Fixture Changes Bulldogs v Bomberos

[Next Waiting]

Fair comment NW although you’re correct that I won’t agree with some of it.

You’ve named five elite line-breaking players but Treloar and Smith surely don’t have to be the equal of those five to justify their own existence. It’s a flawed comparison in my view. On that measure few others anywhere in the league would qualify. And to press the point, who have those clubs got that can match the muscular line breaking ability of Bont? Not all midfields have to be identically endowed to be effective.

I certainly agree that lack of speed through the middle IS a big problem. It has been exacerbated by the simultaneous injuries / form drops to Treloar and Smith but it urgently needs to be addressed in the off season.

Treloar’s career has peaked and he won’t get any better but I’d argue he still has a lot to offer this year and probably in 2024 … when fit.

Smith is still young and has been our great midfield hope since he was drafted, especially with his good form as a 19-20yo. He still has that potential but he has stagnated.

I was shouted down when I said if we can’t get the best out of him (or a close version of his best) that we’d be better off getting a top 6-8 pick in a trade for him. I still think that’s true but I repeat that’s contingent on us not being able to develop him when he’s fully fit.

In the best of worlds we do keep him and turn him into that elite line breaking speedy midfielder with vision and accurate disposal and a strong defensive capability that we all crave. We probably have a year or maybe two to get that right, but the sooner the better. I’m just not terribly confident the current bunch in charge are the ones who can do it (but that’s a separate debate!)

TBF, I stopped at those 5 coz I'd said a dozen and I'd already got 5 from 2 teams with another 15 teams to go........

Agree about Bont. He's in his own category. And I'm more than OK with Libba and fine with Daniel and Macrae.

At this stage (I think I'm in the 5th stage of acceptance of lack of midfield pace) embracing our slower but better ball users with a left field twist adding Williams to the mix.

Another possibility would be to play Sweet and manufacture a brutalising tagger to take the 5th spot. Take the whole thing down into the trenches or out to the back alley. Timmy would do the team thing and play 100% game time as the fwd ruck....this season.

Treloar may have something to offer but it's not enough and it won't be IMO. I'm OK not seeing Smith again this year and que sera sera in the off season.

 

[Smiley Boy]

Where’s this Treloar hate coming from? He’s been great for us this year… morons

 

[AFDogs]

Where’s this Treloar hate coming from? He’s been great for us this year… morons

Was going to post exactly this. Leaving this thread now after seeing such stupidity.

Smith IN. McNeill OUT.

Bye.

 

[Smiley Boy]

Was going to post exactly this. Leaving this thread now after seeing such stupidity.

Smith IN. McNeill OUT.

Bye.

JJ also very likely to come in

 

[Next Waiting]

Where’s this Treloar hate coming from? He’s been great for us this year… morons

A bit hyperbolic. What are you, a "journalist"?

 

[Next Waiting]

A bit harsh I reckon NW. There are reports both are playing with injuries, illness, or whatever.

You may not subscribe to it but the Ching is a useful (if rough) guide to form. Treloar was voted third or fourth best player for us in each game from round 13-16 (as well as three vote-winning performances earlier in the season including a BoG). That run of four games with votes included wins as well as losses, so he’s not just a flat track bully. Until the Collingwood game Treloar was averaging 5.5 tackles a game, higher than any season since 2017 (his 2nd year with the Pies). He has also been averaging 11.67 CPs this year, his best return as a WB player.

If you believe reports, he has been playing with some niggles in his last two games. An injured player will often look slow, sloppy or half-arsed.

It’s a little more complex with Smith. He was running into some form with votes in successive games in Rounds 8-10 culminating in a BoG against Adelaide. But no votes since then. His defensive and disposal weaknesses have been much discussed but they are nothing new. Again there have been reports of injury and illness. I acknowledge though that Smith’s form has been erratic since mid-2022.

Who do we blame if they play when ill or injured? Seems like a lot are blaming the player. I’d have thought the primary responsibility lay with our medical staff. There’d be a little more proportion of the blame on the player if he has been less than honest about his condition … but have we any evidence of that?

Warning: The following contains some research, facts and analysis and is devoid of hyperbolic language and personal slanders on other posters who may disagree or have an alternative view. "Journalist" and viewer discretion is advised.

I do enjoy our chats DW and your reference to Ching made me think. I put a lot of store in the Coaches' Votes. In my view, it goes to influence on and contribution to the result of the match.

So I have cherry picked games against the Top 4 teams plus Geelong who loom as a threat and possibly end up 5th.

Here are our coaches votes accumulators from those games



And here are the opposition coaches' votes from those same games



In both tables, mids and ruck are lumped together and highlighted in orange.

What we can see is that, on average, opposition mids and rucks out point us by 50% in these games. On average, opposition mids and rucks account for 31% of the total votes whilst our own mids and rucks account for 20%. It's reasonable to assume that all these teams are the ones that have to beaten in finals to win.

All our mids have been found to have had some influence in at least one game against these sides with Timmy (3 times) and Bont (2 times) being the two better performers. There are notable absentees from this list, however. Adam Treloar and *Bailey Smith have yet to appear in the coaches votes against serious opposition. Macrae wasn't considered given his limited exposure to stoppages this season.

An interesting appearance is JUH, who, whilst not a mid, has made 2 telling contributions against this quality of opposition.

If we are looking to make an impact in September, it's worthwhile, in my view, considering alternatives to the least impactful midfielders in these types of games.

*Smith didn't play in Rnd 5 v Port

 

[doggies ftw]

Where’s this Treloar hate coming from? He’s been great for us this year… morons

Don’t forget Smiles, these are probably the same people that claimed we should trade Naughty and he wouldn’t be a big loss because he had a quiet month. The same people that have now moved their attention to trading Baz.

Idiots everywhere

 

[Golden_6]

Geez JJ coming in scares the living daylights out of me. Someone with his soft tissue history returning slightly ahead of schedule with no matchplay under his belt.

There is also the chance that the initial timeline was intentionally overly conservative so he could track his rehab at his own pace. Even in last weeks injury report he was listed as 2-3 weeks away.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Where’s this Treloar hate coming from? He’s been great for us this year… morons

One bad game last week is all it takes lol

 

[Unorth]

Geez JJ coming in scares the living daylights out of me. Someone with his soft tissue history returning slightly ahead of schedule with no matchplay under his belt.

There is also the chance that the initial timeline was intentionally overly conservative so he could track his rehab at his own pace. Even in last weeks injury report he was listed as 2-3 weeks away.

Our season is on the brink and presumably certain jobs are on the line, not surprising they would rush JJ back in. We’ll do the same with Jonesy. It’s all or nothing for the rest of the season.

 

[Cudi]

Out: Darcy, JOD, Vandermeer , McNeil
In: Lobb, Busslinger, JJ, Smith
SUB: Garcia

 

[MYOB]

JJ is not playing this week

 

[dogwatch]

Warning: The following contains some research, facts and analysis and is devoid of hyperbolic language and personal slanders on other posters who may disagree or have an alternative view. "Journalist" and viewer discretion is advised.

I do enjoy our chats DW and your reference to Ching made me think. I put a lot of store in the Coaches' Votes. In my view, it goes to influence on and contribution to the result of the match.

So I have cherry picked games against the Top 4 teams plus Geelong who loom as a threat and possibly end up 5th.

Here are our coaches votes accumulators from those games

View attachment 1740994

And here are the opposition coaches' votes from those same games

View attachment 1741017

In both tables, mids and ruck are lumped together and highlighted in orange.

What we can see is that, on average, opposition mids and rucks out point us by 50% in these games. On average, opposition mids and rucks account for 31% of the total votes whilst our own mids and rucks account for 20%. It's reasonable to assume that all these teams are the ones that have to beaten in finals to win.

All our mids have been found to have had some influence in at least one game against these sides with Timmy (3 times) and Bont (2 times) being the two better performers. There are notable absentees from this list, however. Adam Treloar and *Bailey Smith have yet to appear in the coaches votes against serious opposition. Macrae wasn't considered given his limited exposure to stoppages this season.

An interesting appearance is JUH, who, whilst not a mid, has made 2 telling contributions against this quality of opposition.

If we are looking to make an impact in September, it's worthwhile, in my view, considering alternatives to the least impactful midfielders in these types of games.

*Smith didn't play in Rnd 5 v Port

Good stuff. Nice to see a different view presented that is devoid of words like “stupid”, “brain dead” and “NFI”.

And researched too! You’ll give this place a bad name if you’re not careful.

I’m on the road today so I’ll need to get back to you in a couple of days.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

JJ is not playing this week

I spoke with JJ on the weekend, he said if he got through high speed sprinting this week, he’d put his hand up for selection, last week, he ticked off every other box except for high-speed sprinting.

So unless something has happened at training this morning, he could still be an in.

 

[Mutt]

Ok - tone down the abusive rhetoric on here. No need to call others "clowns" and the like.

 

[Smiley Boy]

McNeil is out with delayed concussion

 

[Dog 36]

Will Draper play for the Bumbers this week?

 

[Doggy]

Will Draper play for the Bumbers this week?

No

 

[Next Waiting]

Good stuff. Nice to see a different view presented that is devoid of words like “stupid”, “brain dead” and “NFI”.

And researched too! You’ll give this place a bad name if you’re not careful.

I’m on the road today so I’ll need to get back to you in a couple of days.

One has a social duty to be the change one would like to see in others.

I don't blame "journalists" and others for their moderate education. I'm here to help.

Let's start with Frankl. “Between the stimulus and response, there is a space. And in that space lies our freedom and power to choose our responses. In our response lies our growth and our freedom” (Frankl, 1946).

That's enough for one day. In the days ahead we can can tackle the concept of research, original thought and the big one .... initiative ...what the hell is that I hear some ask? Let's just say that if you have any, you will have already looked it up in the dictionary on google.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Keen for a Gallagher and Buss debut.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[dogwatch]

One has a social duty to be the change one would like to see in others.

I don't blame "journalists" and others for their moderate education. I'm here to help.

Let's start with Frankl. “Between the stimulus and response, there is a space. And in that space lies our freedom and power to choose our responses. In our response lies our growth and our freedom” (Frankl, 1946).

That's enough for one day. In the days ahead we can can tackle the concept of research, original thought and the big one .... initiative ...what the hell is that I hear some ask? Let's just say that if you have any, you will have already looked it up in the dictionary on google.

If any of you masochists who insist on watching midweek footy shows hears some pundit mumbling about “the space between the stimulus and the response” please report back to NW immediately. It will be incontrovertible proof …

 

[X_box_X]

Where’s this Treloar hate coming from? He’s been great for us this year… morons

I hope no one is suggesting he should be dropped because of two poor weeks. I haven't read the first four pages.

Treloar's best game for us was 2022 v Collingwood. If he replicates that performance last week, we would have beaten Collingwood.

We need our A Graders firing so dropping him is silly. He is a proven performer and it's unlikely you'll see him play three poor games in a row. He still got plenty of the ball. He was well below par in terms of execution. He'll make amends for that. Dropping him to the VFL will only make matters worse. He needs confidence and we know we can rely on him to be super efficient so he 100% stays in and remains one of our most important players because of the POD he provides.

 

[X_box_X]

Keath and Ed Red set to play their 100th game this week.

 

[coxman]

Would love to see busslinger debut

 

[Smiley Boy]

Jones & JJ back next week

Jones is confirmed to be Wolverine