a pretty good idea methusulith was old, some of these sayings areore popular than their origins, not happy jan is another one i suspent many wouldn't even recall came from a television commercial, same with marge the rains are here. Often when some statement enters the common vernacular its origins can become obscure. Evens saying Buckleys hope there is disagreement over its origins with some claiming the bushranger was the origin and others saying the department store of the same name is.

 

[koshari]

How far back do the Indians go Ferbs? Pretty interesting.

I suspect even they only became indians after earlier migration from africa.

 

[travelli]

If you were called Humphrey B Bear it was usually in reference to having a quiet or shy personality. Matthew Kruezer was called Humphrey at the Blues because of his quiet nature.

As opposed to Humphrey B Flaubert

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

I remember raising this at the time this first came out when they talked about how important family is, I said there is a possibility that the player regretted getting his partner pregnant at the time as it would radically change his life/social life and might have used the club as an excuse to try and get her to terminate.

Sometimes when you spin a web of lies and it goes out of control you almost can't pull back, you are in too deep and you just continue to spiral down the abyss because you were too afraid to face the consequences or take responsibility of your words/actions.

I am guessing this saga involving him was when the Hawthorn investigation spoke to his partner and she came out with these claims based on things he said to her. I was thinking of ways someone could be telling the truth, based on what they understand are the facts, and still be wrong.

Not suggesting that is how it went down, but was trying to explain to some morons on the main board how she and Clarkson could both pass a lie detector test with two totally different accounts. It is why courts generally do not allow hearsay as evidence, because reality can get distorted.

Yes and aside from the pregnancy matters, there's a strong sense that a player (not necessarily this one) may have been telling coaches that he wanted out of a relationship and the coaches acted in good faith to help him achieve this. Meanwhile, he may have been telling the partner that it was the coaches who were advising him to cut ties. It's an impossible situation if someone isn't being entirely honest.

One of the interesting drops in the Hawthorn response is the allegation that it was the partner who revealed to the club that the player had been smoking weed the week of an elimination final resulting in him being dropped from the team and delisted at season's end. I wonder if that is news to the player.

 

[Orange Peanut]

I never read the Bible but i got a pretty good idea methusulith was old, some of these sayings areore popular than their origins, not happy jan is another one i suspent many wouldn't even recall came from a television commercial, same with marge the rains are here. Often when some statement enters the common vernacular its origins can become obscure. Evens saying Buckleys hope there is disagreement over its origins with some claiming the bushranger was the origin and others saying the department store of the same name is.

"You've got Buckley's hope" referred to the bushranger.
It evolved to
"You've got 2 chances... Buckley's and Nunn" using the department store as a clever reference.

Source: my Grandfather, who would be in triple digits if he was still with us and knew everything about Melbourne folklore (as far as I could tell).